Help! - 6 year old daughter Misbehaving in School

"Billy" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 8, 10:47 pm, "deja.blues" wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

oups.com...

My 6 year old daughter is in Kidnergarden in a catholic pre-school and
we are receiving reports that she is being disobedient, disrespectful,
agressive and fighting with other students, etc. The teacher has no
suggesstions. We have no answers. We don't even have no clue on how to
correct this and need help and experience wherever we can find it!

Find another school now. Put her in public school, where the teachers
have
better education and aren't allowed to abuse children physically and
mentally. Discipline and adherence to order is *way* overemphasized in
Catholic school, and there's no room for kids that learn differently.
BTDT.

I want to do this, but it seems not feasible. I dont know if I can
walk into my town's schools kindergarden (half days only - the reason
for putting her in the catholic school) tomorrow and say "my
daughter's starting on Monday and finishing her year here". I dont
know if that is possible. I'm going to make some calls and visits
tomorrow Did you ever hear of that happening?

It is possible. The public school is obligated to enroll a child, anytime.
The district has to keep records of all children anyway, your kids are
already known to the public school. You absolutely can walk in one day,
enroll, and have your child in school the next day.

Several years ago, my two younger kids were ejected from Catholic school
(our oldest had already begun 8th grade in public school ). One was in
kindergarten, the other was in 6th grade. We were in the process of
declaring bankruptcy and missed two months tuition. They went one day on the
bus as usual, were immediately sent to the office, and we were called to
come get them. It was ugly. This happened in May, almost the end of the
school year. We had them in public school the very next day.

It was an adjustment, especially for the 6th grader , but public school is
the best thing that ever happened to them.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

"Billy" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 8, 9:07 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

oups.com...





My 6 year old daughter is in Kidnergarden in a catholic pre-school and
we are receiving reports that she is being disobedient, disrespectful,
agressive and fighting with other students, etc. The teacher has no
suggesstions. We have no answers. We don't even have no clue on how to
correct this and need help and experience wherever we can find it!

The school is all nuns who come from predominatly the Phillapines and
India, and a couple from Italy. The appear very gentle and respectful,
as we always loved the school. It is an expensive school and highly
recommended in the area. I gather their background comes from strict
discipline, and devout religiousness.

You Need to Understand The History (to help paint the picture)........

She is just about 6 years old and has attended the school since she
was 2 1/2 years, and has always behaved fairly well with the other
teachers (all nuns) as she progressed through four differant
classes.....until just the past month. She was no angel, but just
minor incidents all kids get into. As she progressed through the
grades, things became more difficult.

- She always cried every day that we dropped her off in her 2 1/2 to 3
1/2 year old class. She would always cling to us before we left her.
Many of the kids did this, but my daughter more consistently.

- She cried less but was still clingy in her 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 year old
class, where things started getting a bit tougher. I noticed her
teacher tugging her arm very/very hard one day when I arrived to pick
her up. When the techer turned and saw me observe this, she was
embarrassed, but I let it go. I did write a letter anonymously to the
school about it. The following year, the teacher was reportedly
transferred to the "sister" school a few towns away. Was it because of
this or other similar complaints I don't know.

my then 2 year old son now begins going to the same school with all
the nuns, because I find at the daycare we are sending him to that he
is being neglegted - thrown in a crib with other kids unfree to roam
while the two babysitters sit in rocking chairs and converse, never
changed right, etc. He does extremely well now until just before the
beginning of this year where there was a period of him being
intolerable, but that has since subsided. He is also now just potty
trained in th past month making their job easier.

- In her 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 year old class, there was an incident in which
I arrived in the school one day early to find my daughter under a
table and the teacher's aide was pulling at her arm very agressively.
The primary teacher was out of the school. This was an unpleasant
suprise that was discovered when I opened the closed door of the
classroom. When I approached my daughter, and the teacher's aide, my
daughter had nail marks on her arm, was bleeding from the scratches,
all red marks around all parts of her arm, and was crying
hysterically. I went right to the head nun who runs the school and she
observed the nail marks and redness, etc. One week later, that
teacher's aid was gone - sent back to India. There was no mention as
to the reason, but we knew why....so did all the other sisters I
suppose.

