Bill Cosby - NAACP leaders stunned by remarks of prominent comedian

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 02:04:48 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever
listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful
person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian.

I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about
education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that
while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were
performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context
as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his
remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets
that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his
comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in
exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about
special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was
just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and
offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on
a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with
elements of both.

Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search
engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without
the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event
on them. He was serious, of course.

I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.


Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of
"Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing
execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do.

Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom
I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition
when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard.
We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics
world or that they don't know.

Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen,
the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING.
-----------------------
Sure they are, you just don't like how they do it.
Steve

I think Cosby would tell you that they probably don't even know what
good parenting is.

Holger
------------------
Cosby is so hated by his own children that they'd tell you he doesn't.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:48:42 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sun, 23 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever
listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful
person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian.

I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about
education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that
while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were
performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context
as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his
remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets
that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his
comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in
exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about
special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was
just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and
offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on
a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with
elements of both.

Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search
engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without
the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event
on them. He was serious, of course.

I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.


Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of
"Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing
execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do.

Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom
I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition
when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard.
We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics
world or that they don't know.

Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen,
the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING.

He does not say, "all blacks".


I wasn't talking about Cosby. I was talking about people like you.


They make choices and the reasons for those choices are many.

I work with one woman (a support staff member, not a teacher) who
cannot speak formal English. It grates on my nerves after a while
because she talks nonstop. But interestingly, her three children are
all quite skilled at formal English. That's all I've ever heard
them speak when they come to visit. All are well educated and
successful too. Not a loser in the bunch. So she and her husband
must have done something right.

We are not saying that all blacks can not speak English, but just a lot
of them.

Frankly, from the "linguistic" examples you've given us, I don't see
how you'd even know.

The examples I gave are just the tip of the iceberg. It's general
knowledge how a large number of black people abuse our language.
--------------------
It's not "ours", any more than "the flag" is "ours". The flag belongs
to who owns one, and the language belongs to whoever uses it, as they
wish.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 00:26:50 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
And, being the master, you should speak and walk and sit and behave
correctly and not sound like an idiot when you speak.

Take your own advice. The primary way one sounds like an idiot is NOT
with unusual grammar or pronunciation, but from drooling CONTENT,
which is about all you issue.

Imagine how much their lives would change for the better if they would
just take Cosby's advice and get these things corrected. Their whole
attitude could change and hopefully, they would stay out of prison.

It would be so much better than sitting on the sidewalk saying
muhfugger, etc.
Holger
---------------------
And the jews would have been better off if they had just become good
little Nazi's and died voluntarily, eh? You don't realize the hate
that slavery and southern bigotry, and some northern bigotry engendered
in the black mind and how much it would take to change that, to redeem
it, and it wouldn't EVER be redeemed by blacks, but can only be redeemed
by the actions of their abusers.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 00:30:02 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
Who are YOU to define what is "proper" and what isn't "proper" in
walking or any other activity, racist?

I'm someone who knows the proper way to speak and walk and sit and
behave.

Who says?

I grew up in a home and all of the family knew these things and
associated primarily with other people who do.

Or maybe all of you are close-minded racist idiots who wouldn't know a
clue if you saw one.

You stand up straight when you walk.

Does he? How do you know?

Everyone should stand up straight when they walk.

Why?

Should a wheelchair-bound person do so? Are they mentally deficient
because they don't?

You are really out of the ball park. You know exactly what I'm talking
about and are into denial, denial, denial.

Bill Cosby took aim at blacks who don't take responsibility for their
economic status, blame police for incarcerations and teach their kids
poor speaking habits.
--------------------------
I read it. He spoke as the white man he is! We have a name for black
people who are white inside, we call them Oreos, after the black cookie
with white filling. Because of the lucky circumstance he had, he is
entirely unable to relate to the black who still carries the total
load of the abuse and racism of white society, and which he, because
of luck and fame and wealth has long been spared. He should just shut
the **** up until he knows better.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 01:43:16 GMT, Christopher Weeks
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

Slouching is very incorrect. It means to walk, stand, or sit with a
slouch. A slouch is a loose or drooping gait or posture. It's usually
indicative of a lazy or incompetent person, who, by the way, may be
called a slouch.

What makes it incorrect? What makes the lack of a slouch superior?

