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  #21  
Old July 9th 04, 06:11 PM
Ericka Kammerer
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Default Sad story

Donna Metler wrote:

There are SO many people out there advocating for VBAC, non-interventionist
childbirth, home birth, etc, that it would be easy to convince yourself that
the doctors are wrong if they tell you that they expect complications. After
all, having babies is easy, millions of women do it, right? And if that's
what you want, it's easy to convince yourself of that.


There's some of that, but I think that the medical
folks have to take some of that blame as well for crying wolf
all this time. When you claim all sorts of things that are
demonstrably untrue, you're practically begging people not
to believe you when what you're saying *is* true.

I would dispute that there are SO many people out
there advocating for low intervention birth. There are
many here, but in real life, I find they're few and far
between. There are far more people willing to tell me
I'm crackers for wanting to avoid an epidural than there
are people willing to tell women choosing high intervention
births that they should rethink their plans. I suspect
Angela may have the right of it--that something about her
previous c-section experience and sequelae made her bound
and determined not to have that experience again, even
if it meant taking risks others would see as foolish.
(Not that that's rational, but her experience may have
been such that she was not capable of rational thought
about this particular issue.)

Also, when it comes to at least frank breeches,
with an experienced caregiver, the additional risk of a
vaginal delivery is *very* small. The problem now is that
there are very few caregivers experienced in vaginal breech
births, and there are many ways to do the wrong thing and
make the situation far more risky. So, what was once only
a mild additional risk has become a significant additional
risk through loss of knowledge and experience. It also
provides an opportunity for confusion, because there are
several studies done that show little increased risk--but
they were done before that knowledge became so much more
scarce.

I pity her-because now not only will she have to deal with the guilt and
pain of a loss, but realize that there's a good chance that her choices
caused it. And that's a pain I would hate to see anyone go through.


Absolutely.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #22  
Old July 9th 04, 06:13 PM
ChocolateTruffles
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Zaz wrote:

Why doesn't it surprise you?


Sooke is well-known to have people of a different character residing there.

--
Brigitte aa #2145
http://ca.geocities.com/bironmonger/
Please excuse the quality. It is under construction and I am still
learning. :-)

"To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge it,
requires brains."
~ Mary Pettibone Poole

  #23  
Old July 9th 04, 08:06 PM
Jenny D
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Why would you be concerned Jean? Are there any poster here who have failed
to listen to EVERY midwife they spoke to and then hired one illegally to
give birth at home to a breached baby?



Oh of course... if there are regular posters here who have lost a child at
birth, for sure ((((MEGA HUGS))).



God bless you, I am sure you did everything you could in your power to
prevent it because you love your baby more than life itself. and please
don't be offended by my opinion of that woman because you cannot begin to
imagine how much I do not consider you in any way to be like her.



I dunno.. if I had lost Tommy at birth, I would be devasted and hearing
about this woman and how she did nothing to prevent it would make me even
more upset at her.




"Iuil" wrote in message
...



"Jenny D" wrote
She killed her child; she's a murderer.


I really hope that some of our regular posters aren't reading this. If

you
are, then (((((mega-hugs)))).

Jean




  #24  
Old July 9th 04, 08:40 PM
Jenny D
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"This is a terrible accusation, and the religious tidbit in now way
diminishes it: would murder for a god be less a murder?"

I agree. Some religions don't allow blood tranfusion or organ transplants.
I think it's wrong but if it's their religion, what can we do about it? I'm
not saying a religious reason makes it right, I'm just saying it may help us
to undertand her logic. (or lack there of) but certainly, I totally agree
with you... it is not right no matter what the excuse. Perhaps I should have
phrased that psrt better.

"I realize you are an extreme person who stands by her views, but this was
not a murder, it was an accident, which could also have happened in a
hospital."

I agree with you again. And if she would have gone to the hospital, I bet
that baby would have lived. Yes, of course, it may still have died in
hospital but at least she would have done all that she could for him/her.

"That woman might have lacked some judgement, but the people around her did
too, and she is not to be blamed."

What do you mean by the people around her? The only person responsible for
her birthing is herself. The mother has full responsibility.


"I sincerely hope nothing ever happens to you or your loved ones following a
decision you might have made thinking it was the right one."

If I CHOSE not to buckle my child in the minivan and he died in a vehicle
accident, I would be a stupid woman... I would be a murderer but if I fogot
because I was holding 5 bags in one hand and a screaming nephew in another,
then it would be a mistake... a horrible, regretable mistake. She did not
make a mistake, she made a choice.

