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Bill Cosby - NAACP leaders stunned by remarks of prominent comedian



 
 
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  #71  
Old May 23rd 04, 02:32 AM
R. Steve Walz
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wrote:

Donna Metler wrote:

I teach in the inner city. And I've heard a lot of very educated people who
can slide back and forth between the local dialect and more formal speech.
Heck, after 7 years, I can do it. So can my students. Dialect and slang is
as much a way of shutting the outside world out as anything else. IOW, they
don't particularly WANT to be understood by people who don't make an effort
to understand them. Same with any other subgroup.


A characteristic of the IQ-75z is an inability to grazp the causez
of their problemz.

----------------------
Ignorant little white ****s like you are the cause of their problems.


Why would a group, that'z alwayz screaming
about being excluded, intentionally want to "shut out the outside
world" (your wordz) ??

-------------------------
As a reaction to being excluded, of course, you blithering idiot!!


A group that wants to be accepted should be trying to *minimize* the
cultural differences.

-------------------------
And someone who wants to suck up to the king should bow down and kiss
his feet. But what if you have some self-respect??


This warped IQ-75_Mindset is responsible for
all the organizations (Black Student Union, Black this, black that, etc)
emphasizing that DAFNz are *different*. Absolutely the wrong approach
for acceptance...

-----------------------
They have given up on the acceptance that NO blacks have EVER gotten.
Steve
  #72  
Old May 23rd 04, 02:35 AM
R. Steve Walz
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Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 11:44:30 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Only to those who refuse to accept "different" as equal. In other
words, subhuman racists.


That's people like Bill Cosby and I who do not accept people being so
sorry that they do not pronounce English words correctly and don't care
how they pronounce words.

And, that's not only our opinion, but also, the truth. When I say, "To
murder someone is wrong."

-------------------
You mean kill, murder is a judgement about a killing that isn't yours
to make.


and you say, "Not necessarily, that's just
your opinion.", then it tells me that you have a screwed up mind like so
many black people that Cosby mentioned that are in prison.

---------------------
The racists who keep blacks from obtaining the proper reparations
that they are owed and the restoration to American Average Income
and ownership of their homes and equal jobs lives SHOULD be dragged
to the curb and shot through the head as CRIMINALS!!!


That's where
you will end up if you don't change your attitude and get a good sense
of values.

Holger

-------------------------
Or in political power after enough of us decide to shoot all the
racists!!
Steve
  #73  
Old May 23rd 04, 02:43 AM
Christopher Weeks
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Holger Dansk wrote:

Slouching is very incorrect. It means to walk, stand, or sit with a
slouch. A slouch is a loose or drooping gait or posture. It's usually
indicative of a lazy or incompetent person, who, by the way, may be
called a slouch.


What makes it incorrect? What makes the lack of a slouch superior?


The same thing that makes walking with a drooping gait not the proper
way to walk unless you are trying to look like a clown. You stand up
straight when you walk.

Holger


But that's what I mean. Why is such a walk improper?

Chris

  #74  
Old May 23rd 04, 02:44 AM
R. Steve Walz
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Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:36:57 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

It is not "the truth", because "correctness" of pronunciation is not
something that is "true" or "false" but rather is merely opinion.


Now, do you realize what you are saying? Do you know why we have
dictionaries showing pronunciation? So you think that correct
pronunciation is only an opinion? Wrong. In dictionaries, it is the
most accepted pronunciation that has evolved over a long period of time.

Do you think that right and wrong are not facts but opinions?

-----------------
Because there is no right and wrong EXCEPT for human opinion, and
ALL things are ONLY human opinions. If you can change human opinion,
then you can CHANGE THE "TRUTH"!!!


If so, it was people like you who committed the atrocities in the Iraq
prisons. Right and wrong are not opinions. They are absolutes.

-----------------
Nope. You must have been beaten as a child, you're sick. Right and
wrong have changed so much down through history, even recent history,
that nobody but a stupid medievalist can believe that!!


Unfortunately, the son-of-a-bitches who mistreated the Iraq prisoners,
evidently, had no value system and either didn't know right from wrong
or didn't care. They all said, "I was ordered to do that."

-----------------
That's what they SAY. They clearly enjoyed it. The Iraqis should be
abused until they give up. I don't give a flying **** if we tease and
rape them in prison, it doesn't bother me at all! I BELIEVE IT IS
RIGHT, because they don't have a fair secular democratic government,
and we're trying to make them create one by force. We HAVE the right
to do that to rescue even the few Iraqis who know that they DESERVE
western freedoms!! To me, THAT'S the highest good, and NOT their
safety!! A govt which is not fair, secular, and democratic (and only
lastly so), is a criminal gang and anyone opposing us should be tortured
to death!!


