Bill Cosby - NAACP leaders stunned by remarks of prominent comedian

On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:28:42 -0500, Obbie L Kirk
wrote:


Neither of Bill Cosby's comments would have been blown out of
proportion like the way it is now, if he would have came to present them
in a better forum. And fortunately, I'm very proud to say that it's not
too late for our brother Bill to come back and help set the record
straight! Either he can raise the money or fund/promote his own tour in
order to reach out to most the citizens living in todays Black communities
throughout america!

Obbie mah man, the forum was in regards to how far blacks have come
since the Board v Brown decision 50 years ago. Seems to me like ol'
Bill picked as good a place as any to issue his challenge to
present-day black folks.

I think yer correct to suggest that he go on tour to all the 'hoods
across the land and reiterate his message; it's a message that far
too many young blacks, in particular, need to get thru their ears.
And he can certainly afford to pay for it himself.

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:36:55 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

black-savage-Ethiopian-American women
Holger
---------------
You're a racist **** and you deserve to be killed.

What part of black-savage-Ethiopian-American do you not understand?

What percentage of blacks in this country have any Ethiopian ancestry?

Your ancestors were definitely black

We have no idea what color anyone's ancestors were.

and were and had been savages for
thousands of years hunting with spears and they may have even had bows
and arrows. They ate wildebeest, antelope, monkeys, guineas, hyenas,
wild dogs and each other, etc., etc., etc.

That is true for all of mankind.

They were captured by black savages and sold to white savages who took
them across the ocean, primarily to Brazil, but they brought your
ancestors to America.

You seem to think that everyone who disagrees with you is descended
from black slaves.

There is nothing racist about it.

Your assumptions clearly are. They also are wrong.

Although slavery is very wrong, and
should be abolished all over the world, look how fortunate you are to
be living in America instead of living like your relatives do today in
Africa.

I have no relatives in Africa, except those that are your relatives
too.

And, if your ancestors had been carried to Brazil, you, more
than likely, would never have existed because most of them died.

Whose ancestors were carried to Brazil, and why is Brazil relevant?
Sounds like some fractured history.

However, you do not owe anything to the descendants of the white people
who owned you after you came here.

No one you are talking to was owned by white people (or anyone else),
and indeed probably most of us were born here.

You make no sense.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

On Mon, 31 May 2004 12:17:18 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:36:55 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

black-savage-Ethiopian-American women
Holger
---------------
You're a racist **** and you deserve to be killed.

What part of black-savage-Ethiopian-American do you not understand?

What percentage of blacks in this country have any Ethiopian ancestry?

Your ancestors were definitely black

We have no idea what color anyone's ancestors were.

Yes we do. Black people in America have relatives who are descendants
in Africa of the relatives of the black people in America at the time
they were captured by black savages in Africa.

and were and had been savages for
thousands of years hunting with spears and they may have even had bows
and arrows. They ate wildebeest, antelope, monkeys, guineas, hyenas,
wild dogs and each other, etc., etc., etc.

That is true for all of mankind.

Not at all. Haven't you ever heard of the Greek and Roman
civilizations, for instance?

They were captured by black savages and sold to white savages who took
them across the ocean, primarily to Brazil, but they brought your
ancestors to America.

You seem to think that everyone who disagrees with you is descended
from black slaves.

What an absurd remark.

There is nothing racist about it.

Your assumptions clearly are. They also are wrong.

Although slavery is very wrong, and
should be abolished all over the world, look how fortunate you are to
be living in America instead of living like your relatives do today in
Africa.

I have no relatives in Africa, except those that are your relatives
too.

My ancestors did not live in Africa.

And, if your ancestors had been carried to Brazil, you, more
than likely, would never have existed because most of them died.

Whose ancestors were carried to Brazil, and why is Brazil relevant?
Sounds like some fractured history.

However, you do not owe anything to the descendants of the white people
who owned you after you came here.

No one you are talking to was owned by white people (or anyone else),
and indeed probably most of us were born here.

Of course, you were born here. And, your ancestors were originally
black savages in Africa.

