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#371
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pregnant 17 year old
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:24:28 -0400, Ericka Kammerer
wrote: Circe wrote: I've pretty well lost any remaining patience or interest I had in responding to Chris. If he IS for real, nothing anyone can say to him is going to help him because he has no interest in being helped. And if he's not for real, arguing with him is a singular waste of time and bandwidth. sigh Too true. Guess it's time ;-) Even my optimism is wearing thin. I must say I'm impressed you and Barbara stuck it out! Nan -- October is National Breast Cancer Awareness Month... Please help fund Mammograms for underprivileged women clicking here (no cost to you):http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/ |
#372
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pregnant 17 year old
Okay, it's official. This horse is dead. Let's all stop beating it, shall
we? : ) -- Jamie Earth Angels: Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03 -- My Big Girl, who started preschool, and loved it! Addison Grace, 9/30/04 -- My Little Walker, who wants nothing more than to go explore the world! Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1, Password: Guest Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and Password "Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message ... Circe wrote: I've pretty well lost any remaining patience or interest I had in responding to Chris. If he IS for real, nothing anyone can say to him is going to help him because he has no interest in being helped. And if he's not for real, arguing with him is a singular waste of time and bandwidth. sigh Too true. Guess it's time ;-) Even my optimism is wearing thin. Best wishes, Ericka |
#373
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pregnant 17 year old
"Banty" wrote and I snipped:
He is now over at alt.support.step-parents. Stomping around trying to give advice, of course, not quite seeking it. If it's at my suggestion, either I've created a monster, or they'll straighten him right out. My bet: he'll either get straightened out or eventually leave there. I suggested a.s.s-p as well. I suspect that even with their normally hands-off-by-step-parents mode, they'll attempt to get him to consider more responsibility than it seems he's taken. I hope he listens, for everyone's sake. -Patty, mom of 1+2 |
#374
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pregnant 17 year old
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:30:57 -0400, "PattyMomVA"
wrote: "Banty" wrote and I snipped: He is now over at alt.support.step-parents. Stomping around trying to give advice, of course, not quite seeking it. If it's at my suggestion, either I've created a monster, or they'll straighten him right out. My bet: he'll either get straightened out or eventually leave there. I suggested a.s.s-p as well. I suspect that even with their normally hands-off-by-step-parents mode, they'll attempt to get him to consider more responsibility than it seems he's taken. I hope he listens, for everyone's sake. So do I, but he's not even remotely interested in being a step-parent... Nan -- October is National Breast Cancer Awareness Month... Please help fund Mammograms for underprivileged women clicking here (no cost to you):http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/ |
#375
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pregnant 17 year old
Nan writes:
: I must say I'm impressed you and Barbara stuck it out! Uh. Impressed is not exactly the first word that jumps into my mind. ;-) Larry |
#376
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pregnant 17 year old
wrote in message ...
Nan writes: : I must say I'm impressed you and Barbara stuck it out! Uh. Impressed is not exactly the first word that jumps into my mind. Aw, c'mon Larry, tell us what you REALLY think g... Seriously, I took the bait for a LOT longer than I should have, and I'm not sure my fellow mkp'ers appreciated it. But it WAS fun for a while there. My apologies. I shouldn't have fun at the expense of fouling up my fellow posters' newsgroup... -- Be well, Barbara |
#377
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pregnant 17 year old
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:21:59 -0700, "Circe" wrote:
wrote in message ... Nan writes: : I must say I'm impressed you and Barbara stuck it out! Uh. Impressed is not exactly the first word that jumps into my mind. Aw, c'mon Larry, tell us what you REALLY think g... Seriously, I took the bait for a LOT longer than I should have, and I'm not sure my fellow mkp'ers appreciated it. But it WAS fun for a while there. My apologies. I shouldn't have fun at the expense of fouling up my fellow posters' newsgroup... Pfft. Everyone had the choice to read, or deep-six the thread. I chose to read and enjoyed it ;-) Nan -- October is National Breast Cancer Awareness Month... Please help fund Mammograms for underprivileged women clicking here (no cost to you):http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/ |
#378
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pregnant 17 year old
"alath" wrote in message ups.com... It's fairly likely that his wife, having given up after long dealing with the kind of intransigence and defensiveness that we're dealing with, is going about the situation in her way unilaterally. I wonder what the wife is like. Chris has shown his true colors here, quite clearly. Maybe the wife has no grasp or concept of adult relationships either - it would go a long way towards explaining her choice of a husband. Either way, the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Even one "partner" like Chris in a marriage would spell its doom. Chris doesn't divorce. I keep wondering if he's a troll. It is hard to believe anyone could be so freaking dense, and so incredibly persistent with strategies that are obviously not working. He's like the guy who keeps beating his own head with a hammer while complaining about why his headache won't go away. And he's not about to listen to any suggestion that he might consider putting down the hammer. I suppose there might really be people out there like him, but not likely outside of institutional settings. Then again, since he knows it all and obviously has no intention of reconsidering his actions or listening to anyone else's suggestions, it kind of begs the question why he posted on the usenet to begin with, other than to stir up conflict. And that, by definition, would make him a troll. Ad hominem. |
