teenager breaking curfew

On 11 Mar 2008 11:58:45 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article ,
Barbara says...

On Mar 11, 1:47=A0pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Stephanie says.=
..

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Banty wrote:
In article , Ericka
Kammerer says...
enigma wrote:

=A0are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when
i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well,
except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking
to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all
night to get there & back.
=A0most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before
midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the
library until it closed at 1am.
=A0is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party
types get more press?
I think both sorts occur in abundance.

The quieter sorts do try to be party types ;-)

They do? =A0I'm sure some do, but certainly not all. =A0Not
by a long shot.

That's part of the *point* of getting out and growing up.

Actually, I'd disagree with that. =A0There are plenty of
folks who never feel the urge to sow their wild oats, and it's
not like those who don't are incomplete and doomed to, I dunno,
a particularly wild mid-life crisis or something ;-) =A0There are
also plenty who do. =A0Takes all sorts, and all that.

Best wishes,
Ericka

It seems to me that folks who DONT go sow their wild oats learned their
lessons the easy way. And they should be thankful for that.

Often the easy way being, that they had some latitude while they still cou=
ld
fall back on their parents if need be.

I'd rather see some of the early-adulthood exploration happen when I'm sti=
ll
around (meaning my kid is still around home). =A0It makes zero sense to me=
to have
it happen after I've kicked him out over questions of control in the house=
hold.

There may be some kids who both need and would brook to curfew rules at th=
at age
(being careful not to be so blackandwhite ;-).

But I think for the most part, they either don't *need* the curfew (I had =
one
and totally didn't need it; should have defied it *more*), or are wild eno=
ugh to
need it but won't be cooperating.

At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew?
Marriage? =A0(Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daught=
ers.)
College when there's just nothing you can do about it? =A0Where's that tra=
nsition
time?

I'm not sure when I would stop giving my child a curfew. I suppose
when I deemed him ready. Maybe that will be 15; maybe it will be 20.
I don't know in advance. I think its absurd to draw a bright line
that all teens are ready to function without a curfew at age 18, and
to suggest that those who disagree are bad parents.

The bright line is drawn by many areas of the law, first of all. In recognition
of where development is at that point for most.

Its also a
strawman to argue that the choices are *obey* or *kick the kid out*

I don't think everyone thinks so, or that anyone necessarily thinks so, and
didn't pose it as a strawman. Some here *have* said so, and I think that that,
when it's said, is contradictory. But I'm not arguing "those who support a
curfew at 18 also think x and I'll shoot that down." Because I don't think
that's what some others are saying.

I
expect that I will have an entire arsenal of consequences for
disobeying rules when my son is a teenager, including but not limited
to restricting access to cash and vehicles.

Why are you drawing the line at 18? Why not 17? Why not 16, when
most kids get dirvers licenses and are no longer reliant upon parents
for transportation? Why not when they start high school? Many people
deem their kids old enough to go to overnight camp at age 8. If they
can be away for the summer, why should they have curfews?

Overnight camp under close adult supervision is quite a different thing from a
curfew. (Now, that *would* be a strawman - "you said curfews at 18 are bad
because that means kids can't go on overnight camp at age 8.")

Banty

Her point being 18 is arbitrary. It could go the other way and be 21. Why
not 21?

In article , toypup says...

On 11 Mar 2008 11:58:45 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article ,
Barbara says...

On Mar 11, 1:47=A0pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Stephanie says.=
..

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Banty wrote:
In article , Ericka
Kammerer says...
enigma wrote:

=A0are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when
i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well,
except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking
to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all
night to get there & back.
=A0most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before
midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the
library until it closed at 1am.
=A0is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party
types get more press?
I think both sorts occur in abundance.

The quieter sorts do try to be party types ;-)

They do? =A0I'm sure some do, but certainly not all. =A0Not
by a long shot.

That's part of the *point* of getting out and growing up.

Actually, I'd disagree with that. =A0There are plenty of
folks who never feel the urge to sow their wild oats, and it's
not like those who don't are incomplete and doomed to, I dunno,
a particularly wild mid-life crisis or something ;-) =A0There are
also plenty who do. =A0Takes all sorts, and all that.

