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  #581  
Old June 5th 04, 07:44 AM
Holger Dansk
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On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 20:09:58 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:08:51 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
There were some Nubians scattered around, and a lot of different tribes,
but the pharaohs were Copts.

You mission, should you decide to accept it, is to prove that the
pharaohs were "white".


Why are you so interested in skin color?


I'm not. But this discussion started with a claim about what was done
by "whites and Asians".


Blacks did nothing in the jungle for so many, many, many years, just as
they do nothing today in Africa and America.

They have good rhythm and make some good music.

The Copts were not Negroes.


Your evidence?


I'm not going to spend a lot of time searching things like that. I can
understand how a black person, like you, desperately wants to find
something in the past that blacks did that seemed to be productive. Use
Google and I'm sure you can find lots of instances where some people
were referred to as dark skinned, and you can say that they were black.

All of the black savages back then were below the Sahara desert.


Your evidence?


Use Google and you will find that the savages stayed in the jungle.
Some were probably sold, by their own people, to people north of the
Sahara, but they probably never sold them by going up there to do it,
but sold them to people who came down from the north.

lojbab


Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm
  #582  
Old June 5th 04, 03:15 PM
Bob LeChevalier
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Holger Dansk wrote:
The black savages of Sub-Saharan-Africa had nothing to do with the
civilization north of the Sahara.


Hint, O Clueless One:

The Nile River runs from south of the Sahara to north of the Sahara,
and is populated along its entire length. Rivers have been the
highways of trade and migration since prehistory. Ethiopia is at the
head of one branch of the Nile, and also lies on the coast, where
black people have traded with the Arabs again since prehistory. You
will recall a little dalliance between King Solomon and the Queen of
Sheba

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...letter=S&pid=0

"According to Josephus she was the Queen of Egypt and Ethiopia".
Whether this is true or not, obviously the ancient Jews weren't as
rabidly racist as you are.

The blacks were uncivilized living in
the bush/jungle running around naked or in loin cloths, not just at one
period, but for thousands of years.


So were people everywhere else in the world, for thousands of years.

Most are still savages,


Not as savage as you are.

and they
own and abuse slaves in the Sudan, and commit all kinds of atrocities.


So did white people in Georgia 150 years ago.

They never created anything of any importance.


Who defines importance? You?

As I said before, they carved some ugly figures out of wood.


They obviously have different aesthetic sense than you.

Can you imagine living that way for thousands and thousands of years?


I can't imagine living for thousands and thousands of years.

But mankind lived that way - ALL of mankind.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
http://www.lojban.org
  #583  
Old June 5th 04, 03:19 PM
Bob LeChevalier
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Holger Dansk wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 20:09:58 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:
I'm not. But this discussion started with a claim about what was done
by "whites and Asians".


Blacks did nothing in the jungle for so many, many, many years,


How would you know?

If they did nothing, they would have died.

just as they do nothing today in Africa and America.


They do quite a lot in both Africa and America.

They have good rhythm and make some good music.


Relevance?

The Copts were not Negroes.


Your evidence?


I'm not going to spend a lot of time searching things like that.


You never spend any time researching anything. You just spout off
ignorant racist nonsense.

I can understand how a black person, like you,


A black person like me???

Should I be insulted?

All of the black savages back then were below the Sahara desert.


Your evidence?


Use Google and you will find that the savages stayed in the jungle.


I have and they didn't.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
http://www.lojban.org
  #584  
Old June 5th 04, 03:39 PM
Circe
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Holger Dansk wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 18:28:10 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:10:10 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
The Copts were not Christians when they were pharaohs.


Ah, then you are using Copt in the older, less typical sense. And
in that case, it just means they "Egyptian". The word "Copt" tells
us nothing about skin color or any other features, especially when
applied to ancient Egyptians. Given that the ancient Egyptians
represented the skin color of their pharoahs in art using colors
ranging from light brown to black, we cannot use their artistic
representations as any sort of guide. And since none of us were
living at the time, there's no way to tell for certain what
"color" the ancient Egyptian pharaohs were. Most experts believe
the ancient Egyptians were mixed ethnically with a strong strain
of sub-Saharan influence.


The black savages of Sub-Saharan-Africa had nothing to do with the
civilization north of the Sahara. The blacks were uncivilized
living in the bush/jungle running around naked or in loin cloths, not
just at one period, but for thousands of years. Most are still savages,
and they own and abuse slaves in the Sudan, and commit all kinds of
atrocities. They never created anything of any importance. As I said
before, they carved some ugly figures out of wood. Can you imagine
living that way for thousands and thousands of years?


Since no individual lives for thousands and thousands of years, that's a
pretty silly question. I can't imagine living *any* way for thousands and
thousands of years.