You make no sense.

lojbab

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

On Mon, 24 May 2004 01:36:33 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Info Junkie wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 11:54:41 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

"snip"

We do not have time machines, and we are not responsible for the deed of
people who lived many years before we were born.
--------------------
Not unless we still have benefit of the wealth they stole through
slavery, AND collectively, we DO!!!! That amounts to the possesion
of lost or stolen property, and ANY disparity of wealth that we have
allowed to afflict new generations of blacks, because of our ongoing
greed in NOT returning our ill-gotten gain, this is ALSO our debt!!

This is why we owe blacks complete restoration to the wealth and
position, power, and education they would have had they been white!!
Because Color WAS the distinguishing feature that identified them as
slaves for hundreds of years, deprived them of family, tribe, and
culture, and left them in this condition.

Oh my. Where should such monies for "reparations" (which is what you're speaking
of) come from:
---------------------------------
Confiscated wealthy from all the wealthy.

So you wish the government to take monies from the wealthy (whatever "wealthy"
means) to give to blacks, not based on law, but because you believe it o be
"right". Understood.

What's even more interesting is your snippage, without the courtesy of informing
the readers that you'vr done so, of the following questions ask of you...and
you've ignored:

So let's try again, shall we?

(Second request):
1. Would you include receiving monies(from) those that originally captured and
(then) sold them into slavery?

2. What of those whose families owned no slaves, and were in fact against
slavery? Would you "pick their pocket" for "reparations" as well?

3. What, do we "owe blacks" that are descedants of black slave owners Mr Walz?
Or are you claiming only white people were slave owners in this country.

For that matter we also owe each child born into our society their
own residence, free and clear, simply because 500 generations of the
labor of our collective ancestors slaving for the rich have already
earned them that inheritance, and by right of equality they each
should already own and control their fair share of the entire earth!!

Where do you get "500 generations"?
------------------------------------
It doesn't matter, moron, it's not specific, nor does it have to be.

You make the assertion, you provide the evidence.

Blacks are the only ones who can help themselves.
------------------
That doesn't happen, there is no "Free Will", we are products of
our experience, and nothing else, and we cannot change what
circumstances have made us think and what we do because of it.
We can only wait for new circumstances and experiences, or others
to affect our thinking.

This may be true for animals Mr Walz,
-------------------------------
Nope, it's true for ALL beings in the world, your trying to speak
of self-awareness, not realizing that self-awareness has nothing
whatsoever to do with "Free Will", you obviously need some college
philosophy coursework.

One that believes as you do also knows there are opposing theories that dispute
your belief.

but many times people change their ways
because of their experiences...some to improve themselves, some to enact
reverge, some to wallow in self-pity.
---------------------------
Yes, they change because of experiences, ansd without those important
lucky, formative experiences, they do NOT!! In other words, they do
NOT have "Free Will".

Now by asserting these people have obtained new experiences, they are "lucky".
Doesn't sound very "scientific", at least to use as any sort of "proof" of your
belief over opposing theories.

If there was no such thing as "free will"
Mr Walz, all individual outcomes would be predictible for each of us. throughout
history.
-------------------------------
No, they would merely be unary, ONLY one final outcome, which is
true.

Yet based on your beleief, the "ONLY one final outcome" would be the same for
all individuals, and be at the least easily predicatible.

The notion that they must be predictable relies upon your ability
to fathom the totality of the science of causation, which neither
you nor other lower animals have.

The only thing that may now be predictible in your posts, is that you've begun
down the path of ad hominem.

I may suggest since you believe you fully understand the aetiology of human
nature, you publish your works and disprove those with far more knowledge in
this field than you or I, wrt your belief on "free will".

Everyone is
responsible by his past choices or decisions for his present condition
in life.
---------------------
Nope, a hundred TIMES more decisions by OTHERS produce our mind in
our lives than those we even CALL our own, and our own and also merely
the result of cause and effect outside of us. Saying we're responsible
only says that we are who suffers, it does NOT make us able to change
ourselves on whim, without reasons that would compel us beyond our
control.

How unfortunate all of your decisions (which you believe are not
your own apparently)
----------------------
I cannot control what I am, and obviously neither can you, or someone
so pitifully unable to argue as YOU are would OTHERWISE do far better!

