Kids and cavities

Sealing takes about 30 minutes and is totally painless. We had Chris's
sealed but not Kathleen's. Chris has the most unusual geography on his
molars, tons of pits and grooves that are very difficult to clean, even with
an explorer but Kathleen's almost perfectly smooth which can be cleaned very
well and easily. Neither have cavities either but both have braces.
Brushing is a bit more difficult now.

Also, Kathleen has never had fluoride drops (as suggested by the Chairman of
Pedo at my DH's dental school), and does have fluoridosis (tooth staining).
She was not medicated (another reason it occurs), as a baby or toddler but
she still has a few spots on her teeth. Go figure - even our dentist has no
clue.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95

"Kender" wrote in message
news:yk2gb.685561$YN5.544785@sccrnsc01...
"multimom4" wrote in message
news:TPIfb.677912$YN5.536880@sccrnsc01...
David -- Are you sure fluoride + milk doesn't promote discoloration of
the
teeth? Our ped's office has always been *very* insistent on the 2 hour
gap
(not that we followed it) because of potential grey/yellow/whatever in
the
permanent teeth?? And now our kids' permanent teeth are coming in, they
are
not terribly white which could be natural or my fault ....

--Janet
Elliot, Hanna, Connor (10/21/96)
and Holly (4/4/01)

It's not your fault. Permanent teeth are just a different color then baby
teeth. Baby teeth are very white and like glass, says our dentist. We have
three kids and no cavities. When the girls went the other day the dentist
told me that if kids don't get a cavity in their baby teeth by four years
old they probably won't get one at all (in their baby teeth). Interesting.
We have one friend who's daughter has 8 cavities and she's only 6 years
old.
Morgan is going in next month to have her 6 year molars sealed. I'll let
you
all know how it goes. Luckily it's covered by insurance.

--
Erin
Morgan and Megan 2/15/97
Evan 5/14/00

"shirley" wrote in message news:ZG2gb.694496$uu5.113747@sccrnsc04...
Sealing takes about 30 minutes and is totally painless. We had Chris's
sealed but not Kathleen's. Chris has the most unusual geography on his
molars, tons of pits and grooves that are very difficult to clean, even with
an explorer but Kathleen's almost perfectly smooth which can be cleaned very
well and easily. Neither have cavities either but both have braces.
Brushing is a bit more difficult now.

Also, Kathleen has never had fluoride drops (as suggested by the Chairman of
Pedo at my DH's dental school), and does have fluoridosis (tooth staining).
She was not medicated (another reason it occurs), as a baby or toddler but
she still has a few spots on her teeth. Go figure - even our dentist has no
clue.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95


Many common foods have high enough levels of fluoride to cause
fluorosis.
Baby chicken food, made from mechanically deboned chicken, is one -
because bone stores fluoride (as do teeth) and the mechanically
deboning process invariably gets bone dust in the finished product.
The same is for all mechanically deboned meats that make formed
products such as hot dogs, mcNuggets, vienna sausages, etc. but
chicken products show the highest amount.

Grape juices have very high levels of fluoride because of fluoride
containing pesticide residues. Juices made from skin-removed grapes
are better for kids. Many fruit juices and sodas have as much fluoride
as that of the tap water used to make it.

Tea and tuna fish are two foods with very high fluoride content. And
most all foods (in the highly fluoridated US, anyway) have some level
of fluoride.
Here's a website that lists some:

http://bruha.com/pfpc/html/f-_in_food.html

Dentist/researchers report that children who eat foods regularly with
high fluoride content can get fluorosis even if their water supply
isn't fluoridated and even if they aren't fed fluoride supplements.

Other surprising sources of fluoride are air pollution, ocean mist and
medicines.

In fact, it's virtually impossible to consume a fluoride-free diet.

New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation
http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof
http://tinyurl.com/ad9k

Fluoride Action Network
http://www.fluoridealert.org

"shirley" wrote in message news:ZG2gb.694496$uu5.113747@sccrnsc04...
Sealing takes about 30 minutes and is totally painless. We had Chris's
sealed but not Kathleen's. Chris has the most unusual geography on his
molars, tons of pits and grooves that are very difficult to clean, even with
an explorer but Kathleen's almost perfectly smooth which can be cleaned very
well and easily. Neither have cavities either but both have braces.
Brushing is a bit more difficult now.

