Any advice for potty training??

On Dec 31 2007, 4:48 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
mommak wrote:
I know what you mean. Well Ariel just got her potty chair for
Christmas... and the first time I caught her pooping and grunting... I
got the potty and tried to see if she would sit on it. And that was a
NO. She would not sit on that potty at all while using the bathroom.
So I'm not gonig to force her... but I will remind her when I catch
her grunting... I will bring the potty to her and tell her... This is
where you go potty. I have let her see me sit on it... and I faked
grunting... she laughed. I don't think she is ready... but I will
continue to try..... but NOT push her.

If your mother reminded you to do something every
time the opportunity arose when you were not yet ready to
do it, would that not seem pushy to you even if you weren't
scolded for not doing it? If you were too little to hang
your coat up on a high hook, and every time you came in the
door you mother told you to hang up your coat, would you not
start to get resentful at having your mother continually raise
the issue? That's the path you're heading down, even if you
never once get testy or scold her or punish her. By the 100th
time she hears you tell her where big girls poop and pee,
she may be so cranky over it you'll either delay potty training
or, worse yet, start a pattern of withholding or other undesirable
behaviors.

Yep. There's a certain amount of concentration/relaxation needed to
have a BM -- it's one reason people want their privacy and quiet (as
Betsy mentioned).

By bringing her the potty when she's grunting, you've actually
interrupted that focus. That means she may well not be able to resume
what she was doing, however much she tries.

Lori G.

You asked for advice about potty training a 1 year old. I'm mom of
three. I guess the whole issue boils down to what you define as potty
trained. I know there are moms who claim to have potty trained infants
and young toddlers the same age as your child, but when you hear the
details of what is actually going on, it is MOM that is trained. It's
mom who has learned to recognize the signs and signals, the physical
patterns or rhythms involved, so that she knows to take the child to
the bathroom. If she's really lucky, the kid may be able to tell her
in some fashion that they need to go.

However, MY definition of being toilet trained is that the KID
realizes they need to go, stops what they are doing, goes into the
bathroom without prompting, takes down their own pants, sits on the
potty or toilet, and does their business, all with limited adult help,
urging, nagging, prompting (help with wiping is okay and expected in
preschool kids, particularly for bowel movements).

Given my definition of a trained child, I would personally say that
trying to train a 1 year old is a waste of time. Most kids train by my
definition somewhere in the 2 1/2- 3 1/2 range.

If you have to watch the kid like a hawk, take them to the bathroom,
take down the pants, sit with them the whole time etc. it seems to me
like a huge time waster for everyone involved.

Mary G.

On Jan 1, 3:29*pm, wrote:
You asked for advice about potty training a 1 year old. I'm mom of
three. I guess the whole issue boils down to what you define as potty
trained. I know there are moms who claim to have potty trained infants
and young toddlers the same age as your child, but when you hear the
details of what is actually going on, it is MOM that is trained. It's
mom who has learned to recognize the signs and signals, the physical
patterns or rhythms involved, so that she knows to take the child to
the bathroom. If she's really lucky, the kid may be able to tell her
in some fashion that they need to go.

However, MY definition of being toilet trained is that the KID
realizes they need to go, stops what they are doing, goes into the
bathroom without prompting, takes down their own pants, sits on the
potty or toilet, and does their business, all with limited adult help,
urging, nagging, prompting (help with wiping is okay and expected in
preschool kids, particularly for bowel movements).

Given my definition of a trained child, I would personally say that
trying to train a 1 year old is a waste of time. Most kids train by my
definition somewhere in the 2 1/2- 3 1/2 range.

If you have to watch the kid like a hawk, take them to the bathroom,
take down the pants, sit with them the whole time etc. it seems to me
like a huge time waster for everyone involved.

Mary G.