Best wishes,
Ericka

It seems to me that folks who DONT go sow their wild oats learned their
lessons the easy way. And they should be thankful for that.

Often the easy way being, that they had some latitude while they still cou=
ld
fall back on their parents if need be.

I'd rather see some of the early-adulthood exploration happen when I'm sti=
ll
around (meaning my kid is still around home). =A0It makes zero sense to me=
to have
it happen after I've kicked him out over questions of control in the house=
hold.

There may be some kids who both need and would brook to curfew rules at th=
at age
(being careful not to be so blackandwhite ;-).

But I think for the most part, they either don't *need* the curfew (I had =
one
and totally didn't need it; should have defied it *more*), or are wild eno=
ugh to
need it but won't be cooperating.

At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew?
Marriage? =A0(Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daught=
ers.)
College when there's just nothing you can do about it? =A0Where's that tra=
nsition
time?

I'm not sure when I would stop giving my child a curfew. I suppose
when I deemed him ready. Maybe that will be 15; maybe it will be 20.
I don't know in advance. I think its absurd to draw a bright line
that all teens are ready to function without a curfew at age 18, and
to suggest that those who disagree are bad parents.

The bright line is drawn by many areas of the law, first of all. In recognition
of where development is at that point for most.

Its also a
strawman to argue that the choices are *obey* or *kick the kid out*

I don't think everyone thinks so, or that anyone necessarily thinks so, and
didn't pose it as a strawman. Some here *have* said so, and I think that that,
when it's said, is contradictory. But I'm not arguing "those who support a
curfew at 18 also think x and I'll shoot that down." Because I don't think
that's what some others are saying.

I
expect that I will have an entire arsenal of consequences for
disobeying rules when my son is a teenager, including but not limited
to restricting access to cash and vehicles.

Why are you drawing the line at 18? Why not 17? Why not 16, when
most kids get dirvers licenses and are no longer reliant upon parents
for transportation? Why not when they start high school? Many people
deem their kids old enough to go to overnight camp at age 8. If they
can be away for the summer, why should they have curfews?

Overnight camp under close adult supervision is quite a different thing from a
curfew. (Now, that *would* be a strawman - "you said curfews at 18 are bad
because that means kids can't go on overnight camp at age 8.")

Banty

Her point being 18 is arbitrary. It could go the other way and be 21. Why
not 21?

Why not 27, then?

Banty

Beliavsky wrote in news:337860a6-4e2a-
:

On Mar 11, 1:05*pm, enigma wrote:

lee having an FBI tapped phone does nothing for a teen's
social life, BTW

Did that really happen to you?

yes, our phone was tapped. it wasn't a secret. we all knew
about it & i did feel it was only polite to tell people who
called me that our phone was tapped. my father was working on
a top secret government project (relating to a military
device) & i was an anti-war protester. it was not the best
social situation, but these things happen.
i have had more recently (but not currently), an FBI trap on
my phone, but that was because of a stalker. the phone company
was unable to trace the calls & asked the FBI to get involved.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

"Sue" wrote in
:

"enigma" wrote in message
are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17
when i went away to college. i did not stay up all night,
well, except for one time a couple friends & i decided
that walking to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that
did take all night to get there & back.
most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before
midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at
the library until it closed at 1am.
is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party
types get more press?

Yes, most of them are. You seem to be a rare bird in that
you didn't stay up late. When I was growing up on college
campus, it was rare that anyone wasn't out partying. Also,
I have read that the brain of a teenager doesn't mature
until they are in their 20's. There are exceptions to every
rule of course, I was pretty mature for my age, but still
got into a lot of trouble and did things that I am
surprised I am still alive these days.

oh, i did a lot of amazingly stupid things (in retrospect, of
course. at the *time* they seemed reasonable), but partying
late wasn't one of them...
maybe being exposed to all the substance abusing kids was
part of it, or that my parents never made alcohol seem
mysterious & desirable, but unobtainable. we had wine with
dinner if we wanted from age 6 or so. we were never forbidden
from tasting cocktails if my parents had them. it held no
interest for me.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Ericka Kammerer
says...

enigma wrote:

are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when
i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well,
except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking
to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all
night to get there & back.
most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before
midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the
library until it closed at 1am.
is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party
types get more press?