#379
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pregnant 17 year old
"Circe" wrote in message news:OcR4f.2172$UF4.855@fed1read02... "Chris" wrote in message news:0_Q4f.2171$UF4.1470@fed1read02... "alath" wrote in message oups.com... All the other 20 or 30 people who have posted here challenging your positions are obviously idiots who can't possibly manage their marriages or relationships with kids and/or stepchildren. That's why our families are all so messed up, and yours is so ideal. Gosh, Chris, please tell us more so we can all aspire to be like you. Like I said, it aint' me crying the big "D" word on a regular basis (in fact I have never used it). But I suppose divorce UNmesses up a family. Frankly, Chris, sometimes divorce is the best option for families. Irresponsible remarks such as the one above is reason enough to discount ANY marital advice from you. Is it the best option for you and your wife? None of us can tell you that. All we can tell you is that if your wife is talking about divorce on a regular basis, it's hardly likely that it's because your relationship with your wife is ideal. What a novel concept. -- Be well, Barbara |
#380
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pregnant 17 year old
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message ... Chris wrote: "Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message news It's a two way street. Clearly, not only are others (including your wife) not experiencing a conversion to your way of thinking as a result of your utterances, but you are not choosing to "hear" what others have to say to you, or give it any significant consideration. It may well be that your wife understands what you're saying quite clearly and simply doesn't agree. Part of communication in a relationship involves *listening* and *negotiating*, not just declaiming. Agreed, and it would be nice if my wife did that. And it would be nice if *you* did as well, because it will take both of you doing it before things are going to work out for you. I said no such thing. I said that you haven't stepped up to the plate and even done the *mininimal* amount of work that I think is appropriate to effectively address this situation. Not only that, but it's incredibly disingenuous to say that it's all about *either* helping your daughter *or* saving your marriage, when your ineffectiveness and lack of effort is likely *both* hurting your daughter *and* harming your marriage. I think you should have placed your marriage and wife first *by* finding effective help for your daughter. Not when her daughter is the one assaulting the sanctity of our home. I don't give a rip WHO it is attacking my wife/marriage/home. I will do what's necessary to stop the threat. And if that means stopping her own child, so be it! Did I just offend you? No, you dodged the issue. So, since your attitude is also likely a threat to your marriage, are you doing what's necessary to stop that threat as well? Complex question. My attitude is NOT a threat to my marriage. Furthermore, I don't buy that it's your daughter assaulting your marriage. She would love nothing more than for her mother to leave me, and she is doing everything she can to encourage it. Not a threat? While dealing with these difficult family problems is a stress on a marriage, what spells success or failure isn't the external stress, it's how the partners *deal* with the stress. *Neither* you *nor* your wife are dealing effectively with the stress--and *that's* the problem. How does one "effectively" make a horse drink? You can attempt to externalize the issue if you like, but it will only delay the possibility of an effective solution. Care to tell me what would have been improper about getting your daughter into a residential program designed to deal with her issues BEFORE there was a baby to deal with? It was important then. It's even more appointment now, and you keep on frittering time away. Eventually, you will have frittered all your time away and you really won't have much left in the way of options that actually give your daughter a fighting chance. But apparently that doesn't bother you. Have you forgotten that her mother is the one who calls the shots (regarding her daughter), or were you never aware of that? Oh, I'm sorry, I must have misheard that part about you two being "one flesh" and all that jazz. Whatever does THAT have to do with her choice of behavior? It has to do with *YOUR* choice of behavior. It's very simple in my book. Your wife, at the very least, has moral, legal, and ethical responsibilities to her daughter (not to mention those pesky obligations that come from familial love and duty). If you are "one flesh" with her, then you assume those obligations right along with her. No I don't. Well, obviously. Hence my assertion that you don't take the whole "one flesh" thing very seriously. I suppose that I ougtht to do the time if she commits a crime too. But you don't choose to do that. You choose to be "one flesh" with your wife, except for those pesky bits that are inconvenient to you. Clearly, you lack understanding of the concept. I would suggest you're the one lacking in understanding. Enlighten me. Well, you're surely not treating her as your wife ought to be treated as far as I'm concerned. I know, because your idea of how to "treat" a wife is to simply heed to her foolish ways while she destroys her daughter, her marriage, and herself. I never said that. I challenge you to find *ONE* *SINGLE* example where I said that. Go ahead. I'll wait... Didn't say that you "said" it, did I? have you ever researched and presented your wife with a viable option along these lines? No? Well, then, how do you know that she would have refused it? And, of course, you elect not to answer the most pertinent question... You answered it