Help! - 6 year old daughter Misbehaving in School

In article WA_yh.37540$5U4.27826@trnddc07, Jeff says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article v_Syh.6309$hH2.1348@trnddc02, Jeff says...


"bizby40" wrote in message
news
"Billy" wrote in message
ups.com...
I want to do this, but it seems not feasible. I dont know if I can
walk into my town's schools kindergarden (half days only - the reason
for putting her in the catholic school) tomorrow and say "my
daughter's starting on Monday and finishing her year here". I dont
know if that is possible. I'm going to make some calls and visits
tomorrow Did you ever hear of that happening?

People transfer into public schools all the time after moves and so
forth.
You just fill out the paperwork, and in she'll go.

Bizby

In New York City, you can go to a school, sign her up and she will be in
school the next day, by law. And it has to be a school in her
neighborhood.
The law is for people moving into the area, but, it should apply in this
situation. I suspect that in most places in the US, they have to let her
start in the middle of the school year, too.


Yep. They're there to serve the public education needs.

I am not so sure about that.

::snip long list of complaints about NYC schools::

Sigh...

Now, did I say "there to serve the public educations needs, perfectly, and
without fraud in any of the tens of thousands of districts in the US, and in a
manner that suits everybody"???

No.

Not to take anything away from what you said. But there is folly, incompetence,
fraud, and abuse, everywhere.

But the schools ARE set up for the public good, at the public service, and that
is exactly why they can have students walk in one day and start. This poster,
used to the private arrangement, didn't quite understand exactly what it means
to have something truly public to turn to. That's my point.

Banty

"deja.blues" wrote in message
news:CVSyh.3084$da1.408@trndny03...
...

It is possible. The public school is obligated to enroll a child, anytime.
The district has to keep records of all children anyway, your kids are
already known to the public school. You absolutely can walk in one day,
enroll, and have your child in school the next day.

I don't think it is true all school districts have to track kids outside
their schools. NYC DOE has enough problems tracking their own kids. They
don't even get IEPs to schools until several months into school when kids
transfer. In fact, some kids will go to different schools every year, just
so they don't know he was classified as special ed in the past. Why they
don't have these on computer with secure computer access, I don't know. I
don't think the NYC DOE tracks kids outside their schools.

If a kid has been in the public school in the same district in the past,
they should have a record on the kid. If a kid is home-schooled, there may
also be a record. But if a kid has gone to private school all his life,
there may not be a record. I imagine this varies from place to place.

A problem with moving into a large system like Philadelphia or NYC, is that
although kids have to be placed immediately in an appropriate program, if a
student should be in a public school for gifted kids or another special
program, placement is rarely available in the middle of the school year. In
addition, it may not be possible to get the kid into the gifted or special
school in the future, because some schools only admit kids at particular
grade levels. So, you're guaranteed to have the kid in school. It may not be
a good one.

If you live in a small school system, like the one I grew up in, with each
grade level until 7th grade in just two buildings, moving into or joining
the school system guarantees access to a good education. The obvious fix for
the big school systems is to make every school a good school. Easier said
than done.

Jeff

Billy wrote:

Yes, something has changed. She is being given a rough ciriculum that
has increased steadily through the past few months. She is learning to
add numbers, read books, 7 pages of homework 3 times aweek, etc. My
wife thinks this is the cause, the transition from "play" to "work",
but I do not agree. I dont know if this is now typical in the K grade,
to be reading books and add and subtract.

Kindergarten isn't what it used to be, however, that
seems a *little* advanced of what you'd normally see (at least
in my area). Many kids are reading and doing simple arithmetic
in kindergarten.
That said, your comment about "7 pages of homework"
makes me wonder if you're saying that they're sending home
worksheets? If so, that's not a good sign either. While,
sadly, homework is becoming more common, even in kindergarten
(despite no evidence that it is helpful in the long run),
endless rounds of worksheets generally aren't helpful for
*anyone*. And, of course, it's only likely to get worse
at this school as she gets older.

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Feb 9, 8:36 am, "Jeff" wrote:
"deja.blues" wrote in message

news:CVSyh.3084$da1.408@trndny03...
...

It is possible. The public school is obligated to enroll a child, anytime.
The district has to keep records of all children anyway, your kids are
already known to the public school. You absolutely can walk in one day,
enroll, and have your child in school the next day.

I don't think it is true all school districts have to track kids outside
their schools. NYC DOE has enough problems tracking their own kids. They
don't even get IEPs to schools until several months into school when kids
transfer. In fact, some kids will go to different schools every year, just
so they don't know he was classified as special ed in the past. Why they
don't have these on computer with secure computer access, I don't know. I
don't think the NYC DOE tracks kids outside their schools.

They do. Or at least they claim that they do. Don't forget, NYC
provides bus transportation to private school kids, provides special
needs services, and *loans* books to private schools. (I need to fill
out a request for book loans for text books each year.) It *is*
possible that if a NYC kid attends a private school outside of NYC, s/
he may not be known to the system. There's also the incompetence
factor, of course.

