No fluid/20 week induction update

Jamie Clark wrote:

Emily,
Well, my mother is a mystery writer by trade, but a good writer is a good
writer, in my book. Her name is Sue Grafton. I swear, losing Nathan was
almost as hard on her as it was on me. She was by my side throughout the
whole thing, including the shot to stop his heart. Besides my husband, she
was (and still is) my strength, my core, and my love. She was just
inspired.

I'm glad you liked it.

My mom is a poet and essayist and teacher of writing. When
my brother died, we all really benefitted from her writing about
it. I hope she will write about this too. I'm going to send
your mother's poem to her, I think she will appreciate it.
(She liked the Spirit Baby story, too.)

She's in Tucson until tomorrow night, but should be here with
me from Saturday night until I don't need her anymore. It will
be great to have her, I think. With DS, I didn't want anyone
but DH and our doula while I was in labor, although mom came
in time to meet us when we brought DS home. This time, I think
it will be good to have her there.

While I hope to go into labor on my own before Wednesday,
I hope that it doesn't mean she can't be here. We've arranged
that I'll call her if I am in labor, and she'll try to come
ASAP!

--
Emily
mom to Toby 5/1/02
#2 EDD 7/19/04

"Jamie Clark" wrote in message
link.net...
Emily,
Well, my mother is a mystery writer by trade, but a good writer is a good
writer, in my book. Her name is Sue Grafton. I swear, losing Nathan was
almost as hard on her as it was on me. She was by my side throughout the
whole thing, including the shot to stop his heart. Besides my husband,
she
was (and still is) my strength, my core, and my love. She was just
inspired.

Ooooo. Sue Grafton.

I suppose in the light of that poem, it's not really appropriate for me to
mention that I worship the very paper she writes on? She's a marvelous,
marvelous writer. And it sounds like, a marvelous mother too.

--angela

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:53:38 +0000, Emily wrote:

We confirmed that the chances of carrying this baby to term
and having it be viable and healthy are very, very slim.

I have no words :***(

{{{{{{Emily & family}}}}}} Take your time for this. You still sound so
rational where I would probably have lost it ten times over already. Don't
forget to grieve, it takes a long time to heal these wounds.

This one's for you (found it at a related Dutch site):

An angel in the book of life
Wrote down an infant's birth
and mentioned as he closed the book
..........too beautiful for earth

--
-- I
mommy to DS (19m)
mommy to two tiny angels (28 Oct 2003 & 17 Feb 2004)
guardian of DH (33)

Emily,
Our situation was similar -- there was *a* chance of Nathan going to term,
but there was no real set agreed upon method to fix his problems after
birth, and he could well have died from trying. He also might not have made
it to term. We kept getting more and more information, additional u/s,
echocardiograms, meeting with specialists, and the more information we got,
the grimmer it looked.

We had to make the best decision we could at the time. I made a list of all
of the reasons why we made our decision, and tucked it away in Nathan's Box.
Later on, when I had doubts or regrets, or was just deep in grief, I'd pull
it out and look at it, and remember WHY we made the decision we did. It
helped me not to second guess myself too much.
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clark_guest,
Password: Guest1
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Handmade Baby Blankets -- www.geocities.com/digit_the_cat/Blankets.html


"Emily" wrote in message
news:myL%b.407644$I06.4421928@attbi_s01...
Elfanie wrote:

I'm sorry....I wish there was a way they could say for 100% either way
(ie. if you do X, then Y will happen)....

My heart is just so heavy for you...I can't even express my sorrow
enough for you and your baby. When are you planning to induce? Is
there a risk to YOU of this situation? (from the bleeding..are they
worried about the risk to you of carrying any longer?)

Here's the question that I'm wondering (and yes, if you get tired of
answering my question, then please just forgive me for asking and
don't answer me!)..
We know that if baby is born right now - even if it has a fully
functioning placenta and was 100% healthy, it wouldn't have a chance
of survival...so if born now, your baby absolutely unquestionably will
not survive, 100%..
So is there a risk (other than the intense emotional anguish which
I'm sure would be very difficult) of carrying the baby for another 5
weeks if baby chooses to stay in there for 5 weeks....and delivering
then even if there is a 99% chance that the lungs won't be developed?
In other words...is there even a 1% chance of the lungs developing
properly with your condition? Or - is it 100% certain that the lungs
cannot develop - it's an impossibility? Or - does continuing the
pregnancy pose a risk to you (ie. placental abruptia)?

Hi again,

I was a little vague about this before because I didn't want folks
to tell me that I should hold out for that 1% or whatever it is, but
yes, it's not 100% certain that if we let things continue the baby
wouldn't survive. It sounds like the two most likely outcomes are
that I will miscarry on my own or that the baby will be still born
(i.e., make it past 20 weeks, but then not have enough lung capacity
to survive at all). I don't have any exact numbers, but those two
scenarios account for most of the 100%. The next most likely thing
is that the baby would survive, but with a high likelihood of all
the complications that come with extreme prematurity, on top of
diminshed lung capacity plus the other things that come with
low amniotic fluid (mobility issues among them). The remaining few
percent (and no, we didn't get any numbers, how could they know?)
are the chances of a healthy baby. There's also issues of infection
(and the effect that has on the baby) to throw in there, as the
amniotic sac appears to be breeched.

