Bill Cosby - NAACP leaders stunned by remarks of prominent comedian

On Sat, 22 May 2004 11:44:30 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Only to those who refuse to accept "different" as equal. In other
words, subhuman racists.

That's people like Bill Cosby and I who do not accept people being so
sorry that they do not pronounce English words correctly and don't care
how they pronounce words.

And, that's not only our opinion, but also, the truth. When I say, "To
murder someone is wrong." and you say, "Not necessarily, that's just
your opinion.", then it tells me that you have a screwed up mind like so
many black people that Cosby mentioned that are in prison. That's where
you will end up if you don't change your attitude and get a good sense
of values.

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

On Sat, 22 May 2004 06:46:13 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 06:27:29 -0500, "Donna Metler"
wrote:

I teach in the inner city. And I've heard a lot of very educated people who
can slide back and forth between the local dialect and more formal speech.
Heck, after 7 years, I can do it. So can my students. Dialect and slang is
as much a way of shutting the outside world out as anything else. IOW, they
don't particularly WANT to be understood by people who don't make an effort
to understand them. Same with any other subgroup.


I strongly suggest reading Ruby Payne. She's researched generational poverty
and the social/familial situation around it. A great deal of the things you
seem to be objecting to are features of that particular ses group, not a
specific racial group. Middle class people do not have the same mentalities
and behaviors that the very wealthy culture does (and it takes significant
work for someone who develops wealth later to "fit in" with this culture).
The same holds in generational poverty vs. generational middle class
behaviors.

I can speak incorrectly too. Anyone can. The idea is to speak
correctly.

Below is your post done incorrectly.

I teach in de inna' city. Slap mah fro! And I've heard some lot uh very
educated sucka's who can slide back and fo'd between de local dialect
and mo'e fo'mal speech. Lop some boogie. Heck, afta' 7 years, ah' can do
it. Man! So's can mah' students. Dialect and slang is as much some way
uh shuttin' de outside wo'ld out as nuthin else. IOW, dey duzn't
particularly WANT t'be understood by sucka's who duzn't make an effo't
to dig it dem. WORD! Same wid any oda' subgroup. Jes hang loose, brud. I
strongly suggest eyeballin' Ruby Payne. She's researched generashunal
poverty and da damn social/familial situashun around it. Man! A great
deal uh de doodads ya' seem t'be objectin' t'are features uh dat
particular ses group, not a specific racial group. Jes hang loose, brud.
Middle class sucka's do not gots de same mentalities and behavio's dat
da damn very wealdy culture duz (and it snatch'd significant wo'k fo'
some sucka who develops weald lata' to "fit in" wid dis culture). De
same holds in generashunal poverty vs. generashunal middle class
behavio's.


Your example falls way short of "authentic." You seem to have gotten
sidetracked by jive and slang. Further you wrap it in a traditional
"formal" English structure.

I didn't say anything about authentic. I said that it was the post done
incorrectly.

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

"Fletch F. Fletch" wrote
But it is also clear (at least by what I have
read and my experience) that there is a 1 SD difference between whites and
blacks on standardized tests, asians score even better. In my work
(network
research), I notice that I have many asian and white colleagues, and
almost
no black colleagues.

My colleague situation is exactly the same (software, biotech, genetics).
Such blacks as there are invariably occupy lower rank positions (HR,
security, cafeteria, maintenance). Likewise Hispanics.

It bothers me, but it is what I would expect in my
area from a black gaussian shifted 1 SD to the left.

The same applies at the other end of the spectrum - more retarded blacks
than whites.

As far as I can tell,
this issue is very real, and its causes need to be understood.
As this
problem currently seems to be intractable, ....

Why do you reject the genetic hypothesis? What doesn't the GH explain?

...I'm guessing we don't understand
enough yet.

Or, we do, but the inescapable conclusion is unacceptable, so we demand
further research.

Slainte,
? "Scottish Libraries Across the Internet" ?
Fletch

On Sat, 22 May 2004 11:46:37 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
I can speak incorrectly too. Anyone can. The idea is to speak
correctly.

Below is your post done incorrectly.

[Tripe deleted]

Yep. It is certainly done incorrectly.

That's what I meant it to be.

You can't even imitate black dialect close to correctly. I'll bet that they could speak your
dialect a lot better than you speak theirs.

Not anyone in their right mind would want to speak like, "'Why you
ain't,' 'Where you is' ..., etc. You'll never get anything but a
laboring job speaking that way. Is that all the ambition you have? You
just want a McJob the rest of your life?

They should begin immediately to stop speaking the way they do, and try
to speak correctly.

lojbab

Holger

Stick with what you know, ******, labor!

Red Fox

The Appolo Theater in Harlem when a man
was harrassing him while he was on stage.

"Bob LeChevalier" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Bob and Byron don't want to hear the *truth* either. Do you
suppose they think Cosby is just an *Idiot_Scum_Racist* who
is "not worth arguing with" and should be *PLONKED* ??