In terms of IEPs following kids, though ... rumor has it that the DOE
lost thousands upon thousands of files when it eliminated the
Community School Boards. The computer system still approves the RSA's
and pays for services, but the files attached to scheduling IEP
meetings and triennial evaluations are gone.


If a kid has been in the public school in the same district in the past,
they should have a record on the kid. If a kid is home-schooled, there may
also be a record. But if a kid has gone to private school all his life,
there may not be a record. I imagine this varies from place to place.

A problem with moving into a large system like Philadelphia or NYC, is that
although kids have to be placed immediately in an appropriate program, if a
student should be in a public school for gifted kids or another special
program, placement is rarely available in the middle of the school year. In
addition, it may not be possible to get the kid into the gifted or special
school in the future, because some schools only admit kids at particular
grade levels. So, you're guaranteed to have the kid in school. It may not be
a good one.

Also, AFAIK, there is no guarantee that it will be your local school.
Particularly with NCLB, a lot of better schools are overcrowded. A
mid-year transfer could require a child to be sent to a different
school.

Barbara

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article WA_yh.37540$5U4.27826@trnddc07, Jeff says...
...

::snip long list of complaints about NYC schools::

Sigh...

Now, did I say "there to serve the public educations needs, perfectly, and
without fraud in any of the tens of thousands of districts in the US, and
in a
manner that suits everybody"???

No.

Not to take anything away from what you said. But there is folly,
incompetence,
fraud, and abuse, everywhere.

But the schools ARE set up for the public good, at the public service, and
that
is exactly why they can have students walk in one day and start. This
poster,
used to the private arrangement, didn't quite understand exactly what it
means
to have something truly public to turn to. That's my point.

Banty

They are set up for the public good. The vast majority of people who work in
the schools do so to help kids.

If I wanted to make a point, it would be that every school has problems. New
teachers who need additional support, older teachers who are getting ready
to retire (or have retired, but still go to school every day so they will
get a bigger pension), overwhelmed administrators, kids who have more needs
than ever, ever changing rules and expectations of everyone, and students
who are just mismatches for the school or their teachers.

That means that every parent needs to go follow how their kids are doing in
school, talk to their kids and to their teacher, principal and the folks in
the PTA. They need to be really involved. And they need to speak up and take
action. That action might be a thank to the teacher and principal for doing
a good job or a request to transfer the kid to another class or school.
Their kids can't speak up for themselves.

Jeff

In article 181zh.26$E71.19@trnddc04, Jeff says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article WA_yh.37540$5U4.27826@trnddc07, Jeff says...
...

::snip long list of complaints about NYC schools::

Sigh...

Now, did I say "there to serve the public educations needs, perfectly, and
without fraud in any of the tens of thousands of districts in the US, and
in a
manner that suits everybody"???

No.

Not to take anything away from what you said. But there is folly,
incompetence,
fraud, and abuse, everywhere.

But the schools ARE set up for the public good, at the public service, and
that
is exactly why they can have students walk in one day and start. This
poster,
used to the private arrangement, didn't quite understand exactly what it
means
to have something truly public to turn to. That's my point.

Banty

They are set up for the public good. The vast majority of people who work in
the schools do so to help kids.

If I wanted to make a point, it would be that every school has problems. New
teachers who need additional support, older teachers who are getting ready
to retire (or have retired, but still go to school every day so they will
get a bigger pension), overwhelmed administrators, kids who have more needs
than ever, ever changing rules and expectations of everyone, and students
who are just mismatches for the school or their teachers.

That means that every parent needs to go follow how their kids are doing in
school, talk to their kids and to their teacher, principal and the folks in
the PTA. They need to be really involved. And they need to speak up and take
action. That action might be a thank to the teacher and principal for doing
a good job or a request to transfer the kid to another class or school.
Their kids can't speak up for themselves.


I'd agree with almost all of the above. I'd quarrel a bit if any school would
be in a position to let parents cherry-pick teachers, which is what a lot of
parents would do claiming a bad fit. Not that it's not a necessary thing to
transfer kids to another class sometimes, but that's a lot more often than
requested, and, man is there ever a hue and cry when administration applies
their discretion and says "no".

I went through *somewhat* a similar thing as the original poster in that I
enrolled my son into a private Montessori school for kindergarten. To get a
full-day kinder for one thing, but I was very open to having him complete the
three year primary school cycle there.

He didn't have quite the problems this girl had, but in several ways it was
apparent that the school wasn't a fit for him. The biggest thing being that he
didn't really take to the self-directed nature of the Montessori curriculum and
kinda floundered. So I put him in a public elementary school where he did
much better with the more traditional and more structured class there. It
wasn't perfect, but it was fairly good (and options are few in my area) and it
was available.

There's this false assumption out there (I think you agree as you have alluded
to) that private = better. Not necessarily, or even usually. And it depends
greatly on the particulars of the location and the child.