While you may not be able to control WHO you are, only you may control HOW you
implement your beliefs. While there are consequences for ones actions,
implementation of ones own beliefs that determine the extent of your "free
will". To suggest you can not is not only foolish, but self-defeating.

will dictate all of the decisions your
children will make when they are grown, and the children beyond
them.
----------------------
No, children are affected not only by MY input, but by a hundred times
MORE uncontrolled experiences in their life in the world.

Children may be "effected" by their parents input, but it does not determine HOW
they would implement their actions based on your beliefs, and in the manner you
would implement your actions based on your beliefs, nor are their actions
predictible. If their experiences are "uncontrolled", they may implement their
actions far differently than others would, and no "ability to fathom the
totality of the science of causation" wrt predictiblity will change that.

How sad for you and yours, as there have been many, many others
that have decided (free will) not to share your
state of self-pity.
------------------------
No, that is merely their mistaken belief that they are unable to
change because they have no "Free WIll", they were brainwashed
with such crap and have never had to examine it logically.

Whose "mistaken belief"? If you believe neither your parents nor yourself had
"free will", then both you and your parents (and subsequently your children)
were also "brainwashed", ergo you'd have no ability to "examine" what was or was
not "crap" nor think "logically".

Your condition or the circumstances that you are living in
today are a direct result of your decisions in the past. You are also
responsible for your future. Not anyone else. Just you.
Holger
----------------------
Sorry, we are NOT islands, divisible from the rest, we are literally
produced and created by the actions of others, and everything we are
came from outside us and beyond our control. We owe each other support
and fairness!! We are a group species, a group cultural mind.

If this were true Mr Walz, one would be a robot or a domesticated and herded
animal.
---------------------------
No, that is not what a robot or a cow is, those are mechanical or
organic devices that have no self-awareness, but as I have told you
AND SHOWED you with a simple thought-experiment, self-awareness has
nothing whatsoever to do with "Free WIll". Self-awareness does NOT
include some magical ability to change what you think about your
existence, even though self-awaress does think ABOUT its existence
and models its existence internally in its mind as a means of perceiving
the past!

Pyscho-babble.

If we could change what we thought we would go totally insane almost
immediately because we would decide to think we were elsewhere in
some life and location that we preferred far better and we would leave
this reality and perhaps leave behind a catatonic body abandoned by
any person in touch with reality. We would mentally mastrubate our
mind into insanity and total loss of reality if given whimsical
control of what we believe!! That's the prime reason we CANNOT HAVE
"Free Will", because it would make Reality itself and individual
coherent lives IMPOSSIBLE!!!

More Pyscho-babble. If one does not learn Mr Walz, one remains a child. How one
implements what has been learned determines ones future. OTOH, some have learned
to change not only what they've learned previously may be incorrect, but have
made appropriate changes in how they implement their new experieces, including
how they treat others...none of which were predictible.

While you may believe it is true for you Mr Walz,
------------------------
Don't be a disingenuous ****, you dummy, you know full well that I
hold it to be true of everyone forever and always!! AND YOU KNOW
THAT I CAN PROVE IT TO YOU AND YOU DON'T WISH TO ADMIT IT!!!

(And your ad hominem becomes more shrill - as predicted above)

Admit "what" Mr Walz? Areyou claiming you can not learn anymore than you already
have ("I hold it to be true of everyone forever and always!!")...or just that
you refuse to admit that what you've have learned to date may be, at least in
part, incorrect? That you believe there is no "free will" Mr Walz, may be true
for you, but is a theory that is disputed even among professionals.

"Environment is responsible for over half of the variance in the trait. Note
that ‘environment’ includes not only the circumstances of a person’s upbringing,
this is just its most obvious and important aspect, ‘environment’ also includes
everything that is not inheritable, all the non-genetic factors that might be
relevant, from experimental error to free will. "
(http://www.bioethics.net/genetics/ge...&articleID=759)

If no such thing a "free will" exists Mr Walz, why is such a phrase considered
by the American Journal of Bioethics as a "trait", even part of ones
"environment"? Are you claiming they are wrong and only you are correct?

You were brainwashed with Rightist moronic "individuality" and
"self-reliance", so that you could justify Rightist abuses of
those less fortunate in life, because you don't even grasping that
those are nothing but fatuous MYTHS!

