Bad mommy or cultural difference?

How about - one of you stand in line; the other of you take her off somewhere,
but still in view, for other activities and running around away from the line?
Then when you, or he (whoever is the line-stander) gets close to the front, you
all join up again. �That's what I see people do. �Indeed, as a single parent,
I'd wish I had that option.

Nope. That is not allowed. If you're in the area, you *must* be in the
line. They have guards everywhere making a big fuss if you're not in a
line. If you're not, then you're loitering and considered a security
risk. Yes, it's obvious why if you have a kid, but rules are rules.
Pre-9/11 it was much more relaxed, these days not so much. It depends
a bit on the particular airport and the mood of the guards (some have
been easy going, some make you feel like you're all criminals til they
clear you).

Then the problem really rests with the policy makers that do not take
into consideration those under the age of 3. lol. I wouldn't break a
sweat about it and if anyone said something, I would complain about
not being able to at least step out of line for toddler entertaining
or being able to have a stroller with straps handy. I've mentioned my
2-y/o is large for his age and he has discovered how loudly he can
protest something with a "Nooooo!" and he has used it in public - not
a screaming, tantrum-type, just a loud "Nooo!" I would be more
embarrassed by that if he had his full head of hair rather than his
still-obviously toddler hair, thinking that most people would think he
is older than he is and should know better than that.

On Jan 7, 8:06Â*pm, Chris wrote:
How about - one of you stand in line; the other of you take her off somewhere,
but still in view, for other activities and running around away from the line?
Then when you, or he (whoever is the line-stander) gets close to the front, you
all join up again. �That's what I see people do. �Indeed, as a single parent,
I'd wish I had that option.

Nope. That is not allowed. If you're in the area, you *must* be in the
line. They have guards everywhere making a big fuss if you're not in a
line. If you're not, then you're loitering and considered a security
risk. Yes, it's obvious why if you have a kid, but rules are rules.
Pre-9/11 it was much more relaxed, these days not so much. It depends
a bit on the particular airport and the mood of the guards (some have
been easy going, some make you feel like you're all criminals til they
clear you).

Then the problem really rests with the policy makers that do not take
into consideration those under the age of 3. lol. I wouldn't break a
sweat about it and if anyone said something, I would complain about
not being able to at least step out of line for toddler entertaining
or being able to have a stroller with straps handy.

I'm not easily cowed (is that the right word?) by authority figures,
but DH with his newly acquired green card has a healthy fear of anyone
with a uniform in the immigration area who can say he can't get back
in because they just don't like him....I've known people with
perfectly legal visas get treated like criminals by some over-eager
INS person for hours.

So, no, I won't make a scene, I won't tempt a backlash, it's just not
worth the risk. Now some times we've entered we've seen INS workers
laugh and joke who would probably be ok, other times we've seen people
act like you're lucky to be on their soil and one step out of line and
you're in detention.

Like I said, it's a lot different now than it used to be - it also
depends a lot on what's happening in the world at that time. We
travelled shortly after the big Heathrow bomb scare last summer, and
the atmosphere then was *awful*. I swear the tension was so thick you
could cut it with a knife. This time wasn't really like that (and the
agent we finally saw was joking with us), but it's not a chance I'm
willing to take. After 15+ hours of travel, I really don't want to
spend another 10+ hours submitted to questioning/harassment because I
refused to stand in line.

On Jan 6, 10:54*am, (Marty Billingsley)
wrote:
Don't worry about what the Swiss think -- they're a bit intolerant
anyway. *When I was living there, an american friend used to take
her baby to church, and was glared at by the congregation every
time the baby even whimpered. *




At 18 months, the child isn't going to comprehend "no" in a general
sense; in other words, "no" to touching one thing doesn't mean "no"
to touching something else. *Might as well not try to teach her
in that crowded situation -- just distract her.

As someone else who responded to this said, all kids are different.
I've got twins, and at that age one would sit calmly, and the
other would be all over the place. *The only way to cope was to
play games with her while we waited (in line, at the airport, etc). *
The games ranged from peek-a-boo at a young age, to acting along while
singing the "Ralph's World" song about "marching, marching,
marching, marching, hop, hop, hop...etc.", to I Spy when she
was older. *It takes up all your attention, so it's impossible
to shop at the same time, though.

Oh yeah, singing, dancing, games, acting goofy....we do all that. I
feel for the people around me who have to hear me singing!

Hang in there. *And be glad you don't have a kid who stares
blankly at the TV. :-)

I am, however there are some times I kind of wish she would!

On a different note (more in response to some other posts) - I should
clarify that DD is indeed genetically 1/2 Swiss, and she does have one
Swiss parent who partakes in at least 50% of the parenting most of the
time.