BTW, being in New York State the local school district did provide bus
transportation to the Montessori school, and also did provide speech evaluation
and therapy earlier (when he was three and four) as well. So even when we were
using a private school, the public education system was there for us.

Banty

Jeff wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article WA_yh.37540$5U4.27826@trnddc07, Jeff says...
...

::snip long list of complaints about NYC schools::

Sigh...

Now, did I say "there to serve the public educations needs, perfectly, and
without fraud in any of the tens of thousands of districts in the US, and
in a
manner that suits everybody"???

No.

Not to take anything away from what you said. But there is folly,
incompetence,
fraud, and abuse, everywhere.

But the schools ARE set up for the public good, at the public service, and
that
is exactly why they can have students walk in one day and start. This
poster,
used to the private arrangement, didn't quite understand exactly what it
means
to have something truly public to turn to. That's my point.

Banty

They are set up for the public good. The vast majority of people who work in
the schools do so to help kids.

If I wanted to make a point, it would be that every school has problems. New
teachers who need additional support, older teachers who are getting ready
to retire (or have retired, but still go to school every day so they will
get a bigger pension), overwhelmed administrators, kids who have more needs
than ever, ever changing rules and expectations of everyone, and students
who are just mismatches for the school or their teachers.

That means that every parent needs to go follow how their kids are doing in
school, talk to their kids and to their teacher, principal and the folks in
the PTA. They need to be really involved. And they need to speak up and take
action. That action might be a thank to the teacher and principal for doing
a good job or a request to transfer the kid to another class or school.
Their kids can't speak up for themselves.

Jeff



Couldn't you have just said so?

I wasn't sure where you were going in the previous post about NYC
schools. This clears it up!

"Jeanne" wrote in message
. ..
..


Couldn't you have just said so?

I wasn't sure where you were going in the previous post about NYC schools.
This clears it up!

I wasn't going anywhere. I was just ranting.

See, even when I don't realize it, there is reason to my madness.

Jeff

honestly, by the time I'd read through all the history, I didn't know what
to believe, I expect there are some kind of issues with your child at
school, but I doubt they are what the school is saying and I doubt they are
exclusively anyones fault, either school, parents, or an intrinisic
behavioural issue of a particular child.

I've not picked up why you haven't just put her into public kindergarten, or
whether the current kindergarten is full day or half day, maybe if it's full
day, then it's too much for her, or the program doesn't have enough variety
and chill out time, or maybe she finding the "work" a bit hard and is
reacting, either way, the fact the school has no idea or no suggestions, to
me is a very bad sign, whilst teachers don't have hours of free time to chat
to each parent, if there is a problem with a child, they need to watch that
child more closely for a while to see if they can see any causes, direct or
indirect, even if they can see no reason, they should still be able to
suggest management strategies and it does often have to be a mix of home and
school, sometimes you have to change something at home to make school work
and vice versa.

The way I see it is that she has to change kindergarten sooner rather than
later, I think this is beyond a specific problem that can be solved, it
seems to be a mismatch of a family and a school (and possibly deeper, the
school as a whole does not sound good to me), that is not going to be worked
through.

Anne

On Feb 9, 8:37 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Billy wrote:
Yes, something has changed. She is being given a rough ciriculum that
has increased steadily through the past few months. She is learning to
add numbers, read books, 7 pages ofhomework3 times aweek, etc. My
wife thinks this is the cause, the transition from "play" to "work",
but I do not agree. I dont know if this is now typical in the K grade,
to be reading books and add and subtract.

Kindergarten isn't what it used to be, however, that
seems a *little* advanced of what you'd normally see (at least
in my area). Many kids are reading and doing simple arithmetic
in kindergarten.
That said, your comment about "7 pages ofhomework"
makes me wonder if you're saying that they're sending home
worksheets? If so, that's not a good sign either. While,
sadly,homeworkis becoming more common, even in kindergarten
(despite no evidence that it is helpful in the long run),
endless rounds of worksheets generally aren't helpful for
*anyone*. And, of course, it's only likely to get worse
at this school as she gets older.

Best wishes,
Ericka

It's my perception as a clinical psychologist that the majority of
behavioral problems start as educational problems and are often caused
by the homework system. The problem with homework is that it is
content, not time based. I have no problem with teachers sending home
1, 2, 5, or 10 pages of work. I have a problem with teachers assuming
that a child in kindergarten should be doing more than ten minutes of
homework. In school, there is a clock. Regardless of what gets done,
a bell rings and the day is over. For homework, there is no clock.
With the grading system the way it is, parents feel great pressure
that everything must get done. We need a modified grading system and
clear time based standards on what children are expected to do when
they are home. Parents need final decision making authority about
what goes on under their roofs. Teachers then should feel completely
free to develop curricula as professionals, just with the awareness
that their authority over what is done at home needs to be limited
compared to their authority over what is done at school.
www.thehomeworkdoctor.com

Ken Goldberg