What is clear Mr Walz, is what you believe far exceeds what you know Mr Walz, My
upbringing ("brainwashed" to you) was quite center to left-of-center...I "grew
up" and learned the world is not so (pardon the pun) "black and white".

Much of what I was taught was similar to the baloney you are spewing Mr Walz.
This was quite evident when you snipped my questions to you wrt "reparations" Mr
Walz, as you did not wish to deal with them as facts not "myths". Instead,
moving to fallacvies of distration rather than staying on-topic wrt
"reparations".

fortunately there are
many that refuse to wallow in your type of self-pity and have raised themselves
up from whatever position they originally started...regardless of race and
without any need for "reparations".
---------------------------
No, those who think they did were merely lucky,

Hmmm. I thought it was based upon "upon your ability
to fathom the totality of the science of causation'?

and wish to take
phony credit for it, and believe that either they did it all by
themselves, which is nonsense to anyone acquainted with cause and
effect in physics, and who doesn't try to separate it from real
LIFE.

Which has differing, and disputible theories., none of which are appllicable to
reparations.

This allows them an excuse to keep their ill-gotten wealth
and allows them to think they can justify their abuses of those
less fortunate.

So even those blacks that ae wealthy was accomplished by "ill-gotten" means and
not talent, and should have their wealth "confiscated" beacuse they only use
their wealth so "they can justify their abuses of those less fortunate"?

It's mostly the greedy self-indulgent excuses of
the thief and bandit that motivates the Rightist to justify their
unfairly gotten wealth by pretending that "Free Will" exists, when
every logical argument trashes that Myth totally!

If "every logical argument" shows there is no such thing as "free will" Mr Walz,
I may only suggest you publish your book quickly, to quickly put this "myth" to
rest, won't you? ROTFLMHO

wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:35:19 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

greccogirl wrote:





---------------
Cosby is a rich rightist asshole, he always has been, he has played
golf with Nixon and Reagan, and he's a black racist. The "I don't
give a damn" attitide is a form of disrespect that the white society
has earned with its racist and economic brutality and unfairness!!!
Steve

Well I've heard a lot of weird stuff but labeling Cosby as a racist is
quite amusing. Besides what you're not getting, is the form of
"disrespect" that you think hurts white America is really just hurting
black America. It isn't hurting those they think they are hurting.
That is what Cosby is trying to say
-----------------------
Cosby has always hung out with the GOP, he's a log-cabin repub dildo.
Or didn't you know that, he's a ****ing Oreo.
Steve

Do I detect a bit of jealousy in yours and the others' tone.
---------------
He's ****ing ignorant and evil, why would I or anyone be jealous!


The man made a lot of money,
----------------
Thieves don't impress me


contributed heavily to worthy charities
------------------
The RNC isn't a charity.


and educational programs and you and the others start with the
name calling.
-----------------------
Everything he pays for is self-serving on his part.


It would do
you well to take stock in what you're doing for your community instead of
expecting Bill Cosby to come to your sorry assed rescue.
-----------------
**** rescue, I only want that sad little liar to shut the **** up!
Steve

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:

R. Steve Walz wrote:
Fletch F. Fletch wrote:

greccogirl wrote:
---------------
Cosby is a rich rightist asshole, he always has been, he has played
golf with Nixon and Reagan, and he's a black racist. The "I don't
give a damn" attitide is a form of disrespect that the white
society has earned with its racist and economic brutality and
unfairness!!! Steve

Well I've heard a lot of weird stuff but labeling Cosby as a racist
is quite amusing. Besides what you're not getting, is the form of
"disrespect" that you think hurts white America is really just
hurting black America. It isn't hurting those they think they are
hurting. That is what Cosby is trying to say

In case you haven't figured it out yet, R. Steve Walz pretty much
likes to tell you the way it is and call people names. Period.
Gets old quick.

Slainte,
Fletch
--------------
And scares the racist **** who can't handle it.
Steve

Case in point.

Slainte,
Fletch
------------
You SUUURE are!
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:36:55 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

black-savage-Ethiopian-American women
Holger
---------------
You're a racist **** and you deserve to be killed.

Lions in their den tremble at your approach. :-)
--------------------
Ain't any.


