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Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent.(BC, Canada)



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 29th 07, 01:31 AM posted to alt.child-support
MGL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent.(BC, Canada)

Hi,

My wife has sole custody of her two children (aged 12 and 9) from a previous relationship. Their
father pays child support, largely due to his insistence in taking my wife to court twice (and
losing badly, twice), when my wife would have been happy to settle through mediation. The support
payments are managed by British Columbia's Family Maintenance Enforcement Program, which has put an
end to humiliating front-door confrontations over finances.

The 12 year-old has been going through a particularly difficult transition to her teenage years, and
we have experienced several months of increasingly insolent and provocative behaviour from her in an
apparent attempt to provoke a confrontation. We do not use corporal punishment, and this dispute
mainly centered around issues of courtesy and minor chores--nothing out of the ordinary at all.
(We're a pretty boring middle-class professional family.) We have been in contact with our
daughter's school counsellor, and have ourselves gone to counselling to help develop some parenting
strategies for this difficult time.

Three weeks ago, she finally managed to provoke her mother into a major confrontation, and took that
as her pretext to pack her bags, even though we asked her not to. She has gone to live with her
father (who had similar problems with her last year and even asked to end his OWN access to her at
the time). He is now exultantly claiming that he has effective custody of her, even though the
court order is still in effect and we have made it clear we would like her to come back home. He
also claims that she is now able to choose where she will live, and has chosen to live with him
permanently (he lives by choice in a one-room studio apartment). He is even threatening to go to
court in an attempt to gain sole custody of BOTH children if my wife does not agree voluntarily to
relieve him of his court-ordered child support obligations.

So, my questions are these:

- Is there an easy and reasonably non-inflammatory way we can put an end to this drama and have our
daughter come back home?
- Are 12 year-olds allowed to decide where they want to live (outside of a custody hearing, that is)?
- At what point is my wife considered to have forfeited her court-ordered custody of her daughter?

From reading this group, I know this kind of thing is a politically charged topic for many people.
I urge you not to think of our situation in this way; the father in this case has been diagnosed
with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and appears to care far less about his children than he does
about getting revenge on my wife and removing his child-support obligations, which he regards as a
humiliating aspersion on his character.

Thanks.
  #2  
Old December 29th 07, 02:39 AM posted to alt.child-support
Animal02[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent. (BC, Canada)


"MGL" wrote in message
news:Qzgdj.29659$DP1.1615@pd7urf2no...
Hi,

My wife has sole custody of her two children (aged 12 and 9) from a
previous relationship. Their father pays child support, largely due to
his insistence in taking my wife to court twice (and losing badly, twice),
when my wife would have been happy to settle through mediation. The
support payments are managed by British Columbia's Family Maintenance
Enforcement Program, which has put an end to humiliating front-door
confrontations over finances.

The 12 year-old has been going through a particularly difficult transition
to her teenage years, and we have experienced several months of
increasingly insolent and provocative behaviour from her in an apparent
attempt to provoke a confrontation. We do not use corporal punishment,
and this dispute mainly centered around issues of courtesy and minor
chores--nothing out of the ordinary at all. (We're a pretty boring
middle-class professional family.) We have been in contact with our
daughter's school counsellor, and have ourselves gone to counselling to
help develop some parenting strategies for this difficult time.

Three weeks ago, she finally managed to provoke her mother into a major
confrontation, and took that as her pretext to pack her bags, even though
we asked her not to. She has gone to live with her father (who had
similar problems with her last year and even asked to end his OWN access
to her at the time). He is now exultantly claiming that he has effective
custody of her, even though the court order is still in effect and we have
made it clear we would like her to come back home. He also claims that
she is now able to choose where she will live, and has chosen to live with
him permanently (he lives by choice in a one-room studio apartment). He
is even threatening to go to court in an attempt to gain sole custody of
BOTH children if my wife does not agree voluntarily to relieve him of his
court-ordered child support obligations.

So, my questions are these:

- Is there an easy and reasonably non-inflammatory way we can put an end
to this drama and have our daughter come back home?
- Are 12 year-olds allowed to decide where they want to live (outside of a
custody hearing, that is)?
- At what point is my wife considered to have forfeited her court-ordered
custody of her daughter?

From reading this group, I know this kind of thing is a politically
charged topic for many people. I urge you not to think of our situation in
this way; the father in this case has been diagnosed with Narcissistic
Personality Disorder and appears to care far less about his children than
he does about getting revenge on my wife and removing his child-support
obligations, which he regards as a humiliating aspersion on his character.

Thanks.


Yes......BUTT OUT........it is between your wife and her ex.


