reputable homebirth info/stats needed

Go Kiwi's Go!!!!!!!!!!!

Pip

Fellow Kiwi

P.S My Mum said the other day that they had finally come up with some
documentation that proved that pavlova was invented in Australia after all
Kiwi's please tell me this is not so!

Sue writes:

: And I would not want to birth in your country. I feel that the medical
: society in other countries are not as well versed in the technology that we
: seem to have here. And there seems to be a lot of outdated information in
: other countries. If a woman wants intervention, she can get it and if she
: wants a lower intervention, then she can get that too. The point is there is
: a choice and the woman needs to be informed and make informed choices based
: on what is needed.
: --
: Sue (mom to three girls)

This is a woefully ignorant statement. Despite the use of technology,
the US has one of the worst infant mortality rated of developed
nations. There are MANY countires with higher homebirth rates which
also have much lower infant mortality rates. A good example is the
Netherlands, which has the highest homebirth rate in the world, but
has one of the lowest infant mortality rates, much better than the
United States. If you are going to make statements about informed
choice, then you need to personally acquire a lot more information!

Larry

Daye wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 11:41:09 +1300, Unadulterated Me
wrote:


The first country to give women the right to vote


Aussies claim that too. I wonder if this part of the NZ = part of
Australia thing?


Woman received the right to vote September 19, 1893. Australia gave
woman the right to be elected to Parliament first...although we were the
first to have a woman Prime Minister, we are on our second in fact ;-P

http://www.iwdc.org/resources/timeline.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elective_rights
http://www.dailypast.com/oceania/new...men-vote.shtml


Andrea

Elfanie wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:28:37 +1300, Unadulterated Me
wrote:



Your the one living in the country that still has routine circ,


Umm....
and...? Because many parents make a choice you obviously disagree
with....? what's your point?

My point is it's an outdated routine practice. If informed parents in
your country want to lop the top of their sons penis more power to them.
Your the ones that have the circ debates and wars, argue amongst
yourselves, the rest of the world will leave you too it.



eye
ointment, compulsary vacination,


vaccinations are encouraged. They aren't manditory.

Not what some people in the US are posting, they are saying it's
required by law in some states. Perhaps they are misinformed, since your
such a self proclaimed childbirth and parenting know it all why don't
you seek them out and *nod* or *splutter* or whatever the **** you do to
patronise people, and tell them how wrong they are.



If a woman wants intervention, she can get it

And pay through the nose for it. Here she has the same choices and it's
free.



*snorts her soda and tries not to laugh*
FREE? You think it's free??

Oh calm down before you blow a vein, you know what I meant, it's free as
in the consumer does not pay for her maternity care, the government
does. It's funded by our taxes, along with other general health care,
education, roads and other things.


True choice only occurs when woman have full access to a range of
services, and are fully informed in order to make the right choice for
them.


I disagree.

You would, pull the stick out from up your arse and get over yourself,
the US isn't the be all end all, you suck, deal with it and **** off.

Andrea

Pip wrote:

Go Kiwi's Go!!!!!!!!!!!

Pip

Fellow Kiwi

P.S My Mum said the other day that they had finally come up with some
documentation that proved that pavlova was invented in Australia after all
Kiwi's please tell me this is not so!



Blasphemy!!
No it's not true.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3020282a11,00.html

01 September 2004
By GREG TOURELLE

SYDNEY: They might have won more Olympic medals, but the Aussies have
conceded the pavlova is a Kiwi concoction.

Well, an Australian food historian has – and an Australian Broadcasting
Corporation television programme has agreed with him that those "blasted
Kiwis" have won this round of the raging trans-Tasman debate.

They couldn't do much else, because a New Zealander has come up with
proof of the pudding's existence in Godzone much earlier than the date
the Aussies claim it originated in Perth.

But Professor Helen Leach of Otago University admits her copy of the
1933 Rangiora Mothers' Union cookery book is a "minor victory" which
won't end the argument.

However, she is now researching a 1929 recipe which might give the New
Zealand claims even more credence over the Aussies' Perth pav.

The Australians have long claimed the light and fluffy meringue dessert
as their own – based on a cake Bert Sachse baked at Perth's Esplanade
Hotel in Perth in 1935.

New Zealanders have rebuffed that their grandparents were scoffing
pavlovas much earlier than that.

The ABC's George Negus Tonight programme canvassed both sides of the
debate in a light, fluffy manner last night, with Prof Leach and
Australian food historian Michael Symons giving their views.

Mr Symons conceded that New Zealanders had a recipe, often called a
meringue cake but sometimes called a pavlova, before anything like that
was named in Australia.

"I can see why, in many ways, it is a healthy thing, a liberating thing
for New Zealanders to feel proud of the fact that they are really the
ones that invented the pavlova," he said.