I understand what yall are saying as well. But I'm not hawking her
and I don't do it every time I catch he pottying. I have taken the
potty into our bathroom and I let her sit on it when she wants. I see
the difference in mom and child being potty trained.... I'm trying to
potty train me first... then her. I know it will be a while before
she can pull her own pants down and back up by herself.... but at
least I can start helping her and showing her. Helping her is better
than nothing to me. I have no intention of having her potty trained by
a certain age... I'm just going to go with her flow. I will show her
things and talk to her about them... even if she still doesn't
understand all the way. A child has to be taught everything pretty
much. So the same thing with potty training for me... she has to be
taught. She was taught to walk she was taught to drink from a sippy
cup and or from a straw. They have to be taught how to put their
clothes and shoes on right. Those things are taught... but some you
just don't realize you are teaching. Like putting their clothes on. My
1 yr old will put her hands through arm holes and she lifts her legs
to take off and put on her pants. These are things she is already
learning.... Just by being dressed every day. She starts to notice
things. She tries to put her shoes on... but she ain't quite there.
She TRIES though,.... and I think that is better than nothing. She
watches us use the bathroom... so she is learning whether she knows it
or not.

On Dec 31 2007, 5:48*pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
mommak wrote:
I know what you mean. *Well Ariel just got her potty chair for
Christmas... and the first time I caught her pooping and grunting... I
got the potty and tried to see if she would sit on it. And that was a
NO. She would not sit on that potty at all while using the bathroom.
So I'm not gonig to force her... but I will remind her when I catch
her grunting... I will bring the potty to her and tell her... This is
where you go potty. I have let her see me sit on it... and I faked
grunting... she laughed. I don't think she is ready... but I will
continue to try..... but NOT push her.

* * * * If your mother reminded you to do something every
time the opportunity arose when you were not yet ready to
do it, would that not seem pushy to you even if you weren't
scolded for not doing it? *If you were too little to hang
your coat up on a high hook, and every time you came in the
door you mother told you to hang up your coat, would you not
start to get resentful at having your mother continually raise
the issue? *That's the path you're heading down, even if you
never once get testy or scold her or punish her. *By the 100th
time she hears you tell her where big girls poop and pee,
she may be so cranky over it you'll either delay potty training
or, worse yet, start a pattern of withholding or other undesirable
behaviors.

Best wishes,
Ericka


I don't remind her every time. I have the potty in the bathroom and
when I am sitting on the BIG potty .... I let her sit on hers if that
is what she wants to do. I don't force her to do anything. I'm not
asking her for the impossible... not asking her for anything. I'm
trying to teach her something. Hanging up a coat on a high coat
hanger... that is something completely different. That is a chore...
potty is not. Potty ing is something you learn.... being tooo short
for something... is different. I wouldn't ask her to hang her coat up
if she couldn't reach it. But she can reach her potty. And edventually
she will learn what I am doing on the potty and she'll want to be like
momma... and then she will start to try. But for now... I let her do
want she wants. I always talk to her ... About everything... even if
she can't understand. I still talk to her cause I know one dya she
will understand. I not constantly waiting for her to potty... I just
take her with me when I go and let her watch.

mommak wrote:
On Dec 31 2007, 5:48 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
mommak wrote:
I know what you mean. Well Ariel just got her potty chair for
Christmas... and the first time I caught her pooping and grunting... I
got the potty and tried to see if she would sit on it. And that was a
NO. She would not sit on that potty at all while using the bathroom.
So I'm not gonig to force her... but I will remind her when I catch
her grunting... I will bring the potty to her and tell her... This is
where you go potty. I have let her see me sit on it... and I faked
grunting... she laughed. I don't think she is ready... but I will
continue to try..... but NOT push her.
If your mother reminded you to do something every
time the opportunity arose when you were not yet ready to
do it, would that not seem pushy to you even if you weren't
scolded for not doing it? If you were too little to hang
your coat up on a high hook, and every time you came in the
door you mother told you to hang up your coat, would you not
start to get resentful at having your mother continually raise
the issue? That's the path you're heading down, even if you
never once get testy or scold her or punish her. By the 100th
time she hears you tell her where big girls poop and pee,
she may be so cranky over it you'll either delay potty training
or, worse yet, start a pattern of withholding or other undesirable
behaviors.