- Now in her present 5 1/2 to 6 1/2 year old class she's been great
the first half of the time, but now nearing the strech of her pre-
school and Kinnergarden graduation, the teacher is reporting all of
this odd behavior. It all started in January until present. My
daughter is reportedly "leading" the class into disruption, making
paper airplanes and leading the class into not paying attention to
learning, not listening to teachers or the authority, and today had a
fight with a boy who she says kicked her - she scratched him, bopped
his sister and another girl who apparently were trying to break it up.
The kids have scratches, etc. All of these things happen consistently
when the teacher's aides are supervising, year after year, never when
the primary teacher is present. However, this teacher keeps making
assumptions based on the children's and aides feedback as whom to
blame for the rutger. It is always my daughter who is responsible.

Anyone with suggestions or experiences we would be grateful. We want
her to be prapared for her public school 1st grade transition with
proper discipline.

It appears something changed in the last month or so. Maybe a student in
the
class left 3 weeks ago and she is acting out because of this. Maybe she
is
upset that she can't go out because of the frigid weather. Maybe
something
changed at home. Maybe there is a new aide, teacher or other staff
member
or student who bothers her.

The other thing is that you said that her problems at the school have
gotten
worse over the years. I am wondering if the school is the right school
for
her. Maybe she would do better at a Montessori school, a Lutheran school
or,
a Quaker school or, Heaven forbid, a public school.

If you haven't, I would discuss your daughter's behavior with her. Maybe
she
can give you some clues. Also, go and talk to the principal, with the
idea
that there is a problem and you want to work with the school *together*
to
solve.

Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, something has changed. She is being given a rough ciriculum that
has increased steadily through the past few months. She is learning to
add numbers, read books, 7 pages of homework 3 times aweek, etc. My
wife thinks this is the cause, the transition from "play" to "work",
but I do not agree. I dont know if this is now typical in the K grade,
to be reading books and add and subtract.

My guess is that she is having difficulty with the material and is acting
out. A lot of times, kids get frustrated and act out. IF that is the case,
you need to work together to help deal with her frustrations and to keep up
with the other kids. Of course, they should have caught this and been
working with you, if this is the case. But, it happened. The key is to help
her, not to blame people.

Jeff

"bizby40" wrote in message
news

"Billy" wrote in message
ups.com...
I want to do this, but it seems not feasible. I dont know if I can
walk into my town's schools kindergarden (half days only - the reason
for putting her in the catholic school) tomorrow and say "my
daughter's starting on Monday and finishing her year here". I dont
know if that is possible. I'm going to make some calls and visits
tomorrow Did you ever hear of that happening?

People transfer into public schools all the time after moves and so forth.
You just fill out the paperwork, and in she'll go.

Bizby

In New York City, you can go to a school, sign her up and she will be in
school the next day, by law. And it has to be a school in her neighborhood.
The law is for people moving into the area, but, it should apply in this
situation. I suspect that in most places in the US, they have to let her
start in the middle of the school year, too.

Jeff

"Billy" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 8, 8:01 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
...

Thanks. I can't say that she is too good at home. She fights with her
3 year old brother often. Very possessive, not sharing, agressive,
domineering. Odd since she is only 35 lbs - the same weight as him. I
think the school is somewhat right but your comment about ther
classroom management being their job is where the heart of the matter
is. What I don't do right at home is my fault. What they don't do
right at school is their fault.

These are common issues (not sharing, especially). You need to work on this
and the other issues, at home, rtegardless of what happens in school
tomorrow.

The teacher continues to bring up the fact that she can not discipline
my daughter because of the incident they all know of where the
teacher's aide that was fired due to her manhandling my daughter.

