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#121
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote in message . net... Phil wrote: "Fred" wrote in message . net... Phil wrote: "Fred" wrote in message . net... teachrmama wrote: Second question: If it is reasonable for a man to know *all* the potential consequences of his actions, is it any less reasonable for women to also know, which negates abortion on demand as a reasonable response to accidental pregnancy? Your bigotry is getting in the way again. Abortion *is* one of the potential consequences. No it isn't! Sure it is! Your bigotry is distorting your understanding of the nature of consequences. Pregnancy can be a consequence of having sex. And abortion can be a consequence of pregnancy. Doesn't have to be, but it can be. It's one a of a range of possible consequences of pregnancy, others of which are adoption and carrying to term. All are consequences. Another choice is legal abandonment. All the post-conception choices are available to women while none are available to men so why are choices he is not allowed to make a consequence to the man? Because he is responsible for where his semen ends up. You didn't even attempt to answer the question. I did answer the question. You just don't want to recognize it, because to do so would mean that you are prepared to accept responsibility for your actions, and it is clear to me that, like the rest of your ilk, you won't do that. "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." Won't confront that statement, either. Hits too close to the truth, I guess. It's like this: without his semen, there's no conception, without conception, there is no pregnancy, without pregnancy, there is no abortion, or abandonment, or live birth, or whatever outcome you choose to list. "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." And no matter how hard you and your colleagues try to evade that responsibility, y'all can't do it. Sex may cause a pregnancy. Until a pregnancy occurs, both are equal in deciding 1) to abstain from sex; 2) use contraception; 3) or do nothing, hoping no pregnancy will occur. After pregnancy, the man has no choices except those given by the woman and in fact, he may not even be aware a pregnancy occurred. She is not even legally required to inform him. He should have thought of that before the fact. He should have been responsible before the fact, because he sure as hell is gonna have to own up to his responsibilities after the fact. But women do not need to be responsible because we have men onto which to pin responsibility for her decisions? Women have responsibilities, too. But I don't see women trying to evade their responsibilities, although there is one nutcase around here who thinks they are. I do, however, see lots of men trying to do so. And even if someone else was not as responsible as she might have been, that does not serve to negate his responsibility in the matter. Why do you feel women need the extra options that you seem to want to forbid men? What do you mean by "extra options"? [this should be good ... ] You also raise another interesting problem: what if the mother doesn't tell him about the pregnancy, does he STILL have responsibilities and what are they? It's still his semen, right? I mean, just because he doesn't know that he did something doesn't mean that he didn't do it. So yeah, he still has a degree of moral accountability, and if the child is alive, he definitely has legal accountability. What if she does as some do, and keep it a secret for a decade or so. What are his responsibilities then? See above. But you didn't tell what the responsibilities are, Fred. Does he have to pay child support all the way back to the birth of the child? |
#122
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote in message . net... Tripped over it again, did you? Phil wrote: You also raise another interesting problem: what if the mother doesn't tell him about the pregnancy, does he STILL have responsibilities and what are they? It's still his semen, right? I mean, just because he doesn't know that he did something doesn't mean that he didn't do it. So yeah, he still has a degree of moral accountability, and if the child is alive, he definitely has legal accountability. How so? Because it's his semen. "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." What about the moral responsibility she should have to at least inform him of the pregnancy? You keep trying that sleazy trick, but it's not gonna work. That she has such a moral responsibility does not serve to negate any responsibility that he has. What a fool you are. How can he even begin to exercise any sort of responsibility toward a child that he doesn't know exists? And what about the mother depriving the child of a father? Is that ok with you because of her gender? Whose fault would you say it is that the child is living in poverty? The father who doesn't know the child exists? Or the mother who never told the father? What I'm asking you to do is to accept the responsibilities that *you* have, and you respond by resisting that with every fiber of your being. Oh, brother. I bet in your own mind you are hearing cries of "Preach it, Brother. Amen to that preacher! Hallelujah!" |
#123