  #3  
Old December 29th 07, 02:46 AM posted to alt.child-support
MGL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent.(BC, Canada)

on 28-December-2007 5:39 PM Animal02 said the following:
"MGL" wrote in message
news:Qzgdj.29659$DP1.1615@pd7urf2no...
Hi,

My wife has sole custody of her two children (aged 12 and 9) from a
previous relationship. Their father pays child support, largely due to
his insistence in taking my wife to court twice (and losing badly, twice),
when my wife would have been happy to settle through mediation. The
support payments are managed by British Columbia's Family Maintenance
Enforcement Program, which has put an end to humiliating front-door
confrontations over finances.

The 12 year-old has been going through a particularly difficult transition
to her teenage years, and we have experienced several months of
increasingly insolent and provocative behaviour from her in an apparent
attempt to provoke a confrontation. We do not use corporal punishment,
and this dispute mainly centered around issues of courtesy and minor
chores--nothing out of the ordinary at all. (We're a pretty boring
middle-class professional family.) We have been in contact with our
daughter's school counsellor, and have ourselves gone to counselling to
help develop some parenting strategies for this difficult time.

Three weeks ago, she finally managed to provoke her mother into a major
confrontation, and took that as her pretext to pack her bags, even though
we asked her not to. She has gone to live with her father (who had
similar problems with her last year and even asked to end his OWN access
to her at the time). He is now exultantly claiming that he has effective
custody of her, even though the court order is still in effect and we have
made it clear we would like her to come back home. He also claims that
she is now able to choose where she will live, and has chosen to live with
him permanently (he lives by choice in a one-room studio apartment). He
is even threatening to go to court in an attempt to gain sole custody of
BOTH children if my wife does not agree voluntarily to relieve him of his
court-ordered child support obligations.

So, my questions are these:

- Is there an easy and reasonably non-inflammatory way we can put an end
to this drama and have our daughter come back home?
- Are 12 year-olds allowed to decide where they want to live (outside of a
custody hearing, that is)?
- At what point is my wife considered to have forfeited her court-ordered
custody of her daughter?

From reading this group, I know this kind of thing is a politically
charged topic for many people. I urge you not to think of our situation in
this way; the father in this case has been diagnosed with Narcissistic
Personality Disorder and appears to care far less about his children than
he does about getting revenge on my wife and removing his child-support
obligations, which he regards as a humiliating aspersion on his character.

Thanks.


Yes......BUTT OUT........it is between your wife and her ex.




Hey, great advice! Thanks!

Got anything substantive to add?
  #4  
Old December 29th 07, 03:29 AM posted to alt.child-support
DB[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 266
Default Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent. (BC, Canada)


"MGL" wrote in

From reading this group, I know this kind of thing is a politically
charged topic for many people. I urge you not to think of our situation
in this way; the father in this case has been diagnosed with
Narcissistic Personality Disorder and appears to care far less about his
children than he does about getting revenge on my wife and removing his
child-support obligations, which he regards as a humiliating aspersion
on his character.


Let the kid stay with her father!

After she gets really tired of living in those conditions, perhaps she'll
better appreciate what you have to offer!





  #5  
Old December 29th 07, 03:38 AM posted to alt.child-support
Animal02[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent. (BC, Canada)


"MGL" wrote in message
news:lGhdj.30360$DP1.6540@pd7urf2no...
on 28-December-2007 5:39 PM Animal02 said the following:
"MGL" wrote in message
news:Qzgdj.29659$DP1.1615@pd7urf2no...
Hi,

My wife has sole custody of her two children (aged 12 and 9) from a
previous relationship. Their father pays child support, largely due to
his insistence in taking my wife to court twice (and losing badly,
twice), when my wife would have been happy to settle through mediation.
The support payments are managed by British Columbia's Family
Maintenance Enforcement Program, which has put an end to humiliating
front-door confrontations over finances.

The 12 year-old has been going through a particularly difficult
transition to her teenage years, and we have experienced several months
of increasingly insolent and provocative behaviour from her in an
apparent attempt to provoke a confrontation. We do not use corporal
punishment, and this dispute mainly centered around issues of courtesy
and minor chores--nothing out of the ordinary at all. (We're a pretty
boring middle-class professional family.) We have been in contact with
our daughter's school counsellor, and have ourselves gone to counselling
to help develop some parenting strategies for this difficult time.

Three weeks ago, she finally managed to provoke her mother into a major
confrontation, and took that as her pretext to pack her bags, even
though we asked her not to. She has gone to live with her father (who
had similar problems with her last year and even asked to end his OWN
access to her at the time). He is now exultantly claiming that he has
effective custody of her, even though the court order is still in effect
and we have made it clear we would like her to come back home. He also
claims that she is now able to choose where she will live, and has
chosen to live with him permanently (he lives by choice in a one-room
studio apartment). He is even threatening to go to court in an attempt
to gain sole custody of BOTH children if my wife does not agree
voluntarily to relieve him of his court-ordered child support
obligations.