Holger

Ignore that racist asshole.
Steve
--------------------
Steve

wrote:

Obbie L Kirk wrote:

... I'm very proud to say that it's not
too late for our brother Bill to come back and help set the record
straight! Either he can raise the money or fund/promote his own tour in
order to reach out to most the citizens living in todays Black communities
throughout america!

Can't the IQ-75 OOW_Breeding LOOZerz do anything on your own
without *help* ??
--------------------------
You clearly cannot.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:36:55 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

black-savage-Ethiopian-American women
Holger
---------------
You're a racist **** and you deserve to be killed.

What part of black-savage-Ethiopian-American do you not understand?
--------------------
You part where you lie like a racist ****.


Your ancestors were definitely black
--------------------------
Not in about 60,000 years.


and were and had been savages for
thousands of years hunting with spears and they may have even had bows
and arrows. They ate wildebeest, antelope, monkeys, guineas, hyenas,
wild dogs and each other, etc., etc., etc.
--------------------------------
Actually, the out of Africa folks, if this is what you allude to,
were South Africans, not Ethiopeans, and they were not savages, as
there aren't any such thing. And no cannibalism is documented.


They were captured by black savages and sold to white savages who took
them across the ocean, primarily to Brazil, but they brought your
ancestors to America.
------------------------------
Now you have history all confused. Most black American slaves were
west coastal Africans.


There is nothing racist about it. Although slavery is very wrong, and
should be abolished all over the world, look how fortunate you are to
be living in America instead of living like your relatives do today in
Africa.
--------------------
Are you under the delusion that I'm black?
You repub racists can never figure out why whites would support blacks,
can you? More of your racism!


And, if your ancestors had been carried to Brazil, you, more
than likely, would never have existed because most of them died.
-----------------------------------
Nope, and nope.


However, you do not owe anything to the descendants of the white people
who owned you after you came here. In the first place they are, in no
way, responsible for what their ancestors did.

Holger
------------------
Except if they benefitted from it economically with respect to blacks.

And again, you're of the delusion that I'm black, obviously. I'm German
and English and Irish and Scot and Native American (1/8th). I'm as
pink as you are!
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 12:17:18 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:36:55 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

black-savage-Ethiopian-American women
Holger
---------------
You're a racist **** and you deserve to be killed.

What part of black-savage-Ethiopian-American do you not understand?

What percentage of blacks in this country have any Ethiopian ancestry?

Your ancestors were definitely black

We have no idea what color anyone's ancestors were.

Yes we do. Black people in America have relatives who are descendants
in Africa of the relatives of the black people in America at the time
they were captured by black savages in Africa.
----------------------
Yeah, WEST africa.


and were and had been savages for
thousands of years hunting with spears and they may have even had bows
and arrows. They ate wildebeest, antelope, monkeys, guineas, hyenas,
wild dogs and each other, etc., etc., etc.

That is true for all of mankind.

Not at all. Haven't you ever heard of the Greek and Roman
civilizations, for instance?
-----------------------------
You think that Romans didn't hunt animals with spears? They were still
killing lions on the Appian way in the first two centuries A.D. They
did this with spears, and not iron ones either.


They were captured by black savages and sold to white savages who took
them across the ocean, primarily to Brazil, but they brought your
ancestors to America.

You seem to think that everyone who disagrees with you is descended
from black slaves.

What an absurd remark.

There is nothing racist about it.

Your assumptions clearly are. They also are wrong.

Although slavery is very wrong, and
should be abolished all over the world, look how fortunate you are to
be living in America instead of living like your relatives do today in
Africa.

I have no relatives in Africa, except those that are your relatives
too.

My ancestors did not live in Africa.

And, if your ancestors had been carried to Brazil, you, more
than likely, would never have existed because most of them died.

Whose ancestors were carried to Brazil, and why is Brazil relevant?
Sounds like some fractured history.

However, you do not owe anything to the descendants of the white people
who owned you after you came here.

No one you are talking to was owned by white people (or anyone else),
and indeed probably most of us were born here.

Of course, you were born here. And, your ancestors were originally
black savages in Africa.
--------------------------------
Since we're not black, and since you're not talking about the
out-of-Africa theory, you're an idiot.
Steve