looking for other perspectives (very long)

dragonlady wrote

Poly isn't always more than one family. Sometimes, it's one family, and
each partner may have additional relationships -- but not with children.

Sometimes it's a small group -- like a marriage of 3 or 4 people instead
of 2.

And, when you think about it, you're capable of loving more than one
child; why not more than one partner?

I've wondered about this. Not about the capacity to love more than one
adult; that can, I'm sure, happen. I would doubt if you could love
them all equally, but that again is beside the point.

My question would just be one of time and focus. A normal adult life
-- especially for a woman with kids -- is very busy. When you take
time out of it, it's in unplanned snatches, or in blocks, like
vacation time. I'm assuming that polyamory would require more than
that. So how does it work? It becomes a third job, after work and
family? Or it is restricted to planned time slots?

I suppose there are as many solutions as there are people in the
lifestyle.

Rupa

"Bill in Co." wrote

Hell, if you weigh 500 lbs, you are "entitled" to take up two seats,
right? - after all, it wasn't your fault, was it? Personal responsibility?
Don't need it anymore! Our "illustrious" legal system will "protect you",
as an "innocent little lamb VICTIM"! And, with a little luck, you'll even
get to collect $50,000 as you pass GO (along with a few of our prevalently
ethical attorneys, of course). (/sarcasm off)


Frankly, if you weigh 500 lbs, however you got there (and I would
think there is likely to be some underlying organic factor), you have
so many other problems that I can't see grudging you two seats.

Rupa

In article ,
(Rupa Bose) wrote:

dragonlady wrote

Poly isn't always more than one family. Sometimes, it's one family, and
each partner may have additional relationships -- but not with children.

Sometimes it's a small group -- like a marriage of 3 or 4 people instead
of 2.

And, when you think about it, you're capable of loving more than one
child; why not more than one partner?

I've wondered about this. Not about the capacity to love more than one
adult; that can, I'm sure, happen. I would doubt if you could love
them all equally, but that again is beside the point.

My question would just be one of time and focus. A normal adult life
-- especially for a woman with kids -- is very busy. When you take
time out of it, it's in unplanned snatches, or in blocks, like
vacation time. I'm assuming that polyamory would require more than
that. So how does it work? It becomes a third job, after work and
family? Or it is restricted to planned time slots?

I suppose there are as many solutions as there are people in the
lifestyle.

Rupa

Undoubtedly many solutions. However, from what I've read, at least in
the group-marriage approaches, since there are more adults to do the
various "jobs" there is also more free time to spend with the kids and
with each other.

When I've read older autobiographies of women in traditional polygamous
marriages, they often write favorably about their sister/wives, and the
joy they take in those relationships. Whatever you might think about
the philosophy/theology behind that particular approach to polyamory --
in which men "owned" many wives, but women could only have one husband
-- it has given me an appreciation for what a life in a household with
more than two adults who care for each other might be like.

And, to go back to the original analogy -- if you have more than one
child, you manage to make time for all of them. Why not more than one
husband?

(Personally, I'm less sold on the "open marriage" approach to polyamory,
especially if it requires one person to split their time between two
"primary" relationships and two households -- but it apparently works
for some folks.)

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article , "Tai"
wrote:

dragonlady wrote:
In article , "Tai"
wrote:

I just don't understand how anyone has the time to run two romantic
relationships, let alone two familes! It sounds like skimping for
all, to me.

Tai




Poly isn't always more than one family. Sometimes, it's one family,
and each partner may have additional relationships -- but not with
children.

I was referring more to the OP's situation which isn't polyamorous. Here
there are two families with their similar and competing needs for the man's
emotions, time and money.

Heavens, unless the wife could get behind the idea -- and I consider
that extraordinarily unlikely -- there's no way this could be considered
polyamorous! Even then, since it started in deception, it just
wouldn't, very likely, work.


Sometimes it's a small group -- like a marriage of 3 or 4 people
instead of 2.

And, when you think about it, you're capable of loving more than one
child; why not more than one partner?

But it's different!

Our children are only on loan to us and we know they'll eventually leave and
move on with their own lives. My relationship with my husband has a quite
different set of expectations to the ones I have with my children.

Yes, I can quite easily love more than one man but I can't give each of them
(three would be a stretch) the amount of time and attention they would
deserve and we'd all end up being shortchanged. Others may be able to
compartmentalise their lives more easily than I could but I want the
intensity of connection that is only possible to have when you have just one
romantic love to concentrate on.

Leaving aside the emotional aspect of that it wouldn't be possible for me to
find the time, anyway. My life is too damn busy!


I understand, and agree *for myself*.


On the other hand, DH and I agree that what we need is a wife who LIKES
housework. . .

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Rupa Bose wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote

Hell, if you weigh 500 lbs, you are "entitled" to take up two seats,
right? - after all, it wasn't your fault, was it? Personal
responsibility?
Don't need it anymore! Our "illustrious" legal system will "protect
you",
as an "innocent little lamb VICTIM"! And, with a little luck, you'll
even
get to collect $50,000 as you pass GO (along with a few of our
prevalently
ethical attorneys, of course). (/sarcasm off)


Frankly, if you weigh 500 lbs, however you got there (and I would
think there is likely to be some underlying organic factor), you have
so many other problems that I can't see grudging you two seats.

