Bill Cosby - NAACP leaders stunned by remarks of prominent comedian

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:43:20 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
We don't live in Britain, which still has an aristocracy by law. In
this country, all citizens are equal, and to look down on another
citizen for the way they talk is rude and crude.

Bill Cosby is not looking down on anyone.

I know he isn't. But you are, racist.

That's so pitiful. How many times are you going to say that? The truth
must hurt a great deal.

lojbab

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:48:54 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:05:40 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:
You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

You also can't be a doctor with the word "crap" coming out of your
mouth.

Oh yes you can. Of course you can. Doctors are very familiar with
crap.

You surely mean "fecal material", or are you an ignorant racist
buffoon. Oops, we know the answer.

They often put on the gloves and stick their finger up a rectum
to feel the prostate, etc. There is nothing holy about a doctor. Over
100,000 people each year are killed by the mistakes of doctors and
nurses.

I was referring to the word, which is not considered a word "properly"
used by an educated person such as a doctor, no matter where he sticks
his hand.

That is utterly ridiculous. Doctors would not think anything about
using the word, "crap". Many do not refer to your testicles and your
scrotum, but call it your cod sack. Doctors are not sissies.

When someone complains about someone else's proper speech,
and uses the word "crap" to describe that speech, they are either
being crude or funny, and I doubt that Cosby was being crude.

He was just speaking like Cosby speaks when he's serious.

You think that "crap" is proper English used by doctors.

Of course, it's fine. Do you think they are so stilted that they say,
"They just have fecal matter coming out of their mouths."? That would
be a stilted, affected remark. Doctors are usually not like old fuddy
duddy old maids.

lojbab

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever
listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful
person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian.

I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about
education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that
while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were
performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context
as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his
remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets
that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his
comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in
exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about
special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was
just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and
offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on
a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with
elements of both.

Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search
engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without
the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event
on them. He was serious, of course.

I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.


Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of
"Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing
execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do.

Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom
I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition
when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard.
We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics
world or that they don't know. They make choices and the reasons
for those choices are many.

I work with one woman (a support staff member, not a teacher) who
cannot speak formal English. It grates on my nerves after a while
because she talks nonstop. But interestingly, her three children are
all quite skilled at formal English. That's all I've ever heard
them speak when they come to visit. All are well educated and
successful too. Not a loser in the bunch. So she and her husband
must have done something right.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever
listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful
person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian.

I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about
education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that
while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were
performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context
as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his
remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets
that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his
comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in
exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about
special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was
just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and
offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on
a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with
elements of both.

Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search
engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without
the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event
on them. He was serious, of course.

I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.


Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of
"Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing
execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do.

Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom
I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition
when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard.
We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics
world or that they don't know.

Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen,
the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING.

He does not say, "all blacks".

They make choices and the reasons for those choices are many.

I work with one woman (a support staff member, not a teacher) who
cannot speak formal English. It grates on my nerves after a while
because she talks nonstop. But interestingly, her three children are
all quite skilled at formal English. That's all I've ever heard
them speak when they come to visit. All are well educated and
successful too. Not a loser in the bunch. So she and her husband
must have done something right.

We are not saying that all blacks can not speak English, but just a lot
of them.

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:

Christopher Weeks wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:

[Blacks] don't understand that they should value
education and speaking, walking, sitting, etc., correctly.

Are you serious? Do the rest of us all think this is hilarious, or is
it just me?

Chris

Not much on this issue is hilarious. Clearly there are racists unleashing
their hatred around here. But it is also clear (at least by what I have
read and my experience) that there is a 1 SD difference between whites and
blacks on standardized tests, asians score even better. In my work (network
research), I notice that I have many asian and white colleagues, and almost
no black colleagues. It bothers me, but it is what I would expect in my
area from a black gaussian shifted 1 SD to the left. As far as I can tell,
this issue is very real, and its causes need to be understood. As this
problem currently seems to be intractable, I'm guessing we don't understand
enough yet.

Slainte,
Fletch
---------------
Results of IQ tests are meaningless, they only assess the results
of circumstances, they do NOT identify the causal origin of those
harmful circumstances. The cause is racism and the results of racism
in the attitudes of blacks.

Blacks long ago were tested for learning ability in large numbers
and it was determined that they have exactly the same ability to
learn at all levels of complexity, as whites, and as asians as well.

The disparity occurs due to attitudes toward white society and white
culture, and not because they are unable. They have been so brutalized
by racism and economic unfairness that they see any emulation of
anything that even MIGHT be seen as white as a betrayal of their own
kind.

The only way to defeat such a hatred is to pay reparations to blacks
and restore their standard of living that has been stolen from them,
by buying them homes, and buying them talented black tutors and
re-education and retraining by other talented blacks, and then giving
them jobs in black-owned businesses and industries until they have
an equal income tothe American average, then and ONLY then can they
feel that what had once been stolen from them by slavery and racism
has been restored and ON THEIR OWN TERMS! ONLY THEN will they feel
that those who robbed them have payed for their crimes!!

