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#151
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Things to think of before you get married again..
Fred wrote:
Ken Chaddock wrote: Fred wrote: Gini wrote: "teachrmama" wrote ............................ And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities! I am a woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what MEN should do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their responibilities in the same situation. Everything a woman does after the sex act is a consequence of where that mean old man left his semen. Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why don't you clearly delineate what the woman's responsibilities are after the consequence of pregnancy becomes an issue. == A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.) I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme of the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence." It's too bad that you seem to grasp the obvious fact that all post conception choices are the woman's and therefore, in accordance with the precepts of "Natural/Fundamental" Justice, all the consequences that follow from those choices should also be hers. I am aware of what Canada's notion of "natural justice". I know that it allows Canada to declare age discrimination to be legal even though it is unconstitutional; see McKinney v. University of Guelph. So if you expect me to buy any argument based on that concept, you are swimming upstream. I read your entire message. What it boils down to is yet another attempt to evade your responsibilities by ignoring the doctrine of informed consent. Sorry, but men can't just spread their semen hither and yon and walk away from the consequences thereof because those consequences are ... *inconvenient*. That's "inconvenient" as in financially inconvenient, because at the end of the day it's always about the money with y'all. Yes, it's easier to cut the article and make some unrelated, self-serving comments when you can't rebut the points made...sometimes I to wish I could do that to but I guess I just have too much integrity to do so... ....Ken |
#152
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Moon Shyne" wrote in message ... "Ken Chaddock" wrote in message news:RzLWg.10968$H7.5814@edtnps82... Fred wrote: Gini wrote: "teachrmama" wrote ............................ And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities! I am a woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what MEN should do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their responibilities in the same situation. Everything a woman does after the sex act is a consequence of where that mean old man left his semen. Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why don't you clearly delineate what the woman's responsibilities are after the consequence of pregnancy becomes an issue. == A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.) I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme of the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence." It's too bad that you seem to grasp the obvious fact that all post conception choices are the woman's and therefore, in accordance with the precepts of "Natural/Fundamental" Justice, all the consequences that follow from those choices should also be hers. So he chooses to spread his semen hither and yon, and she chooses to let him spread it in her. And let's say that the consequence is pregnancy. But that's as far as the "consequence" of his "spreading his sperm around" go. After that the woman has many options and CHOICES...even if she decides (note the word "decides") not to abort the fetus, that to, is a CHOICE, the consequence of which will most likely be the birth of a child... And if the child is born, how does that absolve the man from any responsibility for or to the child? Isn't it still 50% genetically his child, and legally his child as well? Now there are other choices to be made, in this case by her, and from those choices will spring consequences in turn. Yes, as I noted above, but ALL post conception choices are HER choices, to hold him responsible for the consequences that follow from HER choices is fundamentally unfair, unjust and, on top of all that, most likely unconstitutional... So because she has choices that pertain strictly to undergoing (or not undergoing) a medical and surgical procedure, you think this absolves the man from any responsibility, even though it's still his child? When the father legally has 50% of the rights to match his responsibilities, the we can come back to his responsibilities toward the child. Until he becomes an actual parent in the life of the child he helped create--50/50 with the mother, he also should not be the bankroll. Correct. Rights match responsibilities. He shares only the responsibility that correspond to the rights he has; conversely, she has rights that match her responsibility. So the question is: who has what rights? Just because a man accompanies you to a dealership does not mean he owes you a car. Phil #3 |
#153
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"GL Fowler" wrote in message news On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:01:35 GMT, "Phil" wrote: "Fred" wrote in message e.net... Absolutely nothing of value. Phil #3 So why are you playing his game? A jury is 12 individuals who decides who has the best lawyer. - Mark Twain (S)he's entertaining Besides, with his/her vast ignorance, (s)he's showing feminism's true face without even knowing it. (S)he's so ignorant, that even by reading this, still won't know what I said. Phil #3 |
#154
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Things to think of before you get married again..