for me. Still dodging, eh? To what purpose would I answer a question which you already answered? If you are standing by your claim that you're not part of the problem and have no responsibility for the solution, get out there are defend your position. The burden of communication rests with the sender. Nope, my friend, it's a two way street, as any basic linguistics text will explain. Sorry, unlike MANY others (here) I do not read minds. In order to to send your message, you have to speak in the language of the recipient. And the recipient has to be trying to understand and work with the sender. Without that, effective communication is not possible. You are all for sending, but not so interested in receiving. Excercising your mind reading skills again. No, you've effectively said so. You've said you don't really care about anything except doing "what's proper," which, of course, in your mind is only the particular course that you've already decided upon. Tell me, have you utilized your amazing mind reading ability to amass millions of dollars from business deals? With a skill like that, it would be a piece of cake to gain such riches. Your only expressed goal so far has been to get your wife to agree to your position. Correction: My expressed goal is to stop the disruption to our home and our marriage. No, it consists of you and your wife working together to negotiate your way to effective solutions. She won't work with me. She is insistent on the same old methods. What's the saying? "If you continue doing what you did, then you will continue getting what you got". Frankly, I aint' interested in continuing to get what she got! Did it ever occur to you that your rigidity might have something to do with encouraging her defensiveness and rigidity in response? Where have you tried to find solutions that will take steps in the right direction that will satisfy *both* your criteria? I can't even answer your question. Who knows what you mean by "*both* your criteria". I haven't heard your wife's side to have any idea of what she's willing (or not) to do, but it's quite clear to me that *you* have no interest in doing anything outside of a very narrow range of things you've arbitrarily and unilaterally defined as "proper." That's not leadership, nor is it conducive to an effective marriage partnership. In fact, it's quite destructive in a marriage. Uhuh, and that's precisely how many people have gotten into trouble, by heeding to the advice of "have an open mind". There ya go. Hate to tell you, but you've already *got* trouble with your approach. How 'bout you consider the possibility that just maybe your approach isn't working so well and just maybe something different might work? Oh, I forget. It's not "proper." Well, I suspect you'll be good and "proper" with a failed marriage. No problem, so long as I behave correctly. Marriage is a priority, but it does not trump doing what I ought to do. It's apparent that we both live by two different ethical standards. You just aren't interested if it isn't on your terms. You've already decided what you're willing to do and what you're not willing to do, and you aren't interested in compromise or understanding anyone else's position (including your wife's) or in inconveniencing yourself for the betterment of others (including your wife or your marriage) unless it conforms to your rigid notions of what you will or will not do. Sounds like my wife. Guess you're a match made in heaven, eh? Not even close. Perhaps on the "compromise" part. But then again, I will NEVER compromise on what I know to be correct and just. Would you? I wouldn't be so self-righteous as to presume that I, and only I, have all the right answers and no one else, including my spouse, has valid thoughts and feelings that need to be heard, understood, and worked with. But maybe I'm just not as perfect as you, though here I was thinking that my marriage and family were humming along quite nicely, thank you very much. Thank you for your opinion. If I am responsible for her responsibilities, then that makes her incompetent. She's a minor, fer cryin' out loud My wife. Oh, you're still denying the "one flesh" thing. With all due respect, your response doesn't follow. I still think that's a pile of BS. My husband and I are in our lives together. I rather like it that way. If my husband has responsibilities in his life, then it is my responsibility to enable him to meet his responsibilities in any way that I can, not to tell him I don't give a rip and he'd better choose between meeting his responsibilities and making me happy. My marriage isn't going to be successful unless I *HELP* him meet his responsibilities (and yours isn't either). Tell that to my wife who isn't helping me meet my responsibilities of protecting our marriage and home. Pot, meet kettle. You can whine about her behavior all you like, Not me that's whining.... it's YOU. Oh, puhleeze. What is whining if not all this "it's not my fault," "she did it first," "I couldn't do anything different." Those are my quotes? Classic whining behavior mastered by any self-respecting preschooler. It's just that most don't get away with it and move on to better strategies (hopefully before they move out and get married). Why would this be inconsistent with what I said above? It doesn't surprise me in the least that your wife would be upset at your rigidity and autocracy and wouldn't be thrilled with continuing to live that way and would question whether doing so was consistent with her responsibilities to her daughter. Tell you what. That activity has come to a dead stop no.! [Above typo: should read "dead stop now"] If my wife believes that her being here is inconsistent with her responsibilies to her daughter, then she is welcome to leave, take her daughter with her, and once again enjoy such lifestyle. It just aint' gonna happen here! Betcha within a few years' time, that's exactly what will have happened. And you'll get to lather, rinse, and repeat with your next partner, since apparently you won't have learned any lessons from the first go 'round. No problem lathering with the shampoo of righteousness. Best wishes, Ericka |
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