Even if that takes a decade of this nations GDP we will still have
to do it to finally correct the results of slavery and racism.
Steve

EKurtz wrote:

"Fletch F. Fletch" wrote
But it is also clear (at least by what I have
read and my experience) that there is a 1 SD difference between whites and
blacks on standardized tests, asians score even better. In my work
(network
research), I notice that I have many asian and white colleagues, and
almost
no black colleagues.

My colleague situation is exactly the same (software, biotech, genetics).
Such blacks as there are invariably occupy lower rank positions (HR,
security, cafeteria, maintenance). Likewise Hispanics.

It bothers me, but it is what I would expect in my
area from a black gaussian shifted 1 SD to the left.

The same applies at the other end of the spectrum - more retarded blacks
than whites.

As far as I can tell,
this issue is very real, and its causes need to be understood.
As this
problem currently seems to be intractable, ....

Why do you reject the genetic hypothesis? What doesn't the GH explain?
-----------------------
Oh, just the research and the evidence, you ****ing idiot.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 10:20:33 GMT, Christopher Weeks
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

You probably don't realize that there is a correct way to do everything.

I sure don't. I'm confused about the "correct" way to sit, for
instance. I sort of figure that if your butt is on a chair, bench,
couch, the ground, the back of a car, the edge of a table, etc. and your
weight is mainly supported by that butt, allowing your legs and feet to
rest, then you're sitting correctly. Right?

What does it even mean to sit incorrectly?

Slouching is very incorrect. It means to walk, stand, or sit with a
slouch. A slouch is a loose or drooping gait or posture. It's usually
indicative of a lazy or incompetent person, who, by the way, may be
called a slouch.

Chris

Holger
--------------------
Slouching is not evidence of anything but resentment. If you have
brutalized someone you can expect them to slouch when you "call
them before you". It is a mode of disrespect, one you DESERVE!!
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:43 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
Slouching is very incorrect. It means to walk, stand, or sit with a
slouch. A slouch is a loose or drooping gait or posture. It's usually
indicative of a lazy or incompetent person, who, by the way, may be
called a slouch.

What makes it incorrect? What makes the lack of a slouch superior?

The same thing that makes walking with a drooping gait not the proper
way to walk unless you are trying to look like a clown.

Who are YOU to define what is "proper" and what isn't "proper" in
walking or any other activity, racist?

I'm someone who knows the proper way to speak and walk and sit and
behave. I grew up in a home and all of the family knew these things and
associated primarily with other people who do.

You stand up straight when you walk.

Does he? How do you know?

Everyone should stand up straight when they walk.
----------------
Not because you tell them to, in fact not, if you tell them to!!!!
Steve

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:

Christopher Weeks wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:

You probably don't realize that there is a correct way to do
everything.

I sure don't. I'm confused about the "correct" way to sit, for
instance. I sort of figure that if your butt is on a chair, bench,
couch, the ground, the back of a car, the edge of a table, etc. and
your weight is mainly supported by that butt, allowing your legs and
feet to rest, then you're sitting correctly. Right?

What does it even mean to sit incorrectly?

Chris

It means to sit in a way that leads to injury, short term or long term,
through falling or improper body posture. It means to sit in a way such
that you damage things. There is also a correct way to look at a monitor
and type while you are sitting correctly. Set that up wrong and work at a
computer for a few years. You'll find what incorrect means.

Slainte,
Fletch
--------------
Irrelevant, slouching is a form of disrespect that you have earned
with your racism and brutality.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 15:35:06 GMT, Christopher Weeks
wrote:

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:

You probably don't realize that there is a correct way to do
everything.

I sure don't. I'm confused about the "correct" way to sit, for
instance. I sort of figure that if your butt is on a chair, bench,
couch, the ground, the back of a car, the edge of a table, etc. and
your weight is mainly supported by that butt, allowing your legs and
feet to rest, then you're sitting correctly. Right?

What does it even mean to sit incorrectly?

It means to sit in a way that leads to injury, short term or long term,
through falling or improper body posture. It means to sit in a way such
that you damage things. There is also a correct way to look at a monitor
and type while you are sitting correctly. Set that up wrong and work at a
computer for a few years. You'll find what incorrect means.

OK, but what's it to you? Everyone does stuff with, for and to their
bodies that could be called sub-optimal. And really, the best way to
look at these factors is through risk assessment. There is a risk that
poor posture will lead to late-life back trauma. There is a risk that
poor wrist positioning will lead to nervous disorders after years of
typing. So those are incorrect, right? What about driving? Is driving
incorrect because there is a risk of injury and death?

I mean, the implications here are pretty broad and it certainly sounds
to many of us like a very broad brush painting along lines of truth are
being used to obscure racism. What's your agenda?

That's what Cosby is trying to tell you. Quit hiding behind racism, and
begin valuing what is right and what is wrong. Try to be someone who
does the right thing. Care about yourself and other people, and care
about how you behave or act. It's very, very, very, very important to
do that. Stop this "I don't give a damn." attitude.

Holger
---------------
Cosby is a rich rightist asshole, he always has been, he has played
golf with Nixon and Reagan, and he's a black racist. The "I don't
give a damn" attitide is a form of disrespect that the white society
has earned with its racist and economic brutality and unfairness!!!
Steve