So, my questions are these:

- Is there an easy and reasonably non-inflammatory way we can put an end
to this drama and have our daughter come back home?
- Are 12 year-olds allowed to decide where they want to live (outside of
a custody hearing, that is)?
- At what point is my wife considered to have forfeited her
court-ordered custody of her daughter?

From reading this group, I know this kind of thing is a politically
charged topic for many people. I urge you not to think of our situation
in this way; the father in this case has been diagnosed with
Narcissistic Personality Disorder and appears to care far less about his
children than he does about getting revenge on my wife and removing his
child-support obligations, which he regards as a humiliating aspersion
on his character.

Thanks.


Yes......BUTT OUT........it is between your wife and her ex.




Hey, great advice! Thanks!

Got anything substantive to add?


WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

I am I not surprised you don't have a clue.



  #6  
Old December 29th 07, 04:44 AM posted to alt.child-support
Gini
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent. (BC, Canada)


"MGL" wrote

.............
My wife has sole custody of her two children (aged 12 and 9) from a
previous relationship.

...........................................

The 12 year-old has been going through a particularly difficult transition
to her teenage years, and we have experienced several months of
increasingly insolent and provocative behaviour from her in an apparent
attempt to provoke a confrontation.

..........................

Three weeks ago, she finally managed to provoke her mother into a major
confrontation, and took that as her pretext to pack her bags, even though
we asked her not to. She has gone to live with her father (who had
similar problems with her last year and even asked to end his OWN access
to her at the time). He is now exultantly claiming that he has effective
custody of her, even though the court order is still in effect and we have
made it clear we would like her to come back home. He also claims that
she is now able to choose where she will live, and has chosen to live with
him permanently (he lives by choice in a one-room studio apartment). He
is even threatening to go to court in an attempt to gain sole custody of
BOTH children if my wife does not agree voluntarily to relieve him of his
court-ordered child support obligations.

So, my questions are these:

- Is there an easy and reasonably non-inflammatory way we can put an end
to this drama and have our daughter come back home?

===
She isn't "our" daughter--She is your wife's and the dad's daughter. This
really isn't your business. It is a
matter between the girl/children and her/their parents. On what have you
based your assertion that he
doesn't care about the child(ren) but simply wants the support lowered? How
do we know that you don't
really care about the child and want the support to stay in your household?
Yes, at age 12, she will have
some say in the matter. Oh yeah, did I say this is between the girl and *her
parents* and it's not your
place to interfere? "We" discipline--Why on earth are you disciplining your
wife's children?
===


  #7  
Old December 29th 07, 07:17 AM posted to alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent. (BC, Canada)


"MGL" wrote in message
news:Qzgdj.29659$DP1.1615@pd7urf2no...
Hi,

My wife has sole custody of her two children (aged 12 and 9) from a
previous relationship. Their father pays child support, largely due to
his insistence in taking my wife to court twice (and losing badly, twice),
when my wife would have been happy to settle through mediation. The
support payments are managed by British Columbia's Family Maintenance
Enforcement Program, which has put an end to humiliating front-door
confrontations over finances.

The 12 year-old has been going through a particularly difficult transition
to her teenage years, and we have experienced several months of
increasingly insolent and provocative behaviour from her in an apparent
attempt to provoke a confrontation. We do not use corporal punishment,
and this dispute mainly centered around issues of courtesy and minor
chores--nothing out of the ordinary at all. (We're a pretty boring
middle-class professional family.) We have been in contact with our
daughter's school counsellor, and have ourselves gone to counselling to
help develop some parenting strategies for this difficult time.

Three weeks ago, she finally managed to provoke her mother into a major
confrontation, and took that as her pretext to pack her bags, even though
we asked her not to. She has gone to live with her father (who had
similar problems with her last year and even asked to end his OWN access
to her at the time). He is now exultantly claiming that he has effective
custody of her, even though the court order is still in effect and we have
made it clear we would like her to come back home. He also claims that
she is now able to choose where she will live, and has chosen to live with
him permanently (he lives by choice in a one-room studio apartment). He
is even threatening to go to court in an attempt to gain sole custody of
BOTH children if my wife does not agree voluntarily to relieve him of his
court-ordered child support obligations.

So, my questions are these:

- Is there an easy and reasonably non-inflammatory way we can put an end
to this drama and have our daughter come back home?
- Are 12 year-olds allowed to decide where they want to live (outside of a
custody hearing, that is)?
- At what point is my wife considered to have forfeited her court-ordered
custody of her daughter?