I don't remind her every time. I have the potty in the bathroom and
when I am sitting on the BIG potty .... I let her sit on hers if that
is what she wants to do. I don't force her to do anything.

My point is that force is not required to make this
situation go awry, despite your good intentions. You can get
negative behaviors on her part without your ever uttering a cross
word to her. She might be fine, or she might rebel. The point
is that you're taking a gamble when you keep the issue in front
of her for what is likely to be a substantial amount of time.
I think you're seeing this through your adult eyes and your
personal bias, and not necessarily from the point of view of
a child.

I'm not
asking her for the impossible... not asking her for anything.

Sure you are. You're frequently reminding her that
big girls use the potty. Any child worth her salt is going
to pick up very quickly on the fact that you would like her
to use the potty. The most important thing in a young child's
life is the approval of his or her parents. You don't have to
be what *YOU* would consider pushy for her to feel pressure.
You have to look at this from *her* perspective, not an adult's
perspective.

I'm
trying to teach her something. Hanging up a coat on a high coat
hanger... that is something completely different. That is a chore...
potty is not.

To *YOU*, perhaps. She may see it very differently.
While some kids just don't like diapers, for most using the
potty *is* a chore. They may have fun with the novelty and
praise in the beginning, but many get quite resistant when
they get the picture that this is what they're going to be
expected to do day in and day out for the rest of their lives.
That's why it's very common to have an early period of relative
success followed by a period where the child is highly resistant.

Potty ing is something you learn.... being tooo short
for something... is different. I wouldn't ask her to hang her coat up
if she couldn't reach it. But she can reach her potty.

But it is the same in that she is not yet developmentally
ready for the basic building blocks of potty training, which include
recognizing the sensation that you need to go, having the ability
to hold it until you get to the bathroom, and having the ability
to go at will when you *do* get to the bathroom. Yes, some people
do use elimination timing successfully, but that is not what you're
talking about when you describe what you're doing with your daughter.
Elimination timing is not about teaching the child. It's about
teaching the parent to recognize the child's involuntary signals
(and then can grow over time into more of a two-way communication).
You're past that point with your daughter, and you've been talking
about *teaching* her how to use the potty--something that she is
almost certainly not developmentally ready for. So, in fact, you
*are* planning to fairly consistently remind her to something she
likely cannot do anymore than she could hang her coat up on a hook
too high for her to reach.

And edventually
she will learn what I am doing on the potty and she'll want to be like
momma... and then she will start to try.

Maybe. Or maybe she will be so fed up with it by that
time that she will dig in her heels and refuse. This is the
gamble you're taking. It pans out for some, and others get
bitten big time.

But for now... I let her do
want she wants. I always talk to her ... About everything... even if
she can't understand. I still talk to her cause I know one dya she
will understand. I not constantly waiting for her to potty... I just
take her with me when I go and let her watch.

I can see how *you* perceive it that way, but I think there's
a substantial risk that *she* will perceive it differently--if not
right now, then a little further down the line when she has more
understanding of what you're saying. Even *I* don't believe that
you don't really care when she starts using the potty. It seems
fairly clear to me that you *do* care that she potty train on what
most would consider to be the early side, even if you don't expect
it to happen today or tomorrow. I don't believe for a minute that
you will be happy as a clam if it's two years from now and your
daughter still hasn't chosen to potty train. Your daughter will be
much more in tune with your feelings on this--*regardless* of what
you say--and if she catches the slightest whiff that you have
anything invested in her potty training, that could easily cause her
to dig in her heels. It might not. There are some kids who are
much more compliant about these things. Many kids, however, are
very sensitive to being pushed in this area and paybacks are not
much fun. They don't have control over many things as toddlers,
but one thing they do control is when and where they poop and pee.
If they feel pushed (regardless of whether you think you're pushing
or not), many will assert their control over this issue and make
it very clear they they are in charge of this function.