As to whether or not sub-Saharan cultures created anything of "importance",
frankly, that is an opinion based on nothing more than subjective
interpretation of what *you* think is valuable or important. It is an
opinion I do not share. The fact that people in parts of Africa own slaves
or commit atrocities is equally irrelevant--the civilizations you admire
having created things of "importance" (Greeks, Romans, et al.) did the same
things. Nor are these behaviors limited to sub-Saharan Africa in modern
times.
--
Be well, Barbara

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman


  #585  
Old June 5th 04, 03:51 PM
Holger Dansk
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:15:10 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
The black savages of Sub-Saharan-Africa had nothing to do with the
civilization north of the Sahara.


Hint, O Clueless One:

The Nile River runs from south of the Sahara to north of the Sahara,
and is populated along its entire length. Rivers have been the
highways of trade and migration since prehistory. Ethiopia is at the
head of one branch of the Nile, and also lies on the coast, where
black people have traded with the Arabs again since prehistory. You
will recall a little dalliance between King Solomon and the Queen of
Sheba

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...letter=S&pid=0

"According to Josephus she was the Queen of Egypt and Ethiopia".
Whether this is true or not, obviously the ancient Jews weren't as
rabidly racist as you are.

The blacks were uncivilized living in
the bush/jungle running around naked or in loin cloths, not just at one
period, but for thousands of years.


So were people everywhere else in the world, for thousands of years.

Most are still savages,


Not as savage as you are.

and they
own and abuse slaves in the Sudan, and commit all kinds of atrocities.


So did white people in Georgia 150 years ago.


I'm sure there are a few white people everywhere that do very bad
things. When you get enough apples, you will invariably come up with
some that are bad. However, I'm talking about today in Sudan and
Somalia and many other places in Africa. It isn't just a few blacks,
but thousands.

They never created anything of any importance.


Who defines importance? You?


Yes.

As I said before, they carved some ugly figures out of wood.


They obviously have different aesthetic sense than you.


That's for sure. Very sure, thank God.

Can you imagine living that way for thousands and thousands of years?


I can't imagine living for thousands and thousands of years.

But mankind lived that way - ALL of mankind.


It's hard to live as bad and the black people are living in Africa
today. That's not racist either. It's just a fact.

If someone said, "A black man farted.", you would holler, "Racist!!!"
Why don't you do something about that. Someone will mistake you for the
horrible Jessie Jackson.

lojbab


Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm
  #586  
Old June 5th 04, 04:01 PM
Holger Dansk
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 07:39:52 -0700, "Circe" wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 18:28:10 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:10:10 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
The Copts were not Christians when they were pharaohs.

Ah, then you are using Copt in the older, less typical sense. And
in that case, it just means they "Egyptian". The word "Copt" tells
us nothing about skin color or any other features, especially when
applied to ancient Egyptians. Given that the ancient Egyptians
represented the skin color of their pharoahs in art using colors
ranging from light brown to black, we cannot use their artistic
representations as any sort of guide. And since none of us were
living at the time, there's no way to tell for certain what
"color" the ancient Egyptian pharaohs were. Most experts believe
the ancient Egyptians were mixed ethnically with a strong strain
of sub-Saharan influence.


The black savages of Sub-Saharan-Africa had nothing to do with the
civilization north of the Sahara. The blacks were uncivilized
living in the bush/jungle running around naked or in loin cloths, not
just at one period, but for thousands of years. Most are still savages,
and they own and abuse slaves in the Sudan, and commit all kinds of
atrocities. They never created anything of any importance. As I said
before, they carved some ugly figures out of wood. Can you imagine
living that way for thousands and thousands of years?


Since no individual lives for thousands and thousands of years, that's a
pretty silly question. I can't imagine living *any* way for thousands and
thousands of years.


I thought that surely, you would understand that this means many
generations over thousands of years. Gosh, I'll try to take time to
explain things to you.

As to whether or not sub-Saharan cultures created anything of "importance",
frankly, that is an opinion based on nothing more than subjective
interpretation of what *you* think is valuable or important. It is an
opinion I do not share.


Well, of course, it is what I think and a lot of others think. You, of
course, may value doo doo and stench and dirt floors and rapes and
slavery, etc., and you are certainly free to do so.

Why don't you say that the Sub-Saharan-Savages brought doo doo up the
Nile so the people of Egypt could fertilize their crops and how valuable
that was, etc.?

The fact that people in parts of Africa own slaves
or commit atrocities is equally irrelevant--the civilizations you admire
having created things of "importance" (Greeks, Romans, et al.) did the same
things. Nor are these behaviors limited to sub-Saharan Africa in modern
times.