Also, Kathleen has never had fluoride drops (as suggested by the Chairman of
Pedo at my DH's dental school), and does have fluoridosis (tooth staining).
She was not medicated (another reason it occurs), as a baby or toddler but
she still has a few spots on her teeth. Go figure - even our dentist has no
clue.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95


Many common foods have high enough levels of fluoride to cause
fluorosis.
Baby chicken food, made from mechanically deboned chicken, is one -
because bone stores fluoride (as do teeth) and the mechanically
deboning process invariably gets bone dust in the finished product.
The same is for all mechanically deboned meats that make formed
products such as hot dogs, mcNuggets, vienna sausages, etc. but
chicken products show the highest amount.

Grape juices have very high levels of fluoride because of fluoride
containing pesticide residues. Juices made from skin-removed grapes
are better for kids. Many fruit juices and sodas have as much fluoride
as that of the tap water used to make it.

Tea and tuna fish are two foods with very high fluoride content. And
most all foods (in the highly fluoridated US, anyway) have some level
of fluoride.
Here's a website that lists some:

http://bruha.com/pfpc/html/f-_in_food.html

Dentist/researchers report that children who eat foods regularly with
high fluoride content can get fluorosis even if their water supply
isn't fluoridated and even if they aren't fed fluoride supplements.

Other surprising sources of fluoride are air pollution, ocean mist and
medicines.

In fact, it's virtually impossible to consume a fluoride-free diet.

New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation
http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof
http://tinyurl.com/ad9k

Fluoride Action Network
http://www.fluoridealert.org

Janet --

I was told that the two hour rule was related to the fluoride bonding
with the calcium in the milk and being flushed from the body. My
understanding is that, as mentioned by others, discoloration is caused
by too much fluoride.

Julie

multimom4 wrote:

David -- Are you sure fluoride + milk doesn't promote discoloration of the
teeth? Our ped's office has always been *very* insistent on the 2 hour gap
(not that we followed it) because of potential grey/yellow/whatever in the
permanent teeth?? And now our kids' permanent teeth are coming in, they are
not terribly white which could be natural or my fault ....

--Janet
Elliot, Hanna, Connor (10/21/96)
and Holly (4/4/01)

"David desJardins" wrote in message
...
Julie Seely writes:
We live in a rural area and the water is not fluoridated; we have a
tiny bit of fluoride in our well water, but not much. Fluoride drops
were prescribed, but since Chris drinks milk all day, it has always
been hard to find a time to give him the fluoride, as it can't be
given within two hours of milk.

I wouldn't worry about this so much. Calcium does interfere with the
absorption of fluoride, which is why the instructions say to avoid
giving the fluoride with milk, but it's certainly much better to take
the fluoride and have its effectiveness be slightly reduced, than to not
take it at all. The combination of fluoride with milk isn't going to do
you any harm. In fact, several successful studies have shown that
fluoridated milk can be effective in preventing tooth decay, in children
not receiving fluoride from other sources.

David desJardins

Janet --

I was told that the two hour rule was related to the fluoride bonding
with the calcium in the milk and being flushed from the body. My
understanding is that, as mentioned by others, discoloration is caused
by too much fluoride.

Julie

multimom4 wrote:

David -- Are you sure fluoride + milk doesn't promote discoloration of the
teeth? Our ped's office has always been *very* insistent on the 2 hour gap
(not that we followed it) because of potential grey/yellow/whatever in the
permanent teeth?? And now our kids' permanent teeth are coming in, they are
not terribly white which could be natural or my fault ....

--Janet
Elliot, Hanna, Connor (10/21/96)
and Holly (4/4/01)

"David desJardins" wrote in message
...
Julie Seely writes:
We live in a rural area and the water is not fluoridated; we have a
tiny bit of fluoride in our well water, but not much. Fluoride drops
were prescribed, but since Chris drinks milk all day, it has always
been hard to find a time to give him the fluoride, as it can't be
given within two hours of milk.