It's almost like they want permission to physically maintain her, yet
they persistently state that they would never hit the kids, that it
isn't right. Very hipocritical, IMO.

It sounds like the form of discipline that is being used is not right for
her (or anyone else, IMHO). There are good forms of discipline and classroom
management that stress rewards over punishment. And they don't require
physical contact, at all. If what you say about the teachers and their
reaction to you get a aide removed for physical abuse is correct, she will
never be able to get a good education there. In fact, if they are unable to
control your daughter because they are afraid that you will get them in
trouble for hitting her, that is a good sign that you should not be sending
her there at all.

In NY state and other states, corporal punishment in any form by schools and
teachers is illegal.

Jeff

"Billy" wrote in message
ups.com...
I want to do this, but it seems not feasible. I dont know if I can
walk into my town's schools kindergarden (half days only - the reason
for putting her in the catholic school) tomorrow and say "my
daughter's starting on Monday and finishing her year here". I dont
know if that is possible. I'm going to make some calls and visits
tomorrow Did you ever hear of that happening?


Where do you live? That absolutely sounds reasonable here. If the school
is full, they find space elsewhere, but any child can enroll in public
kindergarten anytime. Otherwise, people who move midyear would not be able
to enroll their kids. Of course, it is much better to start at the
beginning of the year, but not a problem to start midyear.

My take - maybe just not the right school for her. It can be a
conflict with a teacher, or with the entire philosphy/approach of the
school.

My middle kid had a teacher in grade 1 who was oil and water with him.
She was a very strict disciplinarian, very cold, and she liked very
quiet children who sat and colored between the lines - and our kid was
the youngest in the class, very young for his age, and pretty
exuberant. The whole year was just awful, and we didn't really realize
how much of what was going on was the fact that she and him just
weren't a good match. The next year, he had a very lovely, gentle man,
who was actually very maternal - and my son just absolutely adored the
guy, and there was a total turn around of the situation. He was
happier, he behaved better, he did better.

M.

In article v_Syh.6309$hH2.1348@trnddc02, Jeff says...


"bizby40" wrote in message
news

"Billy" wrote in message
ups.com...
I want to do this, but it seems not feasible. I dont know if I can
walk into my town's schools kindergarden (half days only - the reason
for putting her in the catholic school) tomorrow and say "my
daughter's starting on Monday and finishing her year here". I dont
know if that is possible. I'm going to make some calls and visits
tomorrow Did you ever hear of that happening?

People transfer into public schools all the time after moves and so forth.
You just fill out the paperwork, and in she'll go.

Bizby

In New York City, you can go to a school, sign her up and she will be in
school the next day, by law. And it has to be a school in her neighborhood.
The law is for people moving into the area, but, it should apply in this
situation. I suspect that in most places in the US, they have to let her
start in the middle of the school year, too.


Yep. They're there to serve the public education needs. People move in, too,
in the middle of the year. This kind of transfer in is rather ordinary and
expected.

Banty

On 8 Feb 2007 20:02:12 -0800, "Billy" wrote:

I want to do this, but it seems not feasible. I dont know if I can
walk into my town's schools kindergarden (half days only - the reason
for putting her in the catholic school) tomorrow and say "my
daughter's starting on Monday and finishing her year here". I dont
know if that is possible. I'm going to make some calls and visits
tomorrow Did you ever hear of that happening?

Absolutely. You can go to the public school whose district you live
in and enroll her in the office. They'll require certain paperwork
and immunization records, but she can start school without having it
all done beforehand.
The school she's attending sounds way too abusive in their discipline
methods.

Nan

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article v_Syh.6309$hH2.1348@trnddc02, Jeff says...


"bizby40" wrote in message
news

"Billy" wrote in message
ups.com...
I want to do this, but it seems not feasible. I dont know if I can
walk into my town's schools kindergarden (half days only - the reason
for putting her in the catholic school) tomorrow and say "my
daughter's starting on Monday and finishing her year here". I dont
know if that is possible. I'm going to make some calls and visits
tomorrow Did you ever hear of that happening?