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Jan 2, 12:09*pm, mommak wrote:
On Jan 1, 3:29*pm, wrote:





You asked for advice about potty training a 1 year old. I'm mom of
three. I guess the whole issue boils down to what you define as potty
trained. I know there are moms who claim to have potty trained infants
and young toddlers the same age as your child, but when you hear the
details of what is actually going on, it is MOM that is trained. It's
mom who has learned to recognize the signs and signals, the physical
patterns or rhythms involved, so that she knows to take the child to
the bathroom. If she's really lucky, the kid may be able to tell her
in some fashion that they need to go.

However, MY definition of being toilet trained is that the KID
realizes they need to go, stops what they are doing, goes into the
bathroom without prompting, takes down their own pants, sits on the
potty or toilet, and does their business, all with limited adult help,
urging, nagging, prompting (help with wiping is okay and expected in
preschool kids, particularly for bowel movements).

Given my definition of a trained child, I would personally say that
trying to train a 1 year old is a waste of time. Most kids train by my
definition somewhere in the 2 1/2- 3 1/2 range.

If you have to watch the kid like a hawk, take them to the bathroom,
take down the pants, sit with them the whole time etc. it seems to me
like a huge time waster for everyone involved.

Mary G.

I understand what yall are saying as well. But I'm *not hawking her
and I don't do it every time I catch he pottying. I have taken the
potty into our bathroom and I let her sit on it when she wants. I see
the difference in mom and child being potty trained.... I'm trying to
potty train me first... then her. *I know it will be a while before
she can pull her own pants down and back up by herself.... but at
least I can start helping her and showing her. Helping her is better
than nothing to me. I have no intention of having her potty trained by
a certain age... I'm just going to go with her flow. I will show her
things and talk to her about them... even if she still doesn't
understand all the way. A child has to be taught everything pretty
much. So the same thing with potty training for me... she has to be
taught. She was taught to walk *she was taught to drink from a sippy
cup and or from a straw. They have to be taught how to put their
clothes and shoes on right. Those things are taught... but some you
just don't realize you are teaching. Like putting their clothes on. My
1 yr old will put her hands through arm holes and she lifts her legs
to take off and put on her pants. These are things she is already
learning.... Just by being dressed every day. She starts to notice
things. She tries to put her shoes on... but she ain't quite there.
She TRIES though,.... and I think that is better than nothing. She
watches us use the bathroom... so she is learning whether she knows it
or not.- Hide quoted text -

But you also have to understand that potty learning also involves
physical readiness, which usually doesn't develop until 18 months to 2
years. Its not enough that the child is aware that her diaper is
soiled, or even that she is soil*ing* the diaper; the child has to
recognize that she needs to eliminate, and be able to hold off for
some time. Until the child has reached that level of physical
development, she's just not going to be able to do it, and that level
of development is not common in a child your daughter's age.

There's nothing wrong with introducing the concept of using the potty
or toilet and discussing it; just don't be disappointed if your child
is not physically ready, and don't push it.

For the record, when my son was about 2-1/2, he started peeing in the
tub. I grabbed a potty, held it under the stream, and said *that's
what mommy means when she says pee on the potty* A light went off,
sort of like that's all you want; sheesh, I can do that. He was using
the potty reliably, with virtually no accidents, within a week.

Barbara

mommak wrote:
On Dec 31 2007, 5:48 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
mommak wrote:
I know what you mean. Well Ariel just got her potty chair for
Christmas... and the first time I caught her pooping and grunting... I
got the potty and tried to see if she would sit on it. And that was a
NO. She would not sit on that potty at all while using the bathroom.
So I'm not gonig to force her... but I will remind her when I catch
her grunting... I will bring the potty to her and tell her... This is
where you go potty. I have let her see me sit on it... and I faked
grunting... she laughed. I don't think she is ready... but I will
continue to try..... but NOT push her.
If your mother reminded you to do something every
time the opportunity arose when you were not yet ready to
do it, would that not seem pushy to you even if you weren't
scolded for not doing it? If you were too little to hang
your coat up on a high hook, and every time you came in the
door you mother told you to hang up your coat, would you not
start to get resentful at having your mother continually raise
the issue? That's the path you're heading down, even if you
never once get testy or scold her or punish her. By the 100th
time she hears you tell her where big girls poop and pee,
she may be so cranky over it you'll either delay potty training
or, worse yet, start a pattern of withholding or other undesirable
behaviors.