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote in message . net... Phil wrote: [distortion deleted] "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." All his fault, got it What about the moral responsibility she should have to at least inform him of the pregnancy? You keep trying that sleazy trick, but it's not gonna work. [distortion deleted] That she has such a moral responsibility does not serve to negate any responsibility that he has. A responsibility you'd never place on a woman, obviously. But I just *did* place responsibility on the woman, and I have done so before. What bothers you is that I will not put up with your using the woman's responsibility to negate the man's responsibility. What I'm asking you to do is to accept the responsibilities that *you* have, and you respond by resisting that with every fiber of your being. No, you just can't accept the fact that it's all lopsided, that women have all the choices and only the responsibility they choose while men have no choices yet exactly the responsibility the woman chooses for them. That is factually false. And it's not the first time you've been factually false, either. What that boils down to is that the facts do not support your preferred conclusions, and your arguments are not only factually bankrupt, but morally bankrupt as well, so you are forced to resort to lying in a vain attempt to maintain your bankrupt fiction. Looking in the mirror again, are you. |
#124
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ... "Fred" wrote in message . net... Tripped over it again, did you? Phil wrote: You also raise another interesting problem: what if the mother doesn't tell him about the pregnancy, does he STILL have responsibilities and what are they? It's still his semen, right? I mean, just because he doesn't know that he did something doesn't mean that he didn't do it. So yeah, he still has a degree of moral accountability, and if the child is alive, he definitely has legal accountability. How so? Because it's his semen. "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." What about the moral responsibility she should have to at least inform him of the pregnancy? You keep trying that sleazy trick, but it's not gonna work. That she has such a moral responsibility does not serve to negate any responsibility that he has. What I'm asking you to do is to accept the responsibilities that *you* have, and you respond by resisting that with every fiber of your being. Disgusting. Your little feminist biology lesson is based on wishful thinking and not established biological information. How hard is it to understand eggs are a scarcer resource than sperm? And having a child takes a greater investment on the part of a woman. Because of those biological facts woman by nature should be more selective in mates because a bad choice has long term implications and is a reflection on her discretion in selecting the right sperm. To say men are responsible for women's bad choices in sperm is to transfer the biological misjudgments made by women to men. The femwits who can't accept their biological destiny want to have the state step in with remedies to cover up their biological mistakes. The state's solution is to use men's money to cover-up the lack of responsibility by women who don't select good mates. You're going to give Frederika a heart attack with that one, Bob. snicker |
#125
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Tracy" wrote in message . .. "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ... "Fred" wrote in message . net... That she has such a moral responsibility does not serve to negate any responsibility that he has. What I'm asking you to do is to accept the responsibilities that *you* have, and you respond by resisting that with every fiber of your being. To say men are responsible for women's bad choices in sperm is to transfer the biological misjudgments made by women to men. I'm jumping in here for a second because I have not seen a single sentence Fred has written that suggests he is saying men are responsible for women's bad choices. All he has said is that men should take responsibility for where he puts his own penis. His ejaculation is due to him placing his penis inside of the woman and engaging in the sexual act with her. Pregnancy is a possible outcome of the act, which in most cases the act itself is mutually agreed on. So I'm not sure why anyone is reading more into someone stating that a man should take responsibility for his choice - where to put his penis. He has been asked quite a number of times what he sees to be women's reponsibilities in all this, and he refuses to answer. If he is misunderstood, as you say, he could solve the misunderstanding simply enough by saying: Men's responsibilities a Women's responsibilities a He has also claimed that there are jurisdicitions where rights/responsibilities are equal for both mother and father, but has not named the jusridicition, except to say that a couple of states consider the situation of both parents in the whole custody/ support thing. Like he thinks that because that's what they say, things are equal there! Absolute naivete! He is obviously full of opinions, but has no real experience to base his opinions on. Tracy |
#126