I think both sorts occur in abundance.

The quieter sorts do try to be party types ;-) After awhile, the party
types
find they have to cool it, or they're failing/broke.

That's part of the *point* of getting out and growing up.

Or they just get old and bored

I've been reading this thread with interest. My kids are little yet so not
sure what I'll do. I imagine I'll have some house rules. Frankly I'm very
worried about it because at least two of my kids will turn 19yo before they
graduate high school. My dh isn't worried at all. I think he was the type
to self regulate. Me - not so much.

--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06

"Chris"
I think fun comes before sleep for most teens. I don't' think it has
anything to do with sleep needs. lol. I worked 2 jobs from 19-22, and
while I knew my sleep needs, I had to work 2 jobs to stay out on my
own. I exhausted myself even further to squeeze in some "fun." lol.

It does for some adults. I mentioned up thread that I was not good at
self-regulation as an older teen and young adult. While I didn't fail or go
broke I did get old and bored of it all. I no longer party but I have to
make myself go to bed and as often as not I stay up to late messing around.
Some people are just willing to sacrifice sleep.

On the other hand...bed times and curfews are two separate things in my
head. I doubt I'll be giving my 18yo a bed time but I don't think I'll be
to happy about them coming in at 4am all the time either.

I have a relative whose oldest two were 18 all through their senior year.
They both moved out. Not to party either - just moved out.


--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06

On Mar 11, 2:09�pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Banty wrote:
At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew?
Marriage? �(Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daughters.)
College when there's just nothing you can do about it? �Where's that transition
time?

� � � � I think it's a really individual choice, depending on the
individuals involved and the circumstances. �I think for a lot of
kids, they never need a curfew and all that's appropriate is a rule
that they keep you informed of where they are and when they'll be back,
and they update you promptly if there are any changes. �Other kids
may need a very strict curfew for some period of time, followed by
a gradual transfer of responsibility as they mature and demonstrate
appropriate behavior. �For some, a curfew might show up only as a
consequence for inappropriate behavior. �I'm not sure there is even
a one-size-fits-most point in time at which curfews go from appropriate
to inappropriate.

Best wishes,
Ericka

I have a better question, the same way it was asked of me by my
mother, what on earth is there to do for ANYONE after 2 a.m.(club
closing time in case the minor makes it in lol or after the late-late
showing at the movie theater) that is any good or productive, other
than work? Sure, the first time your curfew gets lifted and you are
free to decide just when you'll come home (not because you were
decorating all night for a senior prom or anything), it feels awesome
that you got to watch that clock go waaaay past it, but then what was
there to do? Just curious.

Straight-A honor roll student here who was commissioned by the
principal and superintendent to do freelance work for them because I
was so trustworthy, mature, dependable, and I was shy, still graduated
a virgin, had a job, paid for my own car, etc. and yet whenever I was
able to pull off a "I'm staying the night at so-and-so's house,"
because we would be able to stay out 'til whenever or they were having
a party because their parents were gone for the weekend, we found all
sorts of mischief that could have resulted in serious consequences in
a number of ways after midnight. Heck, it was all in good fun, in the
mind of an 18-year-old. I also found myself in predicaments that could
have turned out a whole lot worse than they did with the kids who had
no curfew, and the ones who had really early ones were the worst by
the way, so I do have to thank my lucky stars for being able to keep
my wits about me and inventing ways to remove myself from those
situations. I can curl my mother's hair with the stories I share now,
as I'm sure some of the parents of those other children nearly drop
dead. The point being, my mother was absolutely right, there was
NOTHING good ever to come out of staying out all night. lol.