"Caledonia" wrote in message
...
On Jan 7, 11:19 pm, Marie wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:53:07 -0800 (PST), cjra
wrote:

I did remove her, but maybe 10 minutes into it. I waited because 1. it
was cold outside. 2. DH had all her winter gear in the backpack 3. it
takes 20 minutes just to get all her winter gear on and 4. I kept
hoping he'd be done soon...

That is alot of winter gear! Do you have to put it on her to leave the
store each time? I live in South Carolina, the most we need in winter
for a trip to the store is a jacket lol
I kwym about hoping he'd be done soon, I've been there!

I'm perplexed -- what would take 20 minutes to put on for temps 10F?
The preschools here are pretty adamant that if the temps aren't in the
single digits (inclusive of wind chill, which had been a bear), it's
an outside recess....

Caledonia

Boy, does it depend on context! Here, pretty much any temp below freezing is
enough for schools to keep kids in. When we've had temps in the high
30's/low 40s, my DD has been the only child on the playground (and that's
for MY benefit-I'll happily bundle her up for just about anything that's not
pouring cold rain vs having the hazard of "3 yr old who hasn't gotten to run
today").

Her preschool's policy is below 40, they go to the gym.

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 06:43:54 -0800 (PST), Pologirl
wrote:
Cjra seems to assume the glares were for her child's behavior. My
main point is that the glares could be for her own behavior
(specifically, her "tell, yell, yell, yell..." technique).

What I can't stand (and I am not saying this was Cjra but it reminds
me)...Parents are in the store or restaurant, letting the kids do
whatever, scream, make a mess, scatter the toys everywhere. The whole
time the mom/dad is nagging in this whiny voice, "No. No. Stop doing
that. You wanna time out? No. No." It drives me nuts. If my children
are misbehaving or being a nuisance, I remove them *quickly* if at all
possible. And I mean quickly. If I had to, we'd go sit in the car, or
go home. It only took a couple of times leaving a restaurant in the
middle of eating for the kids to learn to behave, even as young as 2.
I also can't stand for a family to be at a restaurant with a baby, and
the baby is just crying and crying and no one does anything about it.
Marie

Marie wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 06:43:54 -0800 (PST), Pologirl
wrote:
Cjra seems to assume the glares were for her child's behavior. My
main point is that the glares could be for her own behavior
(specifically, her "tell, yell, yell, yell..." technique).

What I can't stand (and I am not saying this was Cjra but it reminds
me)...Parents are in the store or restaurant, letting the kids do
whatever, scream, make a mess, scatter the toys everywhere. The whole
time the mom/dad is nagging in this whiny voice, "No. No. Stop doing
that. You wanna time out? No. No." It drives me nuts. If my children
are misbehaving or being a nuisance, I remove them *quickly* if at all
possible. And I mean quickly. If I had to, we'd go sit in the car, or
go home. It only took a couple of times leaving a restaurant in the
middle of eating for the kids to learn to behave, even as young as 2.

Sigh. If only :-/ Doing that worked like a charm for my
first two, but DD is highly resistant. Doesn't change the method,
of course--still have to remove the child if the behavior is
inappropriate, but despite doing it consistently for quite some
time (i.e., years), we still have to remove with a reasonable degree
of regularity. Sometimes we take two cars when eating out so
that no one has to sit in the parking lot and wait on the others.
Someday....

I also can't stand for a family to be at a restaurant with a baby, and
the baby is just crying and crying and no one does anything about it.

Yeah, that bugs me too.

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Jan 7, 9:48*pm, Marie wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 06:43:54 -0800 (PST), Pologirl
wrote:

Cjra seems to assume the glares were for her child's behavior. *My
main point is that the glares could be for her own behavior
(specifically, her "tell, yell, yell, yell..." technique).

What I can't stand (and I am not saying this was Cjra but it reminds
me)...Parents are in the store or restaurant, letting the kids do
whatever, scream, make a mess, scatter the toys everywhere. The whole
time the mom/dad is nagging in this whiny voice, "No. No. Stop doing
that. You wanna time out? No. No." It drives me nuts.

Drives me nuts too. Honestly it really wasn't like that. I don't know
how to describe it without actually hearing it though...but trust
me ;-) I am extra conscientious about that. She's far too young to
undestand a time out anyway and my voice is anything but whiney....


If my children
are misbehaving or being a nuisance, I remove them *quickly* if at all
possible. And I mean quickly. If I had to, we'd go sit in the car, or
go home.

I did remove her, but maybe 10 minutes into it. I waited because 1. it
was cold outside. 2. DH had all her winter gear in the backpack 3. it
takes 20 minutes just to get all her winter gear on and 4. I kept
hoping he'd be done soon...