I wouldn't worry about this so much. Calcium does interfere with the
absorption of fluoride, which is why the instructions say to avoid
giving the fluoride with milk, but it's certainly much better to take
the fluoride and have its effectiveness be slightly reduced, than to not
take it at all. The combination of fluoride with milk isn't going to do
you any harm. In fact, several successful studies have shown that
fluoridated milk can be effective in preventing tooth decay, in children
not receiving fluoride from other sources.

David desJardins

Shirley --

I wanted to thank you earlier for your informative reply, but our news
server has been down since Friday. So belatedly, thank you! I feel
much better now about having the inevitable done.

Julie

shirley wrote:

My DH said "a puplotomy is done only on a tooth that is vital or almost
vital, once they are necrotic (abscessed) that procedure doesn't work."

Hope this helps.

Shirley

"shirley" wrote in message
news:UFKeb.476623$Oz4.307762@rwcrnsc54...
Julie, I'll ask my DH about your question. I know a lot of the peripheral
things about dentistry but the very specifics (pulp vs. extraction) is his
domain. He's teaching tonight so I'll grab him tomorrow afternoon to get
your question answered.

Shirley

"Julie Seely" wrote in message
...
Thanks Shirley (and Stephanie) --

The kids brush themselves now, though I may start doing it for them once
a day again. It is definitely one of those hindsight is 20/20 things.
That said, Erica's teeth are (knock on wood) fine.

The dentist said that after the back tooth is extracted, they would put
a "spacer" (?) in so that the teeth wouldn't shift.

And yes, I *definitely* plan on having their teeth sealed. Chris'
6-year molars are in, but not quite all of the way yet.

We live in a rural area and the water is not fluoridated; we have a tiny
bit of fluoride in our well water, but not much. Fluoride drops were
prescribed, but since Chris drinks milk all day, it has always been hard
to find a time to give him the fluoride, as it can't be given within two
hours of milk.

I guess my major question then would be whether a tooth that has
abscessed could be "saved" via pulpotomy. Is the pulpotomy more
traumatic than extraction? It seems to me that he's going to have seven
years of careful eating, what with missing a tooth on one side, and that
having something -- anything -- there would be preferable. Yes? No?
Anyone out there with experience?

Julie


shirley wrote:

You can't do root canal on kids teeth, they call it a pulpotomy (sp?).
It's
scrapping the pulp out of the tooth but extraction is only due usually
to
the abscess. Yes, you need the tooth for the adult teeth to follow
behind
but it also needs to be there because of the spacing issue. If it's
the
last tooth, I would not worry now. As far as the cavities, does the
child
brush himself or do you do it for him. My DH is a retired dentist and
professor of dentistry (25 years of teaching/practicing), I was an
assistant
and my twins have braces. We still brush their teeth (at 8.5). We
have
electric brushes, expensive and cheap, they floss and neither have
cavities.
Each dentist I've worked for (also worked at Northwestern Dental
School
for
5 years), have given advice to parents that you don't let them brush
UNTIL
you are ready to pay for the dental work. Brush, brush, brush. Limit
the
gooey stuff, raisins, white bread, and other stuff. Cavities grow in
a
triangle form. By the time you see it, it's already huge under the
pinhole
that is seen. So even a pin point needs care, and every 6 months is a
must
for kids especially. That way they can get the cavities under control
before they get abscessed. Also sealents and fluoride treatments are
great
(I know there are those of you who are anti fluoride but seal the
teeth
with
the plastic covers that are offered on the back teeth and you will
save
a
huge amount of time and money). Anyhow, it sounds as if your dentist
is
on
the right track.

Good luck and happy brushing.

Shirley

"GandSBrock" wrote in message
...
We haven't had our first dentist appointment yet! Yikes. It's
coming
up
this
month. So I don't have any words of wisdom. But I do know with
adults
dentists "watch" spots on your teeth. I guess they wait for them to
become
full blown cavities, I don't know.

I would question the extraction, just because don't you need the
baby
teeth in
place to keep everything aligned for the adult teeth to come in the
right
way?
But I also think a root canal is pretty drastic, I'm sure the
extraction
would
be easier. I would ask him about the consequences of that tooth
being
absent.

Stephanie
Jake and Ryan 9/3/99

Shirley --

I wanted to thank you earlier for your informative reply, but our news
server has been down since Friday. So belatedly, thank you! I feel
much better now about having the inevitable done.