That is
totally irrelevant. You stand up for right and do not do wrong
regardless of what any superior officer orders you to do.

----------------------------
Unless they're wrong. Those soldiers KNEW in their heart of hearts
that the Iraqi culture and religion needs to have its back broken
before they can ever be civilized, and before our soldiers' deaths
can be justified!!!


If a superior officer had said, "Here, take this sword and cut that
prisoner's head off.", these fools may have done it. You never obey a
superior when he/she is wrong.
Holger

---------------------------
They did it not because they were WRONG, but because they were RIGHT,
you ****ing dope, they just didn't dare to SAY that TRUTH!!
Steve
  #75  
Old May 23rd 04, 02:45 AM
R. Steve Walz
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Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 06:27:29 -0500, "Donna Metler"
wrote:

I teach in the inner city. And I've heard a lot of very educated people who
can slide back and forth between the local dialect and more formal speech.
Heck, after 7 years, I can do it. So can my students. Dialect and slang is
as much a way of shutting the outside world out as anything else. IOW, they
don't particularly WANT to be understood by people who don't make an effort
to understand them. Same with any other subgroup.


I strongly suggest reading Ruby Payne. She's researched generational poverty
and the social/familial situation around it. A great deal of the things you
seem to be objecting to are features of that particular ses group, not a
specific racial group. Middle class people do not have the same mentalities
and behaviors that the very wealthy culture does (and it takes significant
work for someone who develops wealth later to "fit in" with this culture).
The same holds in generational poverty vs. generational middle class
behaviors.

I can speak incorrectly too. Anyone can. The idea is to speak
correctly.

Below is your post done incorrectly.

------------------
Irrelevant.
Steve
  #76  
Old May 23rd 04, 02:46 AM
R. Steve Walz
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Default

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:42:25 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Who are YOU to tell others what they "should" do


I'm like Bill Cosby. We know what proper behavior is.

Holger

----------------
You don't know crap. You're just a little white racist ****.
Steve
  #77  
Old May 23rd 04, 02:47 AM
Christopher Weeks
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Holger Dansk wrote:

What makes it incorrect? What makes the lack of a slouch superior?

The same thing that makes walking with a drooping gait not the proper
way to walk unless you are trying to look like a clown.


Who are YOU to define what is "proper" and what isn't "proper" in
walking or any other activity, racist?


I'm someone who knows the proper way to speak and walk and sit and
behave. I grew up in a home and all of the family knew these things and
associated primarily with other people who do.


So you can't explain it even the slightest bit?

You stand up straight when you walk.


Does he? How do you know?


Everyone should stand up straight when they walk.


Do you even see that this is completely circular?

Chris

  #79  
Old May 23rd 04, 02:48 AM
Joni Rathbun
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On Sun, 23 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever
listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful
person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian.

I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about
education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that
while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were
performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context
as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his
remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets
that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his
comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in
exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about
special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was
just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and
offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on
a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with
elements of both.

Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search
engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without
the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event
on them. He was serious, of course.

I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.


Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of
"Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing
execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do.

Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom
I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition
when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard.
We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics
world or that they don't know.


Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen,
the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING.

He does not say, "all blacks".



I wasn't talking about Cosby. I was talking about people like you.


They make choices and the reasons for those choices are many.

I work with one woman (a support staff member, not a teacher) who
cannot speak formal English. It grates on my nerves after a while
because she talks nonstop. But interestingly, her three children are
all quite skilled at formal English. That's all I've ever heard
them speak when they come to visit. All are well educated and
successful too. Not a loser in the bunch. So she and her husband
must have done something right.

We are not saying that all blacks can not speak English, but just a lot
of them.


Frankly, from the "linguistic" examples you've given us, I don't see
how you'd even know.



  #80  
Old May 23rd 04, 03:04 AM
R. Steve Walz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever
listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful
person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian.

I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about
education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that
while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were
performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context
as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his
remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets
that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his
comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in
exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about
special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was
just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and
offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on
a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with
elements of both.

Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search
engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without
the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event
on them. He was serious, of course.

I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.


Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of
"Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing
execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do.

Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom
I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition
when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard.
We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics
world or that they don't know.


Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen,
the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING.

-----------------------
Sure they are, you just don't like how they do it.
Steve
 




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