However, I absolutely don't want to sit in the car and let her play.
WHy? Because I want her to associate the car with sitting in the car
seat, not the place she can move around and play.


It only took a couple of times leaving a restaurant in the
middle of eating for the kids to learn to behave, even as young as 2.
I also can't stand for a family to be at a restaurant with a baby, and
the baby is just crying and crying and no one does anything about it.

At least until recently (we haven't been in a restaurant in a few
weeks), DD has been great at restaurants. However we have to make sure
we're always interacting with her. Now she's more mobile it may be a
little different....

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 07:58:23 -0800 (PST), cjra
wrote
Now we're back in TX, where the carts are
big, she can't push them (and it's too crowded), but she's fighting
sitting in them. I am entertaining her the whole time (I alsogive her
things to entertain her, but that doesn't always last). It's
exhausting.....

It makes me giggle when people say it's exhausting to take a child
grocery shopping lol
Once, when my oldest was 18 months and my youngest was a newborn, I
took them to the mall to get a gift for my husband for Christmas. Well
I was holding the baby, and holding the toddler's hand. She did not
want her hand held at one point and dropped to the floor yelling
"Owowow!" My face was burning, oh my garsh. I headed to the car, a
child under each arm and waited until the husband got home. Then I
left him with the kids and went out alone.
I actually have always enjoyed grocery shopping with the kids, all
three of them, and the same when my neice and nephew are with me. Of
course, it's really nice to shop alone.
What I've used a few times was Skittles(the candy). I'd bring a bag in
my pocket into the store, and give the kids one at a time every couple
of minutes.
Marie

On Jan 7, 9:57*pm, Marie wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 07:58:23 -0800 (PST), cjra
wrote
*Now we're back in TX, where the carts are

big, she can't push them (and it's too crowded), but she's fighting
sitting in them. *I am entertaining her the whole time (I alsogive her
things to entertain *her, but that doesn't always last). It's
exhausting.....

It makes me giggle when people say it's exhausting to take a child
grocery shopping lol
Once, when my oldest was 18 months and my youngest was a newborn, I
took them to the mall to get a gift for my husband for Christmas. Well
I was holding the baby, and holding the toddler's hand. She did not
want her hand held at one point and dropped to the floor yelling
"Owowow!" My face was burning, oh my garsh. I headed to the car, a
child under each arm and waited until the husband got home. Then I
left him with the kids and went out alone.

We used to have fun shopping with DD, in the past couple of weeks it's
been more work. However if I just went home, we would not have had
food for another 10 days when DH returns. And since we had been
travelling for 2 weeks prior, we have very little fresh food in the
house to begin with.

So no, I didn't want to just drag her home. I figured we needed to eat
something besides pasta and rice over the next 10 days (pasta and rice
we always have at home).


I actually have always enjoyed grocery shopping with the kids, all
three of them, and the same when my neice and nephew are with me. Of
course, it's really nice to shop alone.
What I've used a few times was Skittles(the candy). I'd bring a bag in
my pocket into the store, and give the kids one at a time every couple
of minutes.
Marie

Food used to work, usually just bread is enough to keep her occupied.
But not this time. I'm not fond of candy, and she had been given far
too much sweets in CH, that I'm trying to wean her back off of that.

In article ,
cjra says...

On Jan 6, 10:54=A0am, (Marty Billingsley)
wrote:
Don't worry about what the Swiss think -- they're a bit intolerant
anyway. =A0When I was living there, an american friend used to take
her baby to church, and was glared at by the congregation every
time the baby even whimpered. =A0




At 18 months, the child isn't going to comprehend "no" in a general
sense; in other words, "no" to touching one thing doesn't mean "no"
to touching something else. =A0Might as well not try to teach her
in that crowded situation -- just distract her.

As someone else who responded to this said, all kids are different.
I've got twins, and at that age one would sit calmly, and the
other would be all over the place. =A0The only way to cope was to
play games with her while we waited (in line, at the airport, etc). =A0
The games ranged from peek-a-boo at a young age, to acting along while
singing the "Ralph's World" song about "marching, marching,
marching, marching, hop, hop, hop...etc.", to I Spy when she
was older. =A0It takes up all your attention, so it's impossible
to shop at the same time, though.

Oh yeah, singing, dancing, games, acting goofy....we do all that. I
feel for the people around me who have to hear me singing!

Hang in there. =A0And be glad you don't have a kid who stares
blankly at the TV. :-)

I am, however there are some times I kind of wish she would!

On a different note (more in response to some other posts) - I should
clarify that DD is indeed genetically 1/2 Swiss, and she does have one
Swiss parent who partakes in at least 50% of the parenting most of the
time.

Yeah but did you have a quiet orderly uterus ;-)

Banty