From reading this group, I know this kind of thing is a politically
charged topic for many people. I urge you not to think of our situation in
this way; the father in this case has been diagnosed with Narcissistic
Personality Disorder and appears to care far less about his children than
he does about getting revenge on my wife and removing his child-support
obligations, which he regards as a humiliating aspersion on his character.

Thanks.


It really is good advice to let the parents of the child handle the matter.
I am sure you are trying to help, but the court will insist on hearing from
the parents, and will call you a stranger to the case. Her daughter will,
undoubtedly, get tired of living in a one room apartment soon enough. The
anger will die down and she will begin to think things through. If the dad
wants custody, he will be able to file for it whereever the child lives, so
getting her back home with mom will not necessarily forestall him. Relax a
little, and let things settle down, and let the parents work thongs out.
You are there to be a support to your wife--not to handle matters yourself,
as much as you might want to. BTW, I have 13 and 14 year old daughters, and
I can tell you that they do have their moments. TEll your wife to hang in
there--it does get better.


  #8  
Old December 29th 07, 07:23 AM posted to alt.child-support
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent. (BC, Canada)


"MGL" wrote in message
news:Qzgdj.29659$DP1.1615@pd7urf2no...


So, my questions are these:

- Is there an easy and reasonably non-inflammatory way we can put an end
to this drama and have our daughter come back home?


Sure. Stop playing the substitute dad role and recognize you can never
replace her real dad no matter what you do.

- Are 12 year-olds allowed to decide where they want to live (outside of a
custody hearing, that is)?


No. But a mature 12 year old can influenece the court's decision on custody
at a future hearing.

- At what point is my wife considered to have forfeited her court-ordered
custody of her daughter?


When the court says so. A 12 year old child could care less about court
ordered custody. They are seeking a safe-haven and a comfortable living
environment. It doesn't sound like she has that with you and her mom.


  #9  
Old December 29th 07, 02:52 PM posted to alt.child-support
MGL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent.(BC, Canada)

on 28-December-2007 10:17 PM teachrmama said the following:

It really is good advice to let the parents of the child handle the matter.
I am sure you are trying to help, but the court will insist on hearing from
the parents, and will call you a stranger to the case. Her daughter will,
undoubtedly, get tired of living in a one room apartment soon enough. The
anger will die down and she will begin to think things through. If the dad
wants custody, he will be able to file for it whereever the child lives, so
getting her back home with mom will not necessarily forestall him. Relax a
little, and let things settle down, and let the parents work thongs out.
You are there to be a support to your wife--not to handle matters yourself,
as much as you might want to. BTW, I have 13 and 14 year old daughters, and
I can tell you that they do have their moments. TEll your wife to hang in
there--it does get better.



Thank you for your measured response. I really should have written this from my wife's perspective
so you all wouldn't get distracted by your own preconceptions of the situation. Thing is, she
doesn't know much about Usenet, so I figured I'd ask these questions on her behalf. She is asking
these questions, and on the eve of the weekend, with most of the regular formal counselling channels
closed for a couple of days, I thought of asking informally on this newsgroup. I understand the
situation pretty well, so there's no need for the parade of high horses.
  #10  
Old December 29th 07, 03:36 PM posted to alt.child-support
Animal02[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Question: 12 year-old runs away to live with non-custodial parent. (BC, Canada)


"MGL" wrote in message
news:fisdj.36607$DP1.25299@pd7urf2no...
on 28-December-2007 10:17 PM teachrmama said the following:

It really is good advice to let the parents of the child handle the
matter. I am sure you are trying to help, but the court will insist on
hearing from the parents, and will call you a stranger to the case. Her
daughter will, undoubtedly, get tired of living in a one room apartment
soon enough. The anger will die down and she will begin to think things
through. If the dad wants custody, he will be able to file for it
whereever the child lives, so getting her back home with mom will not
necessarily forestall him. Relax a little, and let things settle down,
and let the parents work thongs out. You are there to be a support to
your wife--not to handle matters yourself, as much as you might want to.
BTW, I have 13 and 14 year old daughters, and I can tell you that they do
have their moments. TEll your wife to hang in there--it does get better.


Thank you for your measured response. I really should have written this
from my wife's perspective so you all wouldn't get distracted by your own
preconceptions of the situation. Thing is, she doesn't know much about
Usenet, so I figured I'd ask these questions on her behalf. She is asking
these questions, and on the eve of the weekend, with most of the regular
formal counselling channels closed for a couple of days, I thought of
asking informally on this newsgroup. I understand the situation pretty
well, so there's no need for the parade of high horses.


Everybody has the situation pegged pretty accurately except you.


 




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