How in the world could she think she was making the right decision. What
era does she think we live it? It's the 21st centure and despite how
"natural" you want to be, you cannot ignore the doctores and dozens of
qualified midwives. She had to have been mentally retarted.




  #25  
Old July 9th 04, 09:37 PM
Iuil
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Default Sad story


"Jenny D" wrote
Why would you be concerned Jean? Are there any poster here who have

failed
to listen to EVERY midwife they spoke to and then hired one illegally to
give birth at home to a breached baby?



You don't know the whole story. You are going on a post that came from
someone who doesn't know the whole story. This is called hearsay and is
disallowed in courts of law for very good reason - the story gets distorted.
The fact that the midwife was not registered does not mean that she was
unqualified and/or unexperienced.


Oh of course... if there are regular posters here who have lost a child at
birth, for sure ((((MEGA HUGS))).


That is why. One of whom is a very good personal friend of mine and has had
to endure comments like that from people who judge without knowing the full
story.



I dunno.. if I had lost Tommy at birth, I would be devasted and hearing
about this woman and how she did nothing to prevent it would make me even
more upset at her.


Again, how do you *know* she did nothing to prevent it? Complications arise
during labour and birth for many reasons. A breech birth can be safer than
a managed delivery or a scheduled c/s, both of which have their own inherent
risks.

Jean


  #26  
Old July 9th 04, 09:51 PM
Buzzy Bee
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On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 08:50:37 -0400, "Jenny D"
wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!
She killed her child; she's a murderer.


You ****ing bitch.

Megan
--
Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset (homebirth)

To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com
  #27  
Old July 9th 04, 09:54 PM
Buzzy Bee
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Default Sad story

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 15:40:38 -0400, "Jenny D"
wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!
I agree with you again. And if she would have gone to the hospital, I bet
that baby would have lived. Yes, of course, it may still have died in
hospital but at least she would have done all that she could for him/her.


I cannot believe you are saying that. You have no idea to know
whether it is true or not. It may well be completely untrue. Not all
babies would survive if only they were born in hospital. In fact
hospital protocols *kill* babies every now and then. Some babies are
safer at born at home.

Megan
--
Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset (homebirth)

To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com
  #28  
Old July 9th 04, 09:58 PM
Jamie Clark
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Default Sad story

"Jenny D" wrote in message
.. .
How in the world could she think she was making the right decision. What
era does she think we live it? It's the 21st centure and despite how
"natural" you want to be, you cannot ignore the doctores and dozens of
qualified midwives. She had to have been mentally retarted.


Or severely traumatized.

There are a couple women on this board who have had very upsetting
traumatizing hospital births, or sexual abuse issues in their past, and are
pretty clear and adamant that they will home birth their next babies, and
some may even want an unassisted home birth. They have real reasons for
this, some emotional, some physical, and some both. It wouldn't be my
choice, but it is theirs. Now, if more than one doctor told them that they
strongly advised against it for the health of their baby, I don't know that
would change their minds. I'd be interested in hearing what they have to
say, if they are around, and what circumstances might make them change their
stance on homebirth, assisted or not. As other people have said, in our
culture that is so pro-hospital, so interventionist, and pro-c-section, and
so adamantly against home births, it's hard to believe a doctor who says
that your baby's health may be in danger.

We don't know all of the reason's why the woman in Canada was set on having
a home birth, and we don't know all of the circumstances.

I'm very sorry for her loss.
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6


  #29  
Old July 9th 04, 10:02 PM
Jamie Clark
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Default Sad story

"Iuil" wrote in message
...

"Jenny D" wrote
She killed her child; she's a murderer.


I really hope that some of our regular posters aren't reading this. If

you
are, then (((((mega-hugs)))).


"Jenny D" wrote in message
.. .
Why would you be concerned Jean? Are there any poster here who have

failed
to listen to EVERY midwife they spoke to and then hired one illegally to
give birth at home to a breached baby?


Because there are people on this group, like me, who have terminated a much
wanted pregnancy due to various physical or genetic abnormalities. Because
there are people on this group who had abortions when they were younger.
Because there are people on this group whose babies died during or after
birth.
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6



  #30  
Old July 9th 04, 10:04 PM
Carol Ann
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Default Sad story

: Sadly the baby had major complications during delivery and passed away.
: How
: sad.
:
: Sad and so unnecessary. Unfortunately, it's these types of stories that
: people remember and think of when they hear the words homebirth and
midwife.
:
:
: JennP.

I confess to being one of those women. I would NEVER consider homebirth.


~Carol Ann
Mom to Morgan 3.24.04
http://tinyurl.com/2l78p Pictures


 




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