Best wishes,
Ericka


I don't remind her every time. I have the potty in the bathroom and
when I am sitting on the BIG potty .... I let her sit on hers if that
is what she wants to do. I don't force her to do anything. I'm not
asking her for the impossible... not asking her for anything. I'm
trying to teach her something. Hanging up a coat on a high coat
hanger... that is something completely different. That is a chore...
potty is not. Potty ing is something you learn.... being tooo short
for something... is different. I wouldn't ask her to hang her coat up
if she couldn't reach it. But she can reach her potty. And edventually
she will learn what I am doing on the potty and she'll want to be like
momma... and then she will start to try. But for now... I let her do
want she wants. I always talk to her ... About everything... even if
she can't understand. I still talk to her cause I know one dya she
will understand. I not constantly waiting for her to potty... I just
take her with me when I go and let her watch.

While I wouldn't discourage her from learning more about her body
functions, but I wouldn't worry about it all. When the time is right,
she will learn. Right now, there are more important things to learn and
do, for both of you.

Jeff

On Jan 2, 11:09 am, mommak wrote:
On Jan 1, 3:29 pm, wrote:



You asked for advice about potty training a 1 year old. I'm mom of
three. I guess the whole issue boils down to what you define as potty
trained. I know there are moms who claim to have potty trained infants
and young toddlers the same age as your child, but when you hear the
details of what is actually going on, it is MOM that is trained. It's
mom who has learned to recognize the signs and signals, the physical
patterns or rhythms involved, so that she knows to take the child to
the bathroom. If she's really lucky, the kid may be able to tell her
in some fashion that they need to go.

However, MY definition of being toilet trained is that the KID
realizes they need to go, stops what they are doing, goes into the
bathroom without prompting, takes down their own pants, sits on the
potty or toilet, and does their business, all with limited adult help,
urging, nagging, prompting (help with wiping is okay and expected in
preschool kids, particularly for bowel movements).

Given my definition of a trained child, I would personally say that
trying to train a 1 year old is a waste of time. Most kids train by my
definition somewhere in the 2 1/2- 3 1/2 range.

If you have to watch the kid like a hawk, take them to the bathroom,
take down the pants, sit with them the whole time etc. it seems to me
like a huge time waster for everyone involved.

Mary G.

I understand what yall are saying as well. But I'm not hawking her
and I don't do it every time I catch he pottying. I have taken the
potty into our bathroom and I let her sit on it when she wants. I see
the difference in mom and child being potty trained.... I'm trying to
potty train me first... then her. I know it will be a while before
she can pull her own pants down and back up by herself.... but at
least I can start helping her and showing her. Helping her is better
than nothing to me. I have no intention of having her potty trained by
a certain age... I'm just going to go with her flow. I will show her
things and talk to her about them... even if she still doesn't
understand all the way. A child has to be taught everything pretty
much. So the same thing with potty training for me... she has to be
taught. She was taught to walk she was taught to drink from a sippy
cup and or from a straw.

There's a big difference between actively teaching (bringing the potty
to a grunting toddler and telling her this is where big girls poop)
and allowing a kid to watch and learn through osmosis. And when you're
actively teaching, you make sure that it's something appropriate to
the child's development. Did you try to teach your daughter to walk
when she was 2 days old? Did you give her the sippy cup or straw when
she was 2 weeks old so she could "try" and "practice"?

It's a good idea to model "please" and "thank you" when you talk with
a baby -- when she hands you a toy, for instance. But did you make it
a point to tell your 3-month-old reaching for a toy that "big girls
say 'please'?"

Lori G

On Jan 2, 12:09*pm, mommak wrote:
On Jan 1, 3:29*pm, wrote:





You asked for advice about potty training a 1 year old. I'm mom of
three. I guess the whole issue boils down to what you define as potty
trained. I know there are moms who claim to have potty trained infants
and young toddlers the same age as your child, but when you hear the
details of what is actually going on, it is MOM that is trained. It's
mom who has learned to recognize the signs and signals, the physical
patterns or rhythms involved, so that she knows to take the child to
the bathroom. If she's really lucky, the kid may be able to tell her
in some fashion that they need to go.