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote in message . net... Bob Whiteside wrote: "Fred" wrote in message . net... Tripped over it again, did you? Phil wrote: You also raise another interesting problem: what if the mother doesn't tell him about the pregnancy, does he STILL have responsibilities and what are they? It's still his semen, right? I mean, just because he doesn't know that he did something doesn't mean that he didn't do it. So yeah, he still has a degree of moral accountability, and if the child is alive, he definitely has legal accountability. How so? Because it's his semen. "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." What about the moral responsibility she should have to at least inform him of the pregnancy? You keep trying that sleazy trick, but it's not gonna work. That she has such a moral responsibility does not serve to negate any responsibility that he has. What I'm asking you to do is to accept the responsibilities that *you* have, and you respond by resisting that with every fiber of your being. Disgusting. Your little feminist biology lesson is based on wishful thinking and not established biological information. It's not his semen? Whose semen is it, hers? You're gonna tell us that she impregnated herself? Or are you going for immaculate conception? How hard is it to understand eggs are a scarcer resource than sperm? And how, exactly, does that negate the biological fact that it's his semen, and that without his semen there's no pregnancy? What y'all are all about is negating the male's responsibility by pointing to the female's responsibility. Well, last time I read a biology book, it took two to procreate, which makes both of them responsible for the outcome. To say men are responsible for women's bad choices in sperm is to transfer the biological misjudgments made by women to men. So don't say that. I haven't, and you shouldn't, either. The femwits who can't accept their biological destiny want to have the state step in with remedies to cover up their biological mistakes. The state's solution is to use men's money to cover-up the lack of responsibility by women who don't select good mates. And as always with y'all shirkers, it's all about the money. At least you are honest enough to admit it, I'll give you that. Problem is, the facts don't support your desired conclusions, so you're forced to resort to falsehoods, spin, and assorted trickery. But you can't get past the essential facts: "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." "Her body, her choice, her responsibility." "For every choice, a consequence." You just assume everyone here is a shirker, don't you. What a hoot! |
#127
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ... "Fred" wrote in message . net... Bob Whiteside wrote: "Fred" wrote in message . net... Tripped over it again, did you? Phil wrote: You also raise another interesting problem: what if the mother doesn't tell him about the pregnancy, does he STILL have responsibilities and what are they? It's still his semen, right? I mean, just because he doesn't know that he did something doesn't mean that he didn't do it. So yeah, he still has a degree of moral accountability, and if the child is alive, he definitely has legal accountability. How so? Because it's his semen. "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." What about the moral responsibility she should have to at least inform him of the pregnancy? You keep trying that sleazy trick, but it's not gonna work. That she has such a moral responsibility does not serve to negate any responsibility that he has. What I'm asking you to do is to accept the responsibilities that *you* have, and you respond by resisting that with every fiber of your being. Disgusting. Your little feminist biology lesson is based on wishful thinking and not established biological information. It's not his semen? Whose semen is it, hers? You're gonna tell us that she impregnated herself? Or are you going for immaculate conception? Actually, all your questions are irrelevant. How hard is it to understand eggs are a scarcer resource than sperm? And how, exactly, does that negate the biological fact that it's his semen, and that without his semen there's no pregnancy? What y'all are all about is negating the male's responsibility by pointing to the female's responsibility. Well, last time I read a biology book, it took two to procreate, which makes both of them responsible for the outcome. Actually, what you think is irrevelant. To say men are responsible for women's bad choices in sperm is to transfer the biological misjudgments made by women to men. So don't say that. I haven't, and you shouldn't, either. Actually, no one cares what you say. The femwits who can't accept their biological destiny want to have the state step in with remedies to cover up their biological mistakes. The state's solution is to use men's money to cover-up the lack of responsibility by women who don't select good mates. And as always with y'all shirkers, it's all about the money. At least you are honest enough to admit it, I'll give you that. Actually, we are just toying with you so you can make a bigger ass of yourself. Problem is, the facts don't support your desired conclusions, so you're forced to resort to falsehoods, spin, and assorted trickery. But you can't get past the essential facts: "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." "Her body, her choice, her responsibility." "For every choice, a consequence." Actually, nobody buys your bull**** conclusions! And actually, by the way, nobody believes you are a "Fred." Oh, Bob! Now you've gone and spoiled our fun! We haven't had anyone like Fred(erika) here in a loooong time!! |