The same thing that makes walking with a drooping gait not the proper
way to walk unless you are trying to look like a clown. You stand up
straight when you walk.

Holger

But that's what I mean. Why is such a walk improper?

It's usually indicative of a lazy or incompetent person, who, by the
way, may be called a slouch. You should walk all stooped over if you
are playing the leading role in "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" or
something similar.
Holger
------------------------
If you felt entirely demeaned by racism and your resultant life
circumstances, you would involvuntarily slouch as well, and you
wouldn't even be aware of it.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 01:24:40 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 10:20:33 GMT, Christopher Weeks
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

You probably don't realize that there is a correct way to do everything.

I sure don't. I'm confused about the "correct" way to sit, for
instance. I sort of figure that if your butt is on a chair, bench,
couch, the ground, the back of a car, the edge of a table, etc. and your
weight is mainly supported by that butt, allowing your legs and feet to
rest, then you're sitting correctly. Right?

What does it even mean to sit incorrectly?

Slouching is very incorrect. It means to walk, stand, or sit with a
slouch. A slouch is a loose or drooping gait or posture. It's usually
indicative of a lazy or incompetent person, who, by the way, may be
called a slouch.

Chris

Holger
--------------------
Slouching is not evidence of anything but resentment. If you have
brutalized someone you can expect them to slouch when you "call
them before you". It is a mode of disrespect, one you DESERVE!!

It's obviously not the way someone should stand or sit properly.
Holger
--------------------------
There is NO "properly", sitting as one wishes is a freedom.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 01:29:10 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 15:35:06 GMT, Christopher Weeks
wrote:

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:

You probably don't realize that there is a correct way to do
everything.

I sure don't. I'm confused about the "correct" way to sit, for
instance. I sort of figure that if your butt is on a chair, bench,
couch, the ground, the back of a car, the edge of a table, etc. and
your weight is mainly supported by that butt, allowing your legs and
feet to rest, then you're sitting correctly. Right?

What does it even mean to sit incorrectly?

It means to sit in a way that leads to injury, short term or long term,
through falling or improper body posture. It means to sit in a way such
that you damage things. There is also a correct way to look at a monitor
and type while you are sitting correctly. Set that up wrong and work at a
computer for a few years. You'll find what incorrect means.

OK, but what's it to you? Everyone does stuff with, for and to their
bodies that could be called sub-optimal. And really, the best way to
look at these factors is through risk assessment. There is a risk that
poor posture will lead to late-life back trauma. There is a risk that
poor wrist positioning will lead to nervous disorders after years of
typing. So those are incorrect, right? What about driving? Is driving
incorrect because there is a risk of injury and death?

I mean, the implications here are pretty broad and it certainly sounds
to many of us like a very broad brush painting along lines of truth are
being used to obscure racism. What's your agenda?

That's what Cosby is trying to tell you. Quit hiding behind racism, and
begin valuing what is right and what is wrong. Try to be someone who
does the right thing. Care about yourself and other people, and care
about how you behave or act. It's very, very, very, very important to
do that. Stop this "I don't give a damn." attitude.

Holger
---------------
Cosby is a rich rightist asshole, he always has been, he has played
golf with Nixon and Reagan, and he's a black racist. The "I don't
give a damn" attitide is a form of disrespect that the white society
has earned with its racist and economic brutality and unfairness!!!

If they don't learn that Cosby is speaking the truth and do something
about it they will end up like so many blacks, in prison. When they
can't get any kind of job except a McJob at McDonalds, many will turn to
crime.
Holger
------------------------
If you REALLY want to do what will correct this you will address the
actual causes, and not the symptoms. You will support the redemption
of blacks by reparations and restoring them to average wealth, average
education, and average jobs by means of the public employment of all
talented blacks to accomplish it, even if it takes ten years of the
gross domestic product of the united states!! For only if they are
rescued by their own people, in their own time, with monies we pay
as a fine for our crimes, will they ALLOW themselves to recognize
help when they see it instead of feeling insulted and humiliated by
white patronization!
Steve

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...

Cosby is so hated by his own children that they'd tell you he doesn't.
Steve

And even if true, this negates the truth of his statements how? Yours is the
classic "ad hominem" criticism which the liberal media is so fond of--
attack the man, never mind his message...

