Bad mommy or cultural difference?

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 22:49:05 -0500, Ericka Kammerer
wrote:

Sigh. If only :-/ Doing that worked like a charm for my
first two, but DD is highly resistant. Doesn't change the method,
of course--still have to remove the child if the behavior is
inappropriate, but despite doing it consistently for quite some
time (i.e., years), we still have to remove with a reasonable degree
of regularity. Sometimes we take two cars when eating out so
that no one has to sit in the parking lot and wait on the others.
Someday....

Oh no!! I'm sorry for you!
We've never done the two cars thing unless we were meeting my husband
after work. How old is your daughter?
That's just more proof for my "third child" theory.
Marie

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:53:07 -0800 (PST), cjra
wrote:
I did remove her, but maybe 10 minutes into it. I waited because 1. it
was cold outside. 2. DH had all her winter gear in the backpack 3. it
takes 20 minutes just to get all her winter gear on and 4. I kept
hoping he'd be done soon...

That is alot of winter gear! Do you have to put it on her to leave the
store each time? I live in South Carolina, the most we need in winter
for a trip to the store is a jacket lol
I kwym about hoping he'd be done soon, I've been there!

However, I absolutely don't want to sit in the car and let her play.
WHy? Because I want her to associate the car with sitting in the car
seat, not the place she can move around and play.

Yes, I agree with you there...my youngest is now 5 and I do sometimes
let her play in the car (not that that kind of situation comes up
much, but occasionally). I never let any of the kids play or even be
unbuckled in the car when they were younger(below about age 4) because
I didn't want the car seat to even be seen as an option.

It only took a couple of times leaving a restaurant in the
middle of eating for the kids to learn to behave, even as young as 2.
I also can't stand for a family to be at a restaurant with a baby, and
the baby is just crying and crying and no one does anything about it.

At least until recently (we haven't been in a restaurant in a few
weeks), DD has been great at restaurants. However we have to make sure
we're always interacting with her. Now she's more mobile it may be a
little different....

My middle daughter stopped caring for her high chair at a little past
a year old. At home she'd sit in a chair at the table and if we were
out, she'd sit on a booster seat at the table. She didn't even do the
boosters for long.
Marie

On Jan 7, 10:19*pm, Marie wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:53:07 -0800 (PST), cjra
wrote:

I did remove her, but maybe 10 minutes into it. I waited because 1. it
was cold outside. 2. DH had all her winter gear in the backpack 3. it
takes 20 minutes just to get all her winter gear on and 4. I kept
hoping he'd be done soon...

That is alot of winter gear! Do you have to put it on her to leave the
store each time? I live in South Carolina, the most we need in winter
for a trip to the store is a jacket lol
I kwym about hoping he'd be done soon, I've been there!

We live in Texas where winter gear is a jacket, but we were in
Switzerland and it was below freezing out. No, it wasn't like Vermont
or Minnesota, but it was still cold. Because the store was like the
tropics inside (this is another thing about the Swiss I guess -
everyone else still had on their coats) both DD and I shed all our
layers upon entering it was so dang hot inside! Part of the reason it
takes time is that neither DD or I are really used to layering her up
and she's squirmy and doesn't like putting on the jacket/sweater/
gloves so it's a struggle.

the 20 mins is actually what it takes at home, at the store maybe it
would have only been 10 mins, as she hadn't shed quite everything
yet....

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:59:16 -0800 (PST), cjra
wrote:
We used to have fun shopping with DD, in the past couple of weeks it's
been more work.

Well, ya know, this could just be a short phase...and if you have to,
tell yourself that over and over until it IS over. My mother's words,
I hated to hear them at the time, "This too shall pass". With my third
child I've been told this repeatedly.
)
Marie

On Jan 7, 10:08*pm, Banty wrote:
In article ,
cjra says...







On Jan 6, 10:54=A0am, (Marty Billingsley)
wrote:
Don't worry about what the Swiss think -- they're a bit intolerant
anyway. =A0When I was living there, an american friend used to take
her baby to church, and was glared at by the congregation every
time the baby even whimpered. =A0

At 18 months, the child isn't going to comprehend "no" in a general
sense; in other words, "no" to touching one thing doesn't mean "no"
to touching something else. =A0Might as well not try to teach her
in that crowded situation -- just distract her.

As someone else who responded to this said, all kids are different.
I've got twins, and at that age one would sit calmly, and the
other would be all over the place. =A0The only way to cope was to
play games with her while we waited (in line, at the airport, etc). =A0
The games ranged from peek-a-boo at a young age, to acting along while
singing the "Ralph's World" song about "marching, marching,
marching, marching, hop, hop, hop...etc.", to I Spy when she
was older. =A0It takes up all your attention, so it's impossible
to shop at the same time, though.

Oh yeah, singing, dancing, games, acting goofy....we do all that. I
feel for the people around me who have to hear me singing!

Hang in there. =A0And be glad you don't have a kid who stares
blankly at the TV. :-)

I am, however there are some times I kind of wish she would!

On a different note (more in response to some other posts) - I should
clarify that DD is indeed genetically 1/2 Swiss, and she does have one
Swiss parent who partakes in at least 50% of the parenting most of the
time.

Yeah but did you have a quiet orderly uterus *;-)


Well, I have discovered the problem.

My daughter is just like me. Apparently from the time I entered the
world I couldn't keep still (or keep my clothes on). So when I
describe the situation to my parents, they just laugh and say I'm
getting my payback.

Marie wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 22:49:05 -0500, Ericka Kammerer
wrote:

Sigh. If only :-/ Doing that worked like a charm for my
first two, but DD is highly resistant. Doesn't change the method,
of course--still have to remove the child if the behavior is
inappropriate, but despite doing it consistently for quite some
time (i.e., years), we still have to remove with a reasonable degree
of regularity. Sometimes we take two cars when eating out so
that no one has to sit in the parking lot and wait on the others.
Someday....