People transfer into public schools all the time after moves and so
forth.
You just fill out the paperwork, and in she'll go.

Bizby

In New York City, you can go to a school, sign her up and she will be in
school the next day, by law. And it has to be a school in her
neighborhood.
The law is for people moving into the area, but, it should apply in this
situation. I suspect that in most places in the US, they have to let her
start in the middle of the school year, too.


Yep. They're there to serve the public education needs.

I am not so sure about that. They hired a prinicpal in 2005. He closed a
school in the middle of the school year without warning previously. Turns
out, it was because he learned the school district was investigating his
school's finances. The early closure and the fact that his staff protested
several times to have him removed should have been red flags. A check on
the accurace of the jobs he reported would have been another red flag. He is
now in jail for fraud.

The NYC DOE did a study of how to improve bus efficency of kids. The study
cost a reasonable $17M (considering that the bussing budget is many times
that.) They found ways to rearrange the bussing to save $12M a year. So they
implemented that in the middle of the school year to save $6M this school
year. Siblings going to the same school were assigned to different buses. A
lot of kids were not assigned to any bus.

The guideline's cutoff for being bused is 1/2 mile. A kindergarten kid lived
about 2630 ft. from school (just under the cutoff). But he had to cross 8
lanes of traffic at one intersection. The mayor said that he won't allow the
kid to be bused. I guess the mayor doesn't understand the difference between
guidelines and rules or the danger of little kids cross several lanes of
traffic. Personally, I think the mayor and chancellor should be assigned one
kid each to help with homework, get to and from school, etc. Maybe they
would get a clue.

NYC had a system of about 35 school districts organized into 10 regions. The
city decided to do away with the regions, leaving the school district
superintendents to report directly to the head of the department, the
chancelor. There was no discussion at all with the teacher's union or any
parent groups about this. And the plan left high school principals with no
organization above them. They also gave more independence to principals, all
without consulting parents or teachers.

The NYC DOE still has failing schools. A lot of these schools don't have any
after school programs. And these are the schools whose students most need
afterschool programs.

I get the feeling that some adminstrators are in business to bring in their
$150,000+ salaries, not to help kids.

Jeff

People move in, too,
in the middle of the year. This kind of transfer in is rather ordinary and
expected.

Banty

Billy wrote:

Thanks. I can't say that she is too good at home. She fights with her
3 year old brother often. Very possessive, not sharing, agressive,
domineering. Odd since she is only 35 lbs - the same weight as him. I
think the school is somewhat right but your comment about ther
classroom management being their job is where the heart of the matter
is. What I don't do right at home is my fault. What they don't do
right at school is their fault.

The teacher continues to bring up the fact that she can not discipline
my daughter because of the incident they all know of where the
teacher's aide that was fired due to her manhandling my daughter.

It's almost like they want permission to physically maintain her, yet
they persistently state that they would never hit the kids, that it
isn't right. Very hipocritical, IMO.

So why keep your children in this school? I know it's
not as easy as snapping your fingers to take them out, but
I would not be comfortable at all with that situation, and i
sure as heck wouldn't be comfortable paying top dollar for it!
If she's challenging at home, then you do need to
get on top of that. It's not easy. There are lots of books
out there, and you could post a thread asking for help with
challenging children here and get a bunch of references to
help you out. You have to be firm and consistent. However,
it is generally understood that physically manhandling these
kids into compliance does *not* work, so if the school can't
bring anything more to the table than physical restraint,
they surely aren't the people to help your daughter through
this.
You have to take ownership where you can, but with
a challenging child, it simply doesn't work for the school
to say, "you fix it at home--we're not going to address it
at school." If you really work at things at home, it will
probably help the school situation, but it likely won't
fix it. Kids are too smart. They know where and with
whom they can get away with stuff, but especially at your
daughter's age, consequences that don't come until she's
home from school are far too delayed to be truly effective.

Best wishes,
Ericka