And for the record, by the time makemyday posts anything, it has been so
distorted or edited to support his childish notions that it bears no
resemblance to the "truth". Makemyday is a prime example of the low IQ
individuals about which he so often whines.


--
Byron "Barn" Canfield
-----------------------------
"Politics is a strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles."
-- Ambrose Bierce

On Sat, 22 May 2004 11:56:40 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

"Fletch F. Fletch" wrote:
and many do not and/or can not speak English.

They do. But they don't speak your dialect. Nor do you speak the
Queen's dialect, and I'm sure that there are British people who look
down their nose at you for that fault.

But those British people do not sit in nearly all of the seats of power in
this country, so there is no consequence other than the disdain of a few
Brits.

We don't live in Britain, which still has an aristocracy by law. In
this country, all citizens are equal, and to look down on another
citizen for the way they talk is rude and crude.

Bill Cosby is not looking down on anyone. He's trying to help the poor
uneducated blacks. He would like to see them speaking correctly and not
committing so many crimes. Cosby has given tons of money to black
Universities.

Holger

Racists are trying to establish a pseudo-class system in lieu of race,
because technically, class discrimination isn't illegal. But looking
down on any other person for any reason other than their being
intentionally disruptive is simply *wrong*.

The consequence of speaking only ebonics is *obvious*.

It is, but should it be, assuming that you understand the person
correctly?

I had a lot of resentment in high school about a math teachers whose
German accent I simply could not process (and in fact I have a lot of
trouble with foreign accents - though I've never had any trouble
understanding a black person)

I'd fall off
my damn chair if I ever heard a Supreme Court Justice or a Cabinet
Secretary, etc. speaking ebonics and so would you I presume.

I might out of surprise, but I hope not. I have no doubt that
Clarence Thomas and Colin Powell are capable of doing so, and perhaps
they actually do so when they let their hair down. So what?

lojbab


Stick with what you know, ******, labor!

Red Fox

The Appolo Theater in Harlem when a man
was harrassing him while he was on stage.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:05:40 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

You also can't be a doctor with the word "crap" coming out of your
mouth.

Oh yes you can. Of course you can. Doctors are very familiar with
crap. They often put on the gloves and stick their finger up a rectum
to feel the prostate, etc. There is nothing holy about a doctor. Over
100,000 people each year are killed by the mistakes of doctors and
nurses.

But you can be a Doctor of Education and a comedian.

Cosby does not have to have a degree of any kind to know right from
wrong. Neither does anyone else.

The link works fine for me. It's:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May18.html

Holger

Stick with what you know, ******, labor!

Red Fox

The Appolo Theater in Harlem when a man
was harrassing him while he was on stage.

"EKurtz" wrote in message
...
"Fletch F. Fletch" wrote
But it is also clear (at least by what I have
read and my experience) that there is a 1 SD difference between whites
and
blacks on standardized tests, asians score even better. In my work
(network
research), I notice that I have many asian and white colleagues, and
almost
no black colleagues.

My colleague situation is exactly the same (software, biotech, genetics).
Such blacks as there are invariably occupy lower rank positions (HR,
security, cafeteria, maintenance). Likewise Hispanics.

It bothers me, but it is what I would expect in my
area from a black gaussian shifted 1 SD to the left.

The same applies at the other end of the spectrum - more retarded blacks
than whites.

As far as I can tell,
this issue is very real, and its causes need to be understood.
As this
problem currently seems to be intractable, ....

Why do you reject the genetic hypothesis? What doesn't the GH explain?

...I'm guessing we don't understand
enough yet.

Or, we do, but the inescapable conclusion is unacceptable, so we demand
further research.

Must be nice to be omniscient.


--
"There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary numbers and those who don't."
-----------------------------
Byron "Barn" Canfield

Holger Dansk wrote:
With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever
listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful
person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian.

I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about
education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that
while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were
performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context
as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his
remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets
that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his
comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in
exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about
special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was
just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and
offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on
a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with
elements of both.

Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search
engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without
the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event
on them. He was serious, of course.

I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"? Your parody? No they don't speak "that way".
They don't use Standard Midwestern American English dialect (i.e. TV
network dialect) either.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

Joni Rathbun wrote:
Bob, I don't think Cosby would make these remarks *just* to be funny.

I agree.

I believe he was mostly serious tho perhaps a bit exaggerated.

I'm sure that the THRUST of his comments was serious, but the specific
words were probably chosen to try to defuse the tension caused by such
serious statements with a little humor. The fact that he used "crap"
in a sentence describing how the doctor would NOT talk is what struck
me as evidence of tongue-in-cheek.

The conversation often centers on why things are the way they are
and, perhaps, addressing the symptoms. We hear from the racist
crowd here that blacks are pre-destined for failure as a result
of genetics and IQ. Others rightfully speak out against such
nonsense.

Meanwhile, Cosby and others are saying enough with the accusations
and excuses already; just get out there and make something of yourself.
Ultimately, you are the master of your own reality.

I agree entirely.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org