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#1
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OPC... Other People's Children
rant
DS1, now 7, shares a music class with a 10yo girl. She is just rude, mainly because she has been allowed to get her own way too much, but in part because her lack of practising does tend to become apparent in class. The presence of her Mum makes no difference to her behaviour; in fact, it may make it slightly worse. I couldn't tell you if she really likes doing music or not and frankly suspect that she wouldn't be able to answer that question honestly any more, because she is using the music class to pursue another agenda. Today, she stuck with all her usual foot-dragging and disruption. That is, when the teacher told them to sit on the floor she played a few bars on the keyboard first -- every time. When told to do *anything* she mucks around with the keyboard first, including starting the automatic arpeggios or putting the volume up. When the teacher wants them to practice their fingering on the floor, she doesn't do it. You can guess what her Mum does to stop this behaviour. Anyway, the teacher had one child play the left hand, and the other the right, of one of their current pieces. First, DS played left hand while Madam played right. But when DS was to play right hand, Madam played it far too fast. She was told to play it slowly -- and played it far too fast again. Last chance -- and she still played it way too fast. Her Mum said, "I think we'd better go home if you are going to act like this." [Oh please, please! I think to myself.] "Noooo!" One little whine and Mum pipes down. Did the behaviour improve at all for the rest of the lesson? Noooo! Same old stuffing around, refusing to cooperate, playing so loudly that DS (who sits behind her) couldn't hear the teacher's playing, and so on. I am so sick of it, and I get extra annoyed watching the mother threaten and fail to follow through! Last year was almost as bad; we had a skittish little boy in the class with *his* feckless mother! Please excuse me while I go and bang my head on a wall a few times. I don't know how the teacher copes, I really don't! /rant -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ |
#2
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OPC... Other People's Children
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:56:30 +1000, Chookie
wrote: Please excuse me while I go and bang my head on a wall a few times. I don't know how the teacher copes, I really don't! /rant Whatever happened to private music lessons. I was always the only one in my class. Or is this in school? -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#3
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OPC... Other People's Children
"toto" wrote in message ... On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:56:30 +1000, Chookie wrote: Please excuse me while I go and bang my head on a wall a few times. I don't know how the teacher copes, I really don't! /rant Whatever happened to private music lessons. I was always the only one in my class. Or is this in school? And why are there parents present at a music lesson? I usually sit in the car and read a book, or look at the shiny new guitars in the showroom! |
#4
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OPC... Other People's Children
"toto" wrote in message ... On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:56:30 +1000, Chookie wrote: Please excuse me while I go and bang my head on a wall a few times. I don't know how the teacher copes, I really don't! /rant Whatever happened to private music lessons. I was always the only one in my class. Or is this in school? There are several good group keyboard curricula, and if they're well done, can be more effective for the first couple of years of piano study than individual lessons. It's also more cost-effective for parents. At any level of piano, having a group component in addition to private lessons can be beneficial. Pianists often are piaced in a role where they're either soloists or accompanists, and there really isn't a natural equivalent of orchestra or band that is available to most piano students (even if a school has a jazz band, it needs one keyboard/piano player to about 20 other musicians). Having said that, my guess is that this 10 yr old really doesn't want to be there. She's old enough that she might be acting this way in part because of the age of her classmates-even a 1 year age range seems like a lot at this point, and usually stays that way until adulthood, so private lessons or school-based classes often work better, and it may simply be that she doesn't want to play piano, but mom thinks it's a good idea. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#5
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OPC... Other People's Children
Chookie, sounds like a tricky situation, you have my sympathies.