Dan'l.

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 01:26:42 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:

Christopher Weeks wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:

You probably don't realize that there is a correct way to do
everything.

I sure don't. I'm confused about the "correct" way to sit, for
instance. I sort of figure that if your butt is on a chair, bench,
couch, the ground, the back of a car, the edge of a table, etc. and
your weight is mainly supported by that butt, allowing your legs and
feet to rest, then you're sitting correctly. Right?

What does it even mean to sit incorrectly?

Chris

It means to sit in a way that leads to injury, short term or long term,
through falling or improper body posture. It means to sit in a way such
that you damage things. There is also a correct way to look at a monitor
and type while you are sitting correctly. Set that up wrong and work at a
computer for a few years. You'll find what incorrect means.

Slainte,
Fletch
--------------
Irrelevant, slouching is a form of disrespect that you have earned
with your racism and brutality.

It's certainly the wrong way to sit or walk and will prevent you from
getting a decent job and many other good things in life.
Holger
------------------
Your grasp is superficial, and your grip is weak.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 01:44:20 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:36:57 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

It is not "the truth", because "correctness" of pronunciation is not
something that is "true" or "false" but rather is merely opinion.

Now, do you realize what you are saying? Do you know why we have
dictionaries showing pronunciation? So you think that correct
pronunciation is only an opinion? Wrong. In dictionaries, it is the
most accepted pronunciation that has evolved over a long period of time.

Do you think that right and wrong are not facts but opinions?
-----------------
Because there is no right and wrong EXCEPT for human opinion, and
ALL things are ONLY human opinions. If you can change human opinion,
then you can CHANGE THE "TRUTH"!!!


If so, it was people like you who committed the atrocities in the Iraq
prisons. Right and wrong are not opinions. They are absolutes.
-----------------
Nope. You must have been beaten as a child, you're sick. Right and
wrong have changed so much down through history, even recent history,
that nobody but a stupid medievalist can believe that!!


Unfortunately, the son-of-a-bitches who mistreated the Iraq prisoners,
evidently, had no value system and either didn't know right from wrong
or didn't care. They all said, "I was ordered to do that."
-----------------
That's what they SAY. They clearly enjoyed it. The Iraqis should be
abused until they give up. I don't give a flying **** if we tease and
rape them in prison, it doesn't bother me at all! I BELIEVE IT IS
RIGHT, because they don't have a fair secular democratic government,
and we're trying to make them create one by force. We HAVE the right
to do that to rescue even the few Iraqis who know that they DESERVE
western freedoms!! To me, THAT'S the highest good, and NOT their
safety!! A govt which is not fair, secular, and democratic (and only
lastly so), is a criminal gang and anyone opposing us should be tortured
to death!!


That is
totally irrelevant. You stand up for right and do not do wrong
regardless of what any superior officer orders you to do.
----------------------------
Unless they're wrong. Those soldiers KNEW in their heart of hearts
that the Iraqi culture and religion needs to have its back broken
before they can ever be civilized, and before our soldiers' deaths
can be justified!!!


If a superior officer had said, "Here, take this sword and cut that
prisoner's head off.", these fools may have done it. You never obey a
superior when he/she is wrong.
Holger
---------------------------
They did it not because they were WRONG, but because they were RIGHT,
you ****ing dope, they just didn't dare to SAY that TRUTH!!
Steve

Steve, you are dangerous to society and also to yourself.
--------------------
No I'm not. You're lying and posturing wildly.


We want to
get rid of people who think like you do in our military and also in the
non military world.
------------------------
Gee. We want to get rid of the military.


Your kind will cause the death of many of the 135,000 American soldiers
who are still in Iraq.
---------------------------
Nope, I believe in the war in Iraq, we should kill lots more of them.
I think we should do it by agitating for a crusade of volunters five
million strong to invade and totally destroy Islam.


You are way, way, way off base. Somehow you do not know what is right
and what is wrong.
-----------------------------
You are unfit to decide such things about anyone else.

Somehow people have lost their grasp of the knowledge that if you are
going to risk your children's lives, that you let them kill ANY AND
ALL OF THEIR ENEMIES EVEN IF JUST FOR THREATENING THEM! Or else you
won't get your kids back!!! There is NO crime in war, NONE!!
Steve


Steve