However, MY definition of being toilet trained is that the KID
realizes they need to go, stops what they are doing, goes into the
bathroom without prompting, takes down their own pants, sits on the
potty or toilet, and does their business, all with limited adult help,
urging, nagging, prompting (help with wiping is okay and expected in
preschool kids, particularly for bowel movements).

Given my definition of a trained child, I would personally say that
trying to train a 1 year old is a waste of time. Most kids train by my
definition somewhere in the 2 1/2- 3 1/2 range.

If you have to watch the kid like a hawk, take them to the bathroom,
take down the pants, sit with them the whole time etc. it seems to me
like a huge time waster for everyone involved.

Mary G.

I understand what yall are saying as well. But I'm *not hawking her
and I don't do it every time I catch he pottying. I have taken the
potty into our bathroom and I let her sit on it when she wants. I see
the difference in mom and child being potty trained.... I'm trying to
potty train me first... then her. *I know it will be a while before
she can pull her own pants down and back up by herself.... but at
least I can start helping her and showing her. Helping her is better
than nothing to me. I have no intention of having her potty trained by
a certain age... I'm just going to go with her flow. I will show her
things and talk to her about them... even if she still doesn't
understand all the way. A child has to be taught everything pretty
much. So the same thing with potty training for me... she has to be
taught. She was taught to walk *she was taught to drink from a sippy
cup and or from a straw. They have to be taught how to put their
clothes and shoes on right. Those things are taught... but some you
just don't realize you are teaching. Like putting their clothes on. My
1 yr old will put her hands through arm holes and she lifts her legs
to take off and put on her pants. These are things she is already
learning.... Just by being dressed every day. She starts to notice
things. She tries to put her shoes on... but she ain't quite there.
She TRIES though,.... and I think that is better than nothing. She
watches us use the bathroom... so she is learning whether she knows it
or not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

[Coming into the discussion somewhat late].
But WHY? What do you hope to gain by 'helping her and showing her'
at this stage. There's an old joke that if you start potty training at
12 months you'll be done in a year and a half. If you start potty
training at 2 1/2 you'll be done in a week. This really isn't
something you have to labor at for months and years in order to
succceed. When kids are ready to train they usually train pretty
quickly (a few days to a few weeks). When they are NOT ready to train,
you will be at it for months or years ... and the end result WILL be,
at best, the same, and at worst even worse, since the child will be
frustrated and resisistant, and you'll end up in a power struggle.

Now, I'm not saying you should never mention the potty, or must wait
until she demands to be out of diapers. But don't make a big deal
about it. If she follows you into the bathroom, an OCCASSIONAL
mention that 'big girls and mommies pee on the potty and when YOU are
a big girl you won't pee in your diapers' is fine. But buying her a
potty for her Christmas at 13 months? Why buy her a gift she won't be
able to use for, probably, at LEAST a year, and possibly 2 years or
more?

You don't have to 'teach' kids to control their bodily functions any
more than you teach them to walk or talk. (How exactly did you teach
your child to walk? Didn't she make the usual progression from
sitting to pulling up to standing to walking on her own?) When they
reach the point of developmental readiness, and are interested, they
do it on their own. Then you give them a little extra help and
encouragement, and provide them with an appropriate receptable (potty,
toilet seat adapter), and they are trained. With minimal effort from
you.

Now... if you really want to spend the next 18 months working on this,
and Ariel is good with it ... more power to you. But I prefered to
spend my time with my toddler in more enjoyable pursuits -- reading a
story, playing games. But if Ariel DOES get frustrated or resistant,
please put the potty away and forget about it until she is more likely
to be ready -- which, as noted, will probably be around 2 1/2-3 1/2.

Naomi

schrieb:
snip
Naomi

Hi Naomi!
I remember you! From way back when I had Sam (7 years ago).
I'm just always happy to see familiar names :-) So I'm just waving to
say HI :-)

cu
nicole