Well, now, we are talking about today, not thousands of years ago, etc.

What other countries have slaves today. I'm sure there may be a few if
you look real hard.

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm
  #587  
Old June 5th 04, 04:07 PM
Holger Dansk
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:19:20 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 20:09:58 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:
I'm not. But this discussion started with a claim about what was done
by "whites and Asians".


Blacks did nothing in the jungle for so many, many, many years,


How would you know?

If they did nothing, they would have died.


Aren't we getting cute. :-)

just as they do nothing today in Africa and America.


They do quite a lot in both Africa and America.


Tell me please about all of the wonderful things they do.

They have good rhythm and make some good music.


Relevance?


Well, that's a good thing.

The Copts were not Negroes.

Your evidence?


I'm not going to spend a lot of time searching things like that.


You never spend any time researching anything. You just spout off
ignorant racist nonsense.

I can understand how a black person, like you,


A black person like me???

Should I be insulted?

All of the black savages back then were below the Sahara desert.

Your evidence?


Use Google and you will find that the savages stayed in the jungle.


I have and they didn't.


Use Google at www.google.com, and don't just look at warped black web
sites.

I'm sure they came out of the actual bush or jungle on occasion to hunt
wildebeest, etc., on the grassy areas of the serengetti, etc.

lojbab


Holger

Fly free and happy beyond birthdays and across
forever, and we'll meet now and then when we wish,
in the midst of the one celebration that never can
end.

"There's No Such Place As Far Away"
by Richard Bach
  #588  
Old June 5th 04, 04:27 PM
Holger Dansk
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:01:16 GMT, Holger Dansk
wrote:

The fact that people in parts of Africa own slaves
or commit atrocities is equally irrelevant--the civilizations you admire
having created things of "importance" (Greeks, Romans, et al.) did the same
things. Nor are these behaviors limited to sub-Saharan Africa in modern
times.


Well, now, we are talking about today, not thousands of years ago, etc.

What other countries have slaves today. I'm sure there may be a few if
you look real hard.


Today, black people have black slaves in Mauritania, southwest of
Algeria.

I knew there would be another savage place that had slavery. I'm sure
they have doo doo too.

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm
  #589  
Old June 5th 04, 07:22 PM
Circe
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Posts: n/a
Default

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:01:16 GMT, Holger Dansk
wrote:

The fact that people in parts of Africa own slaves
or commit atrocities is equally irrelevant--the civilizations you
admire having created things of "importance" (Greeks, Romans, et
al.) did the same things. Nor are these behaviors limited to
sub-Saharan Africa in modern times.


Well, now, we are talking about today, not thousands of years ago,
etc.

What other countries have slaves today. I'm sure there may be a
few if you look real hard.


Today, black people have black slaves in Mauritania, southwest of
Algeria.

I knew there would be another savage place that had slavery.


De factor slavery still exists in the US. This particular acticle from
February of this year discusses slavery/human bondage in Floris:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/02/...rafficking.ap/. Of course,
it's not legal, but I'm not sure it's legal in Mauritania, either.

So, is Florida a "savage" place, too?

I'm sure they have doo doo too.

As indeed, people everywhere do. I know of no place in the world where
people do not produce excrement.
--
Be well, Barbara

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman


  #590  
Old June 5th 04, 09:50 PM
Holger Dansk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 11:22:53 -0700, "Circe" wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:01:16 GMT, Holger Dansk
wrote:

The fact that people in parts of Africa own slaves
or commit atrocities is equally irrelevant--the civilizations you
admire having created things of "importance" (Greeks, Romans, et
al.) did the same things. Nor are these behaviors limited to
sub-Saharan Africa in modern times.

Well, now, we are talking about today, not thousands of years ago,
etc.

What other countries have slaves today. I'm sure there may be a
few if you look real hard.


Today, black people have black slaves in Mauritania, southwest of
Algeria.

I knew there would be another savage place that had slavery.


De factor slavery still exists in the US. This particular acticle from
February of this year discusses slavery/human bondage in Floris:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/02/...rafficking.ap/. Of course,
it's not legal, but I'm not sure it's legal in Mauritania, either.


That's silly. We're not talking about prostitution to pay off debts,
etc. They have the real thing in Mauritania and have had it for
thousands of years in Sudan. Lots of children slaves.

So, is Florida a "savage" place, too?

I'm sure they have doo doo too.


But, that's about all the savages in Africa have produced for thousands
and thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

Hispanics and Asians can learn to say police instead of poelice and
President instead of Presidennnt in just a few seconds. But, in
hundreds of years over several generations the blacks in America have
still not learned. That's what is so irritating to Bill Cosby.

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm
 




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