Fred ) just doesn't get it::
Andre Lieven wrote: "Tracy" ) writes: "Gini" wrote in message news:v25Vg.2469$6S2.1287@trndny02... wrote ............................. Deary, a vasectomy is cheaper than a month of child support. If you don't want to breed, don't have sex with a fertile woman, == And how is he to know when she is fertile? Isn't a vasectomy only cheaper than a month of child support if child support is more than a vasecotmy? How much is a vasectomy? How much is a tubal ligation ? Here's something interesting: "The cost of vasectomy is typically 3 to 4 times less than the cost of tubal ligation. Although prices vary, regionally, vasectomy costs generally range from about two hundrend fifty to one thousand dollars, while the cost of tubal ligation often begin at about one thousand dollars and may go as high as twenty-five hundred dollars. The cost difference is mainly due to the fact of where each procedure is performed; an office procedure vs. a hospital procedure." http://womenshealth.about.com/cs/ste...zhisorhe_3.htm But it's not really about cost, is it? No. It's about taking responsibility. ONLY for men. Note that women-ONLY are allowed several NON medical and NON biological LEGAL means to *post-coitally* and post natally, to totally void ALL of their parental responsibilities, even as they get 100% of the post-coital choices, too. Thats... sexist. And let's face it, he's responsible for where his semen ends up, Why isn't *she responsible* for what *she alone* does with her EGG ? Double Standard and in this day and age, I don't think it's reasonable for him to say that he didn't know *all* of the potential consequences of his actions. Its not reasonable to say that SHE didn't know ALL of the potential consequences of HER actions. Note that,a s SHE gets 100% of the post-coital choices, that it logically follows that she *also gets* 100% of the *post-coital* responsibilities. So here's a question: How much is a condom? How much is a Pill ? An IUD ? A diaphram ? A Legal Abandon drop off ? Etc. Andre |
#155
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Gini" ) writes:
"Ken Chaddock" wrote ............................ Tracy, what you are describing is the only means of birth control officially sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church...it's called the Rhythm Method == We all know that! The subject came up several weeks ago when Hy insisted that the man is 100% responsible for the sperm even after it fertilizes the egg. I have repeatedly reminded her that a woman can only get pg when she is fertile and only the woman can know when that is and it is HER responsibility to not have sex when she is fertile. Hence, men don't "get" women pregnant--women ALLOW themselves to get pregnant. The counting thing is a spoof on Hy's/feminists' contention that women are so weak and dependent that they need the state to protect them and men to support them. I disagree with that. I think women are entirely capable of surviving without such props and society should stop trying to convince them that they are entitled to such bolstering simply because they are the "weaker sex." That is what feminism has done to our gender and I, as a woman, despise it. Hear, hear. You are entirely correct, and if we are to simply treat women, legally, as being " persons " as men are, then we MUST say that responsibility follows *authority*. Even with women. And, as sole authority over a pregnancy is hers, so MUST be the responsibility. Thats why I coined: " Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility*. " Andre |
#156
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Tracy" ) MSes the point:
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ... "Fred" wrote in message . net... That she has such a moral responsibility does not serve to negate any responsibility that he has. What I'm asking you to do is to accept the responsibilities that *you* have, and you respond by resisting that with every fiber of your being. To say men are responsible for women's bad choices in sperm is to transfer the biological misjudgments made by women to men. I'm jumping in here for a second because I have not seen a single sentence Fred has written that suggests he is saying men are responsible for women's bad choices. Yet, Fred the Feminist Apologist has not written a word to suggest that WOMEN should be responsible for WOMEN-ONLY choices and authorities. " Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility*. " All he has said is that men should take responsibility for where he puts his own penis. His ejaculation is due to him placing his penis inside of the woman and engaging in the sexual act with her. This would matter IF abortion, and ALL OTHER POST COITAL WOMEN-ONLY choices were outlawed. Since that is NOT the case now, this point is specious and misandristic. Pregnancy is a possible outcome of the act, which in most cases the act itself is mutually agreed on. So I'm not sure why anyone is reading more into someone stating that a man should take responsibility for his choice - where to put his penis. Because babies don't pop out of penises. Duh ! Andre |
#157
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Things to think of before you get married again..
GL Fowler ) writes:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:01:35 GMT, "Phil" wrote: "Fred" wrote in message e.net... Absolutely nothing of value. Phil #3 So why are you playing his game? Because the best answer to bad/idiotic speech is good/informed speech. Andre |
#158
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Things to think of before you get married again..
Ken Chaddock ) writes:
Fred wrote: Ken Chaddock wrote: Fred wrote: Gini wrote: "teachrmama" wrote ............................ And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities! I am a woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what MEN should do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their responibilities in the same situation. Everything a woman does after the sex act is a consequence of where that mean old man left his semen. Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why don't you clearly delineate what the woman's responsibilities are after the consequence of pregnancy becomes an issue. == A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.) I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme of the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence." It's too bad that you seem to grasp the obvious fact that all post conception choices are the woman's and therefore, in accordance with the precepts of "Natural/Fundamental" Justice, all the consequences that follow from those choices should also be hers. I am aware of what Canada's notion of "natural justice". I know that it allows Canada to declare age discrimination to be legal even though it is unconstitutional; see McKinney v. University of Guelph. So if you expect me to buy any argument based on that concept, you are swimming upstream. I read your entire message. What it boils down to is yet another attempt to evade your responsibilities by ignoring the doctrine of informed consent. Sorry, but men can't just spread their semen hither and yon and walk away from the consequences thereof because those consequences are ... *inconvenient*. That's "inconvenient" as in financially inconvenient, because at the end of the day it's always about the money with y'all. Yes, it's easier to cut the article and make some unrelated, self-serving comments when you can't rebut the points made...sometimes I to wish I could do that to but I guess I just have too much integrity to do so... Ken, between the cite cutting/evading, and the phrase " spread their semen ", I say that " Fred " is Parg. Andre |
#159
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote .......................... I read your entire message. What it boils down to is yet another attempt to evade your responsibilities by ignoring the doctrine of informed consent. Sorry, but men can't just spread their semen hither and yon and walk away from the consequences thereof because those consequences are ... *inconvenient*. That's "inconvenient" as in financially inconvenient, because at the end of the day it's always about the money with y'all. It's disgusting, really. == Then I presume you find it equally disgusting when the mother does the same, such as abortion, baby dropoff? |
#160
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Things to think of before you get married again..
wrote Fred - You are Fred aren't you, and not Cindy, Sharon, Luoise, or some other feminist disguising yourself to make it look like you are chivalrous? == We frequently get the male feminists when they are the second husband and resent the bio dad's boat, car, food, etc. They all seem to think bio dad owes them a higher standard of living. Really, they do. |
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