Oh no!! I'm sorry for you!

Well, she's a lot of fun in many other ways, but
she is an exhausting child for her parents ;-) She's better
for other folks, whether because she's more motivated to please
them or because she's got them well wrapped around her little
finger ;-)

We've never done the two cars thing unless we were meeting my husband
after work. How old is your daughter?

She's four years old. And she is getting better in
some ways. It's just that a couple of removals from restaurants
and the other two kids got the picture and didn't really
challenge much after that. DD is fine until she reaches
her limit (whatever it happens to be that day), and then
there's really nothing to do but take her out because you're
just not going to have any luck with her after that point.
Now, our point for taking a child out may be different from
some other people's. It's not that she's racing around the
restaurant shrieking or anything. We could probably keep her
in the restaurant and other tables wouldn't be bothered by
her behavior, but I don't really want her disturbing *our*
dinner either, so if she can't muster up decent restaurant
manners, then it's off to the car (or home to bed, if we've
got a second car on hand).

That's just more proof for my "third child" theory.

Sure does seem to hold water with a lot of thirds
we know! There are lots of fun things about thirds too,
and people just adore her, but we certainly never expected
her level of...I dunno...intensity, I guess! She's got a
lot of traits that will stand her in very good stead when
they're counterbalanced by some maturity. We just have to
see that she makes it to that point alive ;-) She does give
us a whole new level of insight into some kinds of parenting
issues ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

Marie wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:59:16 -0800 (PST), cjra
wrote:
We used to have fun shopping with DD, in the past couple of weeks it's
been more work.

Well, ya know, this could just be a short phase...and if you have to,
tell yourself that over and over until it IS over. My mother's words,
I hated to hear them at the time, "This too shall pass". With my third
child I've been told this repeatedly.

Yeah, but they forget the remainder: "...and be replaced
by something equally frustrating/annoying/challenging!" ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

Like I said, it's a lot different now than it used to be - it also
depends a lot on what's happening in the world at that time. We
travelled shortly after the big Heathrow bomb scare last summer, and
the atmosphere then was *awful*. I swear the tension was so thick you
could cut it with a knife. This time wasn't really like that (and the
agent we finally saw was joking with us), but it's not a chance I'm
willing to take. After 15+ hours of travel, I really don't want to
spend another 10+ hours submitted to questioning/harassment because I
refused to stand in line.


I think you misunderstood me there. I meant if anybody else standing
in line had any snide remarks about my toddler annoying them by simply
making the line move slower, and even if my toddler got antsy in a
line where entertaining the child was not permitted and placing the
child into a stroller was not permitted, it isn't my problem and their
(the other bystanders') beef is with the policy makers. Does that make
more sense? That is why it wouldn't bother me one bit personally.

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:24:19 -0500, Ericka Kammerer
wrote:

Well, she's a lot of fun in many other ways, but
she is an exhausting child for her parents ;-) She's better
for other folks, whether because she's more motivated to please
them or because she's got them well wrapped around her little
finger ;-)

Mine is also better for other adults. And I think it's because she has
them wrapped...she's very cute and adorable and all that, to others.
Of course I think she is also, but her teachers and leaders seem to
gush more over her than they did my older two children.

She's four years old. And she is getting better in
some ways. It's just that a couple of removals from restaurants
and the other two kids got the picture and didn't really
challenge much after that. DD is fine until she reaches
her limit (whatever it happens to be that day), and then
there's really nothing to do but take her out because you're
just not going to have any luck with her after that point.
Now, our point for taking a child out may be different from
some other people's. It's not that she's racing around the
restaurant shrieking or anything. We could probably keep her
in the restaurant and other tables wouldn't be bothered by
her behavior, but I don't really want her disturbing *our*
dinner either, so if she can't muster up decent restaurant
manners, then it's off to the car (or home to bed, if we've
got a second car on hand).

My third child turned 5 in October. When she was a baby I learned what
high needs was and it was such a relief. And it really has gotten
easier as she's gotten older, everyone was right!

Sure does seem to hold water with a lot of thirds
we know! There are lots of fun things about thirds too,
and people just adore her, but we certainly never expected
her level of...I dunno...intensity, I guess! She's got a
lot of traits that will stand her in very good stead when
they're counterbalanced by some maturity. We just have to
see that she makes it to that point alive ;-) She does give
us a whole new level of insight into some kinds of parenting
issues ;-)

I have been seriously considering my third child theory. In almost
every family I can think of with three children, the baby is so much
more...intense, to use your word. And it's not the same if it's the
baby of a 2 or 4-child family.
I think the same as you about my daughter, I think she will be able to
do anything she wants. Very smart, and strong. She's always cracking
us up. The things that annoy us now will turn out to make her rich and
famous in 20 years.
And one last thing- this child has boggled my mind when it comes to
parenting issues. After having and raising two babies into kidhood, I
had it all figured out P Then comes Bethany to straighten me out.
Marie

Just two thoughts...

1. Cjra's DD may be discovering her defiant side just now. My DD is
far more defiant than my DS. Although my DS tests more boundaries, he
does not push them as hard as she does. Eg, my DD (15mo) has learned
she is allowed to open some cabinets, but has not yet needed to open
every single cabinet and find out exactly which ones are permitted and
which ones are not permitted.

2. This is highly unlikely, but could the car seat and stroller and
high chair be physically painful for her? I recall she has had major
constipation episodes. Has her pediatrician checked her out
*carefully* for a pelvic mass? If it were *my* DD, unfortunately that
would be right at the top of my to-do list.

Pologirl