Julie

shirley wrote:

My DH said "a puplotomy is done only on a tooth that is vital or almost
vital, once they are necrotic (abscessed) that procedure doesn't work."

Hope this helps.

Shirley

"shirley" wrote in message
news:UFKeb.476623$Oz4.307762@rwcrnsc54...
Julie, I'll ask my DH about your question. I know a lot of the peripheral
things about dentistry but the very specifics (pulp vs. extraction) is his
domain. He's teaching tonight so I'll grab him tomorrow afternoon to get
your question answered.

Shirley

"Julie Seely" wrote in message
...
Thanks Shirley (and Stephanie) --

The kids brush themselves now, though I may start doing it for them once
a day again. It is definitely one of those hindsight is 20/20 things.
That said, Erica's teeth are (knock on wood) fine.

The dentist said that after the back tooth is extracted, they would put
a "spacer" (?) in so that the teeth wouldn't shift.

And yes, I *definitely* plan on having their teeth sealed. Chris'
6-year molars are in, but not quite all of the way yet.

We live in a rural area and the water is not fluoridated; we have a tiny
bit of fluoride in our well water, but not much. Fluoride drops were
prescribed, but since Chris drinks milk all day, it has always been hard
to find a time to give him the fluoride, as it can't be given within two
hours of milk.

I guess my major question then would be whether a tooth that has
abscessed could be "saved" via pulpotomy. Is the pulpotomy more
traumatic than extraction? It seems to me that he's going to have seven
years of careful eating, what with missing a tooth on one side, and that
having something -- anything -- there would be preferable. Yes? No?
Anyone out there with experience?

Julie


shirley wrote:

You can't do root canal on kids teeth, they call it a pulpotomy (sp?).
It's
scrapping the pulp out of the tooth but extraction is only due usually
to
the abscess. Yes, you need the tooth for the adult teeth to follow
behind
but it also needs to be there because of the spacing issue. If it's
the
last tooth, I would not worry now. As far as the cavities, does the
child
brush himself or do you do it for him. My DH is a retired dentist and
professor of dentistry (25 years of teaching/practicing), I was an
assistant
and my twins have braces. We still brush their teeth (at 8.5). We
have
electric brushes, expensive and cheap, they floss and neither have
cavities.
Each dentist I've worked for (also worked at Northwestern Dental
School
for
5 years), have given advice to parents that you don't let them brush
UNTIL
you are ready to pay for the dental work. Brush, brush, brush. Limit
the
gooey stuff, raisins, white bread, and other stuff. Cavities grow in
a
triangle form. By the time you see it, it's already huge under the
pinhole
that is seen. So even a pin point needs care, and every 6 months is a
must
for kids especially. That way they can get the cavities under control
before they get abscessed. Also sealents and fluoride treatments are
great
(I know there are those of you who are anti fluoride but seal the
teeth
with
the plastic covers that are offered on the back teeth and you will
save
a
huge amount of time and money). Anyhow, it sounds as if your dentist
is
on
the right track.

Good luck and happy brushing.

Shirley

"GandSBrock" wrote in message
...
We haven't had our first dentist appointment yet! Yikes. It's
coming
up
this
month. So I don't have any words of wisdom. But I do know with
adults
dentists "watch" spots on your teeth. I guess they wait for them to
become
full blown cavities, I don't know.

I would question the extraction, just because don't you need the
baby
teeth in
place to keep everything aligned for the adult teeth to come in the
right
way?
But I also think a root canal is pretty drastic, I'm sure the
extraction
would
be easier. I would ask him about the consequences of that tooth
being
absent.

Stephanie
Jake and Ryan 9/3/99

"David desJardins" wrote in message
...
Janet writes:
David -- Are you sure fluoride + milk doesn't promote discoloration of
the teeth? Our ped's office has always been *very* insistent on the 2
hour gap (not that we followed it) because of potential
grey/yellow/whatever in the permanent teeth??

I've never heard any such thing, and I can't find any mention of it on
the web. So I'm doubtful. Do they have any reference to this supposed
effect?