I was curious about the fact parents were there, because I think that always creates a difficult environment for the teacher and the parent, the parent will hold of stepping in, thinking the teacher is in charge and the teacher isn't as strong as they might be if the parent wasn't there, though it does sound like the behaviour of this child adds up to more than that. We had a similar situation with DD's gymnastics last year, there was one child who pretty much took all the teachers time to get him to behave and as a consequence she had to let him get away with some of the less bad stuff, like sitting safely, but somewhere he wasn't supposed to sit, we then had a problem, because DD would see him sitting somewhere she quite fancied sitting too and go an join him! The difference was, it was clear that the teacher and the parent were well aware that it was a troublesome child and the class only had a couple of months left to run, so though I moaned to DH everytime, we had also made the decision that we'd just not sign DD up for the same class next session rather than complain to someone at that time. In the end I think that's the choice you have to make, it's not fair that your DS should have his class disrupted like that, but your choice is to not let that bother you and focus on how much he does get out of it, or approach the teacher (or someone who is above them if they exist). You could suggest to the teacher that parents are encouraged not to watch if you think that would help them and if not, you can always remove yourself to avoid stressing yourself out! Cheers Anne |
#6
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OPC... Other People's Children
In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote: Whatever happened to private music lessons. I was always the only one in my class. Or is this in school? There are several good group keyboard curricula, and if they're well done, can be more effective for the first couple of years of piano study than individual lessons. It's also more cost-effective for parents. At any level of piano, having a group component in addition to private lessons can be beneficial. Donna is correct; it's a small-group curriculum. The owner was a music teacher before joining the franchise (I discovered one of her ex-pupils in my Breastfeeding Association group!) and strongly supports small-group learning because of the opportunities from learning from each other, performing in front of a small audience, and for ensemble work. Yes, it is also cost-effective. Having said that, my guess is that this 10 yr old really doesn't want to be there. She's old enough that she might be acting this way in part because of the age of her classmates-even a 1 year age range seems like a lot at this point, and usually stays that way until adulthood, so private lessons or school-based classes often work better, and it may simply be that she doesn't want to play piano, but mom thinks it's a good idea. I see a number of things going on. I am sure Mum dragged her to lessons; there is an elder sister in another class who looks like the classic Good Girl. Throw together a strong will, a rather pliant mother, the usual lack of desire to practice, and (I suspect) a high but hidden level of perfectionism, and you have a recipe for music class refusal. The pity is that she is so used to trying for negative attention that she probably no longer really knows what she wants out of music. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ |
#7
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OPC... Other People's Children
"Donna Metler" wrote:
Having said that, my guess is that this 10 yr old really doesn't want to be there. snip, and it may simply be that she doesn't want to play piano, but mom thinks it's a good idea. My second child was like this. She had private lessons (sequenced with her sister) and she did not like to practice the piano. It was the same in ice skating, horseback riding, sewing and most things. She wasn't as good at some things as her older sister because her sister was older and had better small motor coordination so she got disgusted and wouldn't try. She hates sewing now and won't do it. She quit riding at least three times. She once started to walk home from the riding stable (10 miles) when I dropped her off to take a lesson because she was determined that she wasn't going to ride. Riding scared her, but each time she didn't want her sister doing something she wasn't doing and would go back The things where her sister got tense trying to do well, she would be loose as a goose and do better than her sister (ice skating and swimming). She was extremely competitive, very emotional and very strong willed. Her sister was more compliant although she didn't like it when she was beaten either. After she graduated from HS, dd#2 stated that her goal was to graduated with a higher class rank than dd#1, and dd#1's comment was - I didn't know it was a competition!! In any case, I often had instructors refuse to teach her. Piano was one of those things, and so was ice skating. One of the reasons that I decided physical punishment was not the way to go (although it was how I was brought up), was that she would defiantly say "That didn't hurt", although I knew it did. I had to pick my battles. If the child doesn't want to play and the mother wants her to, threatening to take her home is not a punishment, and probably an action that the mom doesn't want to take although maybe she thinks she ought to due to the other parent's attitudes.. How about just unplugging her keyboard if it is too loud? Is that possible? Or some incentive to get her to want to behave. |
#8
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OPC... Other People's Children