#128
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote in Both base child support on the combined gross incomes of both parents, That's after they impute his income up and impute her income down, then it's calulated. Have a friend whose ex's income was imputed down to the point of where they said she was earning only $800/mth as an RN. |
#129
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Phil" wrote in message nk.net... "Fred" wrote in message . net... Phil wrote: "Fred" wrote in message . net... Phil wrote: "Fred" wrote in message . net... Andre Lieven wrote: "Tracy" ) writes: "Gini" wrote in message news:v25Vg.2469$6S2.1287@trndny02... wrote ............................. Deary, a vasectomy is cheaper than a month of child support. If you don't want to breed, don't have sex with a fertile woman, == And how is he to know when she is fertile? Isn't a vasectomy only cheaper than a month of child support if child support is more than a vasecotmy? How much is a vasectomy? How much is a tubal ligation ? Here's something interesting: "The cost of vasectomy is typically 3 to 4 times less than the cost of tubal ligation. Although prices vary, regionally, vasectomy costs generally range from about two hundrend fifty to one thousand dollars, while the cost of tubal ligation often begin at about one thousand dollars and may go as high as twenty-five hundred dollars. The cost difference is mainly due to the fact of where each procedure is performed; an office procedure vs. a hospital procedure." http://womenshealth.about.com/cs/ste...zhisorhe_3.htm But it's not really about cost, is it? It's about taking responsibility. Apparently, it's about applying responsibility to only men as noted in your next statement. Your bigotry is showing. But on we go ... Equality is bigotry??? You aren't talking about equality. You are talking about inequality, as in assigning responsibility to one in a matter where it is properly assigned to both. Men and women share responsibility for any pregnancy that occurs when they agree to have sex. BOTH and equally, not just the man. You are bending over backward to promote the idea that men are solely responsible for any pregnancy while saying absolutely nothing about any responsibility the woman may or may not have. Why is that? She's pregnant? |
#130
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote in message . net... Tracy wrote: "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ... "Fred" wrote in message . net... That she has such a moral responsibility does not serve to negate any responsibility that he has. What I'm asking you to do is to accept the responsibilities that *you* have, and you respond by resisting that with every fiber of your being. To say men are responsible for women's bad choices in sperm is to transfer the biological misjudgments made by women to men. I'm jumping in here for a second because I have not seen a single sentence Fred has written that suggests he is saying men are responsible for women's bad choices. All he has said is that men should take responsibility for where he puts his own penis. His ejaculation is due to him placing his penis inside of the woman and engaging in the sexual act with her. Pregnancy is a possible outcome of the act, which in most cases the act itself is mutually agreed on. So I'm not sure why anyone is reading more into someone stating that a man should take responsibility for his choice - where to put his penis. At the end of the day, it's all about the money. These males are trying to evade responsibility for their choices so as to falsely justify not having to pay child support, or medical bills, or whatever else they might have to spend on someone else as a result of their choices. And "someone else" includes the child. I could understand an argument based on the child support laws in a given jurisdiction being based only on the income of the noncustodial parent. That's simply not equitable. But that is not the case in every jurisdiction, and even if it is in a given jurisdiction, it speaks to challenging or changing the law, as has been done here in Minnesota, not using an inequitable law as justification to evade supporting his child. All I'm asking is that both men and women take responsibility for their choices. What's wrong with that? O dunno, Freddi. Have you ever told us exactly what you think the woman's responsibilities are? Is birthing the child her only responsibility? It's the only thing you have pointedly mentioned. You haven't even voiced an objection to her not informing the father that he is a father for a decade or moreoobut you still claim that the father is responsible during that entire time even if he didn't know he was a father. What, exactly, do you see the woman's responsibility to be? |
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