Rupa

My mistake, I should have said 250 lbs, to make it more pragmatic for my
point. (If someone weighs 500 lbs, well, I don't even want to think about
that one)

dragonlady wrote:
In article , "Tai"
wrote:

snip

Leaving aside the emotional aspect of that it wouldn't be possible
for me to find the time, anyway. My life is too damn busy!


I understand, and agree *for myself*.


On the other hand, DH and I agree that what we need is a wife who
LIKES housework. . .

lol

Sounds good to me but .... I think I'd like an extra husband rather than a
wife..... since the husband in our house is just as good if not better than
the wife at housework!

Tai

Tai wrote:
dragonlady wrote:
In article , "Tai"
wrote:

snip

Leaving aside the emotional aspect of that it wouldn't be possible
for me to find the time, anyway. My life is too damn busy!


I understand, and agree *for myself*.


On the other hand, DH and I agree that what we need is a wife who
LIKES housework. . .

lol

Sounds good to me but .... I think I'd like an extra husband rather
than a wife..... since the husband in our house is just as good if
not better than the wife at housework!

Tai

Really - just hire a maid ;-)

--
Nikki

"Bill in Co." wrote:

Rupa Bose wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote

Hell, if you weigh 500 lbs, you are "entitled" to take up two seats,
right? - after all, it wasn't your fault, was it? Personal
responsibility?
Don't need it anymore! Our "illustrious" legal system will "protect
you",
as an "innocent little lamb VICTIM"! And, with a little luck, you'll
even
get to collect $50,000 as you pass GO (along with a few of our
prevalently
ethical attorneys, of course). (/sarcasm off)


Frankly, if you weigh 500 lbs, however you got there (and I would
think there is likely to be some underlying organic factor), you have
so many other problems that I can't see grudging you two seats.

Rupa

My mistake, I should have said 250 lbs, to make it more pragmatic for my
point. (If someone weighs 500 lbs, well, I don't even want to think about
that one)

I have weighed 240 lbs and I was always able to fit into one seat
without overlapping into an adjoining seat - even in coach. A lot
depends on how and where the weight is distributed. I'm probably
better off than a shorter person would be, and a taller person
wouldn't even be seen as particularly fat.

grandma Rosalie

I've pulled ogether a lot of information.
What we know about this guy is that:

- he's deceitful (if you don't like that nasty L-word and want to believe that
he just didn't think that his marital status was important to you)
- he sought you out in order to commit adultery with you
2 years ago a man that worked for a contractor for my (then) employer
began striking up conversations with me.
- he had unprotected sex with you
- he isn't very interested in his daughter
but he went a month without seeing our child. He didn't even
ask about her when we talked for 2 or 3 of those weeks.
- he can't even tell the truth to his wife when he confesses to his adultery
When he told his wife about our daughter, he
did not tell her the whole truth about our relationship. He minimized
quite a bit. I realize that he was a) trying to lessen her pain and
b) trying to make himself look better.
- you suspect that he has committed adultery before

This man's principle character trait is selfishness, with deceit,
irresponsibility and adultery the main manifestations. What prompted him to
confess to his wife, btw?

As for the affair itself, hop over to gloryb.com and read the stories and
articles, particularly the Cakeman article. These guys all have the same
script. His wife doesn't understand him, how unusual:
Over time I have gathered that he tried many times to
discuss his main disappointment - I'm not sure this is quite the right
word, but close - with their relationship and that she refused to
acknowledge it as a major problem.
Bet he complained about their sex life too.

The intensity of the relationship and "amazing sex" is typical, I'm sorry --
it was probably just as intense with all his other mistresses.

The problem is this: He continues to tell me that he loves me.

No, the problem is that you want to believe him.

He says that he does not want to walk away from [DD], but he also says
that he can't love her and not love me ... that we are a package.

How strange, then, that he can love his other children and not their mother.

he tells me that he daydreams about us being together to do all the
things that we both enjoy so much (and, no, it's not just sex). I am
unable to let go of the hope of being together under these
circumstances and have told him so many times.

SO why do you think he keeps saying these things, then?

They are currently seeing a counselor, and he's made the comment that
they, at least, need to stay together until their kids graduate from
high school.

Why? Is he trying to pretend that a divorce would be worse for his kids than
his adultery is?

he said "I'll never leave my children". He made
a commitment, and even though he's not truly happy and
satisfied with his marriage, he wants to live up to his duty.

Apart from the faithfulness bit, presumably. And anything else that's a bit
tiresome.

But every decision that I've made since then has been at least
partially based on what I feel is best for my child, and me removing
her father from her life is not, at this point in time IMHO, what is
best for her.

Fatherlessness is probably going to be better for your daughter than putting