Prof Leach said her copy of the Rangiora book had "the correct name,
with the correct ingredients and correct method" for cooking the pavlova
cake, which was named after the famed Russian ballerina, Anna Pavlova,
who toured Australia and New Zealand in 1926.

"So, as you can imagine, I thought there was clearly something wrong
with the Australian claim," she told the programme.

Prof Leach, who studies the evolution of human diet and has researched
the pavlova's origins for the past decade, said she had also had a copy
of a 1929 recipe for the pavlova from a rural New Zealand publication.

That recipe's author had a pseudonym and she wanted to carry out more
research on it before revealing further details, she said today.

She said there were a lot of different desserts in the 1920s and 30s
called the pavlova.

"The very earliest pavlova is a jelly, that might not have anything to
do with Australia or New Zealand."

Its recipe came in a Davis Gelatine Ltd cookbook published in 1926. But
Davis Gelatine was a multinational company with branches in South
Africa, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, so the recipe could have come
from anywhere.

The soft centred meringue dessert with cream on the top and a kiwifruit
garnish that we know and cherish as the pav evolved from a filled cake.

It was almost like a sponge cake with a filling between two pieces of
meringue, Prof Leach said.

"People realised that it was incredibly difficult to do without having
fractures in the cake, so they left it as one piece and so instead of
having a filling they just had a topping."

Kiwifruit or chinese gooseberries did not arrive until after World War
2, and a variety of in-season fruit, including pineapple, strawberries
and passionfruit was used to decorate the pavlova between the 1920s and 40s.

Prof Leach's research showed Australia and New Zealand cooking in the
1920s and 30s was almost indistinguishable. "Recipes were flying across
the Tasman in both directions. I have seen community recipe books from
Australia from that time and they are almost the same."

The problem was working out which side of the Tasman they originated.

Bert Sachse's pavlova could have occurred independently of the earlier
New Zealand pavs, or it might have been a case of memory reconstruction,
said Prof Leach.

"We don't know. The trouble is they seem rather similar."

She doesn't think the identity of whoever made the slight change of
ingredients from meringue cake to pavlova cake will ever be known – and
thinks people on both sides of the Tasman prefer it that way.

"I am convinced that no one wants it solved, so whatever I say the
dispute will continue forever."

Elfanie wrote:


Over 70 licensed and legal midwives in my state alone...and I don't
life in one of the higher populated states...

Now, Stephanie, you know I usually see eye to eye with
you on many issues, but can you really say with a straight face
that midwifery services (particularly homebirth midwifery services)
are widely available in the US? Statistically speaking, only a
very small proportion of CNMs do homebirths (and many can't get
hospital privileges if they do), and in 16 states direct entry
midwifery is *illegal* (and in others it is hard to find). And
that's even before we get to third party reimbursement. I'll
bet dollars to doughnuts that the majority of women in the US
do not have access to a legal homebirth provider in their state
within, say, an hour of their residence.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer writes:
: Elfanie wrote:


: Over 70 licensed and legal midwives in my state alone...and I don't
: life in one of the higher populated states...

: Now, Stephanie, you know I usually see eye to eye with
: you on many issues, but can you really say with a straight face
: that midwifery services (particularly homebirth midwifery services)
: are widely available in the US? Statistically speaking, only a
: very small proportion of CNMs do homebirths (and many can't get
: hospital privileges if they do), and in 16 states direct entry
: midwifery is *illegal* (and in others it is hard to find). And
: that's even before we get to third party reimbursement. I'll
: bet dollars to doughnuts that the majority of women in the US
: do not have access to a legal homebirth provider in their state
: within, say, an hour of their residence.

: Best wishes,
: Ericka

I agree with Ericka, Stephanie. I wish Colette were still here
to respond to you!

:-)
Larry

Pip spake thusly
Go Kiwi's Go!!!!!!!!!!!

Pip

Fellow Kiwi

P.S My Mum said the other day that they had finally come up with some
documentation that proved that pavlova was invented in Australia after all
Kiwi's please tell me this is not so!



It's not so.

You can rest easy!
--
Maggie

Unadulterated Me spake thusly
Elfanie wrote:

I disagree.

You would, pull the stick out from up your arse and get over yourself,
the US isn't the be all end all, you suck, deal with it and **** off.


ROTFLMAO!

*wipes tears from eyes*

(I apologise, I know, it's serious, but I really really needed that
laugh today)
--
Maggie

"Unadulterated Me" wrote in message
...
Elfanie wrote:

You would, pull the stick out from up your arse and get over yourself,
the US isn't the be all end all, you suck, deal with it and **** off.


LMAO. Tell us how you really feel Andrea.

Nadene