I never asked -- the leaflet in the box says 2 hours and they told me it was
for color and absorption, so I left it at that.

Personally I don't see the
big deal: you can chew just as well, whatever color your teeth are.
Some people are extremely vain, though.

I don't really think it's vain to wish my kids' teeth to be as pretty as
they can be. I'm not talking minor discolor -- the change from the color of
their baby teeth is *huge* so I was wondering if ongoing mega discoloration
with all the teeth is likely. It's the same as when I cut Holly's head open
right by her eye and I spent a day tracking down a plastic surgeon rather
than risking a scar by having one of the peds. do it. The peds. told me
there was no guarantee they could do a good job because of the way the cut
ran / depth /etc and as she's a girl the time seemed well spent (and was,
since she now has no scar whatsoever). Similarly, I've worked very hard on
brushing etc and it's a shame if it's all gonna go to waste because we
couldn't always get 2 hours away from milk. So I was just curious.

--Janet
Elliot, Hanna, Connor (10/21/96)
and Holly (4/4/01)

"David desJardins" wrote in message
...
Janet writes:
David -- Are you sure fluoride + milk doesn't promote discoloration of
the teeth? Our ped's office has always been *very* insistent on the 2
hour gap (not that we followed it) because of potential
grey/yellow/whatever in the permanent teeth??

I've never heard any such thing, and I can't find any mention of it on
the web. So I'm doubtful. Do they have any reference to this supposed
effect?

I never asked -- the leaflet in the box says 2 hours and they told me it was
for color and absorption, so I left it at that.

Personally I don't see the
big deal: you can chew just as well, whatever color your teeth are.
Some people are extremely vain, though.

I don't really think it's vain to wish my kids' teeth to be as pretty as
they can be. I'm not talking minor discolor -- the change from the color of
their baby teeth is *huge* so I was wondering if ongoing mega discoloration
with all the teeth is likely. It's the same as when I cut Holly's head open
right by her eye and I spent a day tracking down a plastic surgeon rather
than risking a scar by having one of the peds. do it. The peds. told me
there was no guarantee they could do a good job because of the way the cut
ran / depth /etc and as she's a girl the time seemed well spent (and was,
since she now has no scar whatsoever). Similarly, I've worked very hard on
brushing etc and it's a shame if it's all gonna go to waste because we
couldn't always get 2 hours away from milk. So I was just curious.

--Janet
Elliot, Hanna, Connor (10/21/96)
and Holly (4/4/01)

Thanks Julie -- as Erin said, the dentist told me that there is almost
always a major color difference between baby and permanent teeth. But it's
nice to know that it's not my fault.

crossing Mommy Guilt #4,627 off my list
--Janet
Elliot, Hanna, Connor (10/21/96)
and Holly (4/4/01)

"Julie Seely" wrote in message
...
Janet --

I was told that the two hour rule was related to the fluoride bonding
with the calcium in the milk and being flushed from the body. My
understanding is that, as mentioned by others, discoloration is caused
by too much fluoride.

Julie

multimom4 wrote:

David -- Are you sure fluoride + milk doesn't promote discoloration of
the
teeth? Our ped's office has always been *very* insistent on the 2 hour
gap
(not that we followed it) because of potential grey/yellow/whatever in
the
permanent teeth?? And now our kids' permanent teeth are coming in, they
are
not terribly white which could be natural or my fault ....

--Janet
Elliot, Hanna, Connor (10/21/96)
and Holly (4/4/01)

"David desJardins" wrote in message
...
Julie Seely writes:
We live in a rural area and the water is not fluoridated; we have a
tiny bit of fluoride in our well water, but not much. Fluoride
drops
were prescribed, but since Chris drinks milk all day, it has always
been hard to find a time to give him the fluoride, as it can't be
given within two hours of milk.

I wouldn't worry about this so much. Calcium does interfere with the
absorption of fluoride, which is why the instructions say to avoid
giving the fluoride with milk, but it's certainly much better to take
the fluoride and have its effectiveness be slightly reduced, than to
not
take it at all. The combination of fluoride with milk isn't going to
do
you any harm. In fact, several successful studies have shown that
fluoridated milk can be effective in preventing tooth decay, in
children
not receiving fluoride from other sources.

David desJardins