"enigma" wrote in message
oh, i did a lot of amazingly stupid things (in retrospect, of
course. at the *time* they seemed reasonable), but partying
late wasn't one of them...
maybe being exposed to all the substance abusing kids was
part of it, or that my parents never made alcohol seem
mysterious & desirable, but unobtainable. we had wine with
dinner if we wanted from age 6 or so. we were never forbidden
from tasting cocktails if my parents had them. it held no
interest for me.

Yep, whereas in my family drinking was taboo. One couldn't even talk about
it. If you had one drink you were an alcoholic. Even though I did stupid
things, I still had my head on my shoulders and definitely was much better
than some of the other people that I knew. (doesn't make it better, but I do
think how I was raised and the values instilled had something to do with
it). I do wonder if the kids that totally went off the nut were the ones
that parents micromanaged.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Sue" wrote in
news:T9qdnXyJYKKKNkranZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com:

"enigma" wrote in message
oh, i did a lot of amazingly stupid things (in retrospect,
of course. at the *time* they seemed reasonable), but
partying late wasn't one of them...
maybe being exposed to all the substance abusing kids was
part of it, or that my parents never made alcohol seem
mysterious & desirable, but unobtainable. we had wine with
dinner if we wanted from age 6 or so. we were never
forbidden from tasting cocktails if my parents had them.
it held no interest for me.

Yep, whereas in my family drinking was taboo. One couldn't
even talk about it. If you had one drink you were an
alcoholic. Even though I did stupid things, I still had my
head on my shoulders and definitely was much better than
some of the other people that I knew. (doesn't make it
better, but I do think how I was raised and the values
instilled had something to do with it). I do wonder if the
kids that totally went off the nut were the ones that
parents micromanaged.

it might be, but i started college in 1972. drinking age was
18 (went to 21 after i turned 21, then back to 18, then to 21
again). while there *was* drinking on campus & a few parties
that got out of hand, there were NOT freshmen dying of alcohol
poisoning. binge drinking rarely happened.
i suspect this was because alcohol advertising was not as
common yet, plus the kids of my age were raised by the 50s
'suburban cocktail party' generation. while we saw alcohol as
a social norm, we mostly didn't see it as an 'escape' or as a
way to appear sexy (that was cigarettes in my age group. ick).
yes, there were kids with drinking problems, or drug
problems, but there are & have always been addictive
personalities.
but if you add in micromanaging a child's entire free time up
until he gets set loose at college or off to his own
apartment, *then* you can run into some seriously out-of-
control problems, because the kid has no idea how to act when
not being told what to do.
i don't know. i am bringing Boo up like i was. he helps us
brew beer (he's tried it & doesn't like the taste). he's being
told the truth about drugs. he's allowed a lot of freedom, but
it's all based on his behaviour/maturity. last year he was
allowed to go to the pond by himself (must remember to put
limits on the # of frogs allowed in the observation tank this
year). this year he's working towards earning a carving knife
set (he'll be 8 in Aug). at this point he says he doesn't want
to go to college, but i think it's more because he's not
getting along in school. he's bright, but unfocused and
doesn't have friends at school. we may move him to a different
school next year, with a better arts & languages program,
robotics, & shop (woodworking, welding). i applied to Cornell
Veterinary school when i was 8...
lee

--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

"Nikki" wrote in
:

I've been reading this thread with interest. My kids are
little yet so not sure what I'll do. I imagine I'll have
some house rules. Frankly I'm very worried about it
because at least two of my kids will turn 19yo before they
graduate high school. My dh isn't worried at all. I think
he was the type to self regulate. Me - not so much.

don't you already have 'house rules'? as the kids get more
freedom to do things, they also get rules they have to abide
by, like if Boo is going to the pond he has to tell an adult
first. if he's going over to Liam's & Liam's family decides to
go get ice cream, he needs to tell us before going along.
it's part of the kids growing up. they get a privelege, but
they almost always come with 'rules' to facilitate
coordination with the rest of the family.
more house rules type would be: do your homework before going
out to play (Boo gets 4-6 pages of homework at the beginning
of the week to be turned in Friday. he gets to choose how &
when it gets done. sometimes he does it all the day he gets
it, sometimes he does the math one day & the language the
next, but it's all done well before it's due)
lee



--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.