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#451
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On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:13:17 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 07:45:10 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: On Mon, 31 May 2004 23:28:12 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: Fat black bucks in a wine-barrel room, ... PLease indicate the relevance of Vachel Lindsay. He wrote the above poem. Duh. Since you didn't mention his name or give him credit, I supplied that information. But why is it relevant? Poetry is seldom considered as factual evidence of anything. It helps set the mood of the way the black savages lived in the bush with flies buzzing around and the smell of hyena and lion doo doo and the stench of carrion in the breeze. You could probably smell the savages a mile away. http://www.bartleby.com/65/li/LindsayV.html Please indicate what in his biography leads you to believe that Vachel Lindsay had any clue how people in Africa live(d). He wrote rhythmic poetry based on then-dominant stereotypes, which had no more in common with reality than your pontifications. Lindsay claimed that the poem tries to synthesize "vaudeville form back towards the old Greek precedent of the half-chanted lyric" and also spoke of it as "a rag-tune epic." This marked desire to fuse ancient poetic culture with more recent Euro- and African-American performance materials is part of Lindsay’s yearning to do something helpful to extirpate racial prejudice (in the aftermath of the Springfield anti-black riots in 1908), a yearning which is totally swamped by the poem’s raucous, sinister primitivisms. These occur under the rubric (in the subtitle) of a "study of the Negro race," which harnesses a social scientific word to the poems observations, as if they were authorized by, and part of, academic studies in an ethnographic mode. A free white gaze upon blacks is part of the power of whiteness. From the first, this poem was taken, by certain readers, as an indication of the failure of white liberalism; it is a bombastic response to the history of white misrule over blacks in the first half of the twentieth century. Confronting the 1908, or 1919, racist riots and lynchings, Lindsay changes the subject to "Africa" and its alleged traits. "The Congo" is a six page poem in three sections. In "Their Basic Savagery," the "Fat black bucks" are like the "Negroes [who] seemed eight feet high" whom Lindsay had seen in the saloons he visited on behalf of the Women’s Christian Temperance Association, men who left him with "a jungle impression." The prurient desire to appropriate and devour such a source of potency is a rich motivator for "whiteness." Lindsay’s black drinkers inspire in his observer an atemporal Africanist "vision" of the Congo River "CREEPING THROUGH THE BLACK, / CUTTING THROUGH THE FOREST WITH A GOLDEN TRACK," with attendant "cannibals" and "sorcerers." The poem maintains a hint of just revenge for the Belgian atrocities in the Congo, but essentially it creates the fear of demonic, unmotivated cannibalism. Terror of blacks seems to be a central element in this construction of whiteness, terror combined with a brave fascination at seeing the "truth" of Africa displayed, even if it threatens to eat one alive. Or, as Lindsay explained: "’Congo, Congo, Congo, Congo, Congo, Congo,’ I said to myself. The word began to haunt. It echoed with the war drums and cannibal yells of Africa" (1915). The address from the "witch-doctors" is directed past the other characters inside the poem to the reader or listener "HOO, HOO, HOO" is the sound that at once warns and threatens. "Be careful what you do, / Or … / Mumbo-Jumbo will hoo-doo you" (Lindsay 1984, 175). Mumbo-Jumbo is a spooky god of demonic power and reach. Lindsay is calling upon the meaning "an object or fetish believed to have supernatural power," but his use also evokes other senses of the word — "gibberish," "nonsense," or "confused and meaningless activity, unintelligible incantation." http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poe...dsay/congo.htm Holger http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm |
#452
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On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:24:03 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: On Mon, 31 May 2004 23:24:48 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: and were and had been savages for thousands of years hunting with spears and they may have even had bows and arrows. They ate wildebeest, antelope, monkeys, guineas, hyenas, wild dogs and each other, etc., etc., etc. That is true for all of mankind. Not at all. Haven't you ever heard of the Greek and Roman civilizations, for instance? Yes. And the Greeks and Romans had ancestors who were uncivilized savages who lived by hunting and gathering, just like all other human beings, and most of the evidence indicates that all of these people ultimate had ancestors who lived in Africa. But we don't know what color those ancestors were. The Greek and Roman civilizations existed about 2,000 years ago. They contributed a great deal to the modern world. Duh. But their ancestors came from Africa just like yours. And even long after they lived in Africa, they were "savages for thousands of years hunting with spears and they may have even had bows and arrows." The Greeks had the greatest ancient civilization. According to who? The Chinese probably feel differently. And what about all those European societies that *weren't* Greek in the same timeframe? What were their contributions to the world? All of those thousands of years the black savages in Africa were just savages contributing nothing to the world. 1) Prove that they were savages. 2) Why should they "contribute something to the world"? The world contributed nothing to them. I'm sure that was the thinking of the very few who ever even thought about contributing anything to the world. They did very little thinking about anything except survival and where their next meal was coming from. Any leisure time was probably spent sitting on a termite mound saying "muhfugger". (in their primitive language, of course) Holger http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm |
#453
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Fletch F. Fletch wrote:
R. Steve Walz wrote: Fletch F. Fletch wrote: R. Steve Walz wrote: Fletch F. Fletch wrote: greccogirl wrote: --------------- Cosby is a rich rightist asshole, he always has been, he has played golf with Nixon and Reagan, and he's a black racist. The "I don't give a damn" attitide is a form of disrespect that the white society has earned with its racist and economic brutality and unfairness!!! Steve Well I've heard a lot of weird stuff but labeling Cosby as a racist is quite amusing. Besides what you're not getting, is the form of "disrespect" that you think hurts white America is really just hurting black America. It isn't hurting those they think they are hurting. That is what Cosby is trying to say In case you haven't figured it out yet, R. Steve Walz pretty much likes to tell you the way it is and call people names. Period. Gets old quick. Slainte, Fletch -------------- And scares the racist **** who can't handle it. Steve Case in point. Slainte, Fletch ------------ You SUUURE are! Steve You just can't help yourself. You need to relax. Unless your goal is to get high blood pressure, you're not getting anywhere. Your pathetic style of debate rarely convinces anybody of anything. But please, keep stamping your feet. Slainte, Fletch -------------- Mind your mind, it's defective. Steve |
#454
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#455
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Holger Dansk wrote:
Holger http://www.mind****.com/~holger1/holger1.htm -------------------- You're a sick ****ing racist ****. Steve |
#456
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Holger Dansk wrote:
Holger http://www.mind****.com/~holger1/holger1.htm --------------------- Cutting and pasting won't excuse you, you racist ****. Steve |
#458
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Holger Dansk wrote:
The Greek and Roman civilizations existed about 2,000 years ago. They contributed a great deal to the modern world. The Greeks had the greatest ancient civilization. All of those thousands of years the black savages in Africa were just savages contributing nothing to the world. Holger http://www.mind****.com/~holger1/holger1.htm -------------------------------- Greeks did nothing but quarrel and fight, the Athenian democracy was impossible without the enslavement of captives taken in often cowardly raids on other more peaceful peoples. The Romans likewise, Rome was 3/5ths slaves when it fell apart. The only thing amazing about that society was how much useless crap architecture could be built by enslaving people and being vicious. Mind you, I even LIKE the Romans, and Latin, which I studied for 5 years and can still SPEAK conversationally! But I like them ONLY as SICK HUMOR and as an alternative example of public sexuality. Your sick vicious racism cannot be excused by more of your cut and paste pseudo-scholarship! Steve |
#459
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"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message ... Mind you, I even LIKE the Romans, and Latin, which I studied for 5 years and can still SPEAK conversationally! SURE you can, BOY |
#460
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Holger Dansk wrote:
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:24:03 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: On Mon, 31 May 2004 23:24:48 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: and were and had been savages for thousands of years hunting with spears and they may have even had bows and arrows. They ate wildebeest, antelope, monkeys, guineas, hyenas, wild dogs and each other, etc., etc., etc. That is true for all of mankind. Not at all. Haven't you ever heard of the Greek and Roman civilizations, for instance? Yes. And the Greeks and Romans had ancestors who were uncivilized savages who lived by hunting and gathering, just like all other human beings, and most of the evidence indicates that all of these people ultimate had ancestors who lived in Africa. But we don't know what color those ancestors were. The Greek and Roman civilizations existed about 2,000 years ago. They contributed a great deal to the modern world. Duh. But their ancestors came from Africa just like yours. And even long after they lived in Africa, they were "savages for thousands of years hunting with spears and they may have even had bows and arrows." The Greeks had the greatest ancient civilization. According to who? The Chinese probably feel differently. And what about all those European societies that *weren't* Greek in the same timeframe? What were their contributions to the world? All of those thousands of years the black savages in Africa were just savages contributing nothing to the world. 1) Prove that they were savages. 2) Why should they "contribute something to the world"? The world contributed nothing to them. I'm sure that was the thinking of the very few who ever even thought about contributing anything to the world. They did very little thinking about anything except survival and where their next meal was coming from. Any leisure time was probably spent sitting on a termite mound saying "muhfugger". (in their primitive language, of course) Holger http://www.mind****.com/~holger1/holger1.htm --------------------------- You're delusional. We lived exactly that way till we had the where- withall to do better, which only happens little by little, and only randomly as an accidental circumstance that permitted improvement. We are no different than they are genetically, or even culturally, as it was only a sick ignorant vicious streak in our culture that allowed us to enslave people without conscience and to abuse other cultures in the world to steal their resources and conquer another continent from its peaceful resiedents, or we'd be living exactly the same way! There's no nobility to western society, in fact we are far more vicious than most of our victim cultures we looted and pillaged and do still to this day! Or at least we have been, we are finally just in the last 40 years beginning to develop a conscience. Steve |
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