"Rosalie B." wrote in message ... "Donna Metler" wrote: Having said that, my guess is that this 10 yr old really doesn't want to be there. snip, and it may simply be that she doesn't want to play piano, but mom thinks it's a good idea. My second child was like this. She had private lessons (sequenced with her sister) and she did not like to practice the piano. It was the same in ice skating, horseback riding, sewing and most things. She wasn't as good at some things as her older sister because her sister was older and had better small motor coordination so she got disgusted and wouldn't try. She hates sewing now and won't do it. She quit riding at least three times. She once started to walk home from the riding stable (10 miles) when I dropped her off to take a lesson because she was determined that she wasn't going to ride. Riding scared her, but each time she didn't want her sister doing something she wasn't doing and would go back The things where her sister got tense trying to do well, she would be loose as a goose and do better than her sister (ice skating and swimming). She was extremely competitive, very emotional and very strong willed. Her sister was more compliant although she didn't like it when she was beaten either. After she graduated from HS, dd#2 stated that her goal was to graduated with a higher class rank than dd#1, and dd#1's comment was - I didn't know it was a competition!! In any case, I often had instructors refuse to teach her. Piano was one of those things, and so was ice skating. One of the reasons that I decided physical punishment was not the way to go (although it was how I was brought up), was that she would defiantly say "That didn't hurt", although I knew it did. I had to pick my battles. If the child doesn't want to play and the mother wants her to, threatening to take her home is not a punishment, and probably an action that the mom doesn't want to take although maybe she thinks she ought to due to the other parent's attitudes.. How about just unplugging her keyboard if it is too loud? Is that possible? Or some incentive to get her to want to behave. Rosalie has a good point. My family was close friends with a family of 3 girls. the older 2 did a lot of different things and stuck to them. But the youngest would take something up, decide it was too much work and drop it a few months later. Eventually the dad put his foot down and said (I think it was over playing the flute) that she was going to continue (and practice) until he said, rather than moving on as soon as it got at all hard. Maybe this could be the type of situation. I don't think (as a parent) you should decide that where it effects other people or children in the way you describe. If it was me, I'd choose something with private lessons (or similar) and make sure the teacher was aware of it, so they could have the knowledge to deal with it. It is possible the teacher does know more into the situation (and wouldn't be free to divulge to other parents) and action out of the lessons is taken. I think I'd request to move lessons when a space came available in another group. Debbie |
#9
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OPC... Other People's Children
Hi -- I'm not sure why the school (where the lessons are taking place) doesn't have a behavior policy. In most places like this, children who are disruptive are simply removed from the class, no refunds given. If the school lacks such a policy, you might suggest that they make one. If they DO have such a policy, ask that they enforce it. In either event, nothing will change if you fail to bring the problem to the teacher's attention. If this child is so disruptive that YOUR child isn't learning, you need to speak out and, if steps aren't taken, request a refund. (Requesting a refund will certainly get their attention.) --Beth Kevles -THE-COM-HERE http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner. NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would like me to reply. |
#10
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OPC... Other People's Children
My family was close friends with a family of 3 girls. the older 2 did a lot of different things and stuck to them. But the youngest would take something up, decide it was too much work and drop it a few months later. Eventually the dad put his foot down and said (I think it was over playing the flute) that she was going to continue (and practice) until he said, rather than moving on as soon as it got at all hard. I think there's a very subtle difference between allowing a child to find the right instrument and keeping them at one for the sake of them doing an instrument. I tried violin and piano, and pretty much had to continue doing one, which turned out to be piano, I am glad my parents did put that pressure on, because I've gained so much from it, but equally, not having a great ear (though it's reasonable know, I think I developed it from all the piano playing), violin was too subtle for me, I also don't have great coordination between the two hands, so piano was more challenging than some instruments might have been, so I might have got more out of a wind instrument, but who knows, it was subtle on the boundary between making me doing it and letting me try too many things. My husbands parents in the interests of not doing that would only let their kids try one instrument and unfortunately my husband chose trumpet (or cornet, maybe) and possibly didn't have a good teacher or good advice about mouthpieces or maybe was even out of the range of lip shapes suitable for a small brass instrument, but it didn't work out and the poor guy got no more music teaching, when he's actually quite musical and is a good, but untaught singer. Neither set of parents really knew anything about music, so I suppose the one good thing is between us we now know a fair bit about how things can go wrong for someone who is fairly musical and how to get the best out of a fairly average child who enjoys it! Cheers Anne |
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