We also asked which of the three courses of action open to us
(D&E, induction, continuing the pregnancy and letting nature take
its course) holds the least risk to my health & future fertility.
The answer was induction, and part of the reasoning was the risk
of infection. Apparently D&E and induction are pretty close in
risks up to 20 weeks, and after that D&E becomes riskier, to the
point that they don't offer it past 20 weeks. Since I'm 20 weeks
on Monday (by the u/s dating, more by LMP, but I think I ovluated
late), that makes it sound like D&E is riskier to me. Plus, as
I've said elsewhere, I need to hold this baby and be present
in that moment. Neither are possible with D&E.


--
Emily
mom to Toby 5/1/02
#2 EDD 7/19/04

"Emily" wrote in message
news:J9M%b.134912$uV3.655242@attbi_s51...
Jamie Clark wrote:

Emily,
Well, my mother is a mystery writer by trade, but a good writer is a
good
writer, in my book. Her name is Sue Grafton. I swear, losing Nathan
was
almost as hard on her as it was on me. She was by my side throughout
the
whole thing, including the shot to stop his heart. Besides my husband,
she
was (and still is) my strength, my core, and my love. She was just
inspired.

I'm glad you liked it.

My mom is a poet and essayist and teacher of writing. When
my brother died, we all really benefitted from her writing about
it. I hope she will write about this too. I'm going to send
your mother's poem to her, I think she will appreciate it.
(She liked the Spirit Baby story, too.)

She's in Tucson until tomorrow night, but should be here with
me from Saturday night until I don't need her anymore. It will
be great to have her, I think. With DS, I didn't want anyone
but DH and our doula while I was in labor, although mom came
in time to meet us when we brought DS home. This time, I think
it will be good to have her there.

While I hope to go into labor on my own before Wednesday,
I hope that it doesn't mean she can't be here. We've arranged
that I'll call her if I am in labor, and she'll try to come
ASAP!

--
Emily
mom to Toby 5/1/02
#2 EDD 7/19/04

Yep, my mom loved the Spirit Baby post as well. She got all sniffly over
it. I was her spirit baby.
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clark_guest,
Password: Guest1
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Handmade Baby Blankets -- www.geocities.com/digit_the_cat/Blankets.html

Yes, she is marvelous, writer and mother. And you can always mention that
you worship her. So do I!
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clark_guest,
Password: Guest1
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Handmade Baby Blankets -- www.geocities.com/digit_the_cat/Blankets.html


"Chotii" wrote in message
...

"Jamie Clark" wrote in message
link.net...
Emily,
Well, my mother is a mystery writer by trade, but a good writer is a
good
writer, in my book. Her name is Sue Grafton. I swear, losing Nathan
was
almost as hard on her as it was on me. She was by my side throughout
the
whole thing, including the shot to stop his heart. Besides my husband,
she
was (and still is) my strength, my core, and my love. She was just
inspired.

Ooooo. Sue Grafton.

I suppose in the light of that poem, it's not really appropriate for me to
mention that I worship the very paper she writes on? She's a marvelous,
marvelous writer. And it sounds like, a marvelous mother too.

--angela

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:13:14 +0000, Jamie Clark wrote:

Thanks Anita. Here is another one. I don't mean to be a downer or bring
the group down, but this is a poem that my mom wrote for Nathan, when we
lost him. Still today, 6 years later, it brings tears to my eyes.

Not just to yours... :***)

--
-- I
mommy to DS (19m)
mommy to two tiny angels (28 Oct 2003 & 17 Feb 2004)
guardian of DH (33)

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:13:58 +0000, Jamie Clark wrote:

Anita's comment about Emily's baby's spirit made me think of this piece that
was recently posted to one of my pg loss support groups. I hope no one is
offended. I love this piece, and feel that not only is Taylor my spirit
baby, but that I am my mom's spirit baby.

I've read this story before, and this idea has helped me enormously in
dealing with my two m/c's. Thanks for posting it here.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (19m)
mommy to two tiny angels (28 Oct 2003 & 17 Feb 2004)
guardian of DH (33)

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:22:31 GMT, "Jamie Clark"
wrote:

Well, my mother is a mystery writer by trade, but a good writer is a good
writer, in my book. Her name is Sue Grafton.

I have read many of her books. She is a good writer!!

--
Daye
Momma to Jayan and Leopold
See Jayan and Leo: http://www.aloofhosting.com/jayleo/

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:00:37 GMT, "Jamie Clark"
wrote:

Since by the time we started to induce I was almost 24 weeks along,
there was the chance that Nathan could be born alive, which is
something I didn't think I could handle. We made the decision to
have a shot given to him to stop his heart, so that he would be
born still. So, our last visions of Nathan alive were via u/s, as
we watched the doctor give him the shot that stopped his heart.
It was the absolute hardest thing that I've ever had to do. And,
it's something that I don't talk about much, compared to how much
I do talk about Nathan in general, and the other specifics of our
loss. It's the hardest part.

The hardest part sounds very accurate; I don't recall you describing
Nathan's loss in that degree of detail before, and I'm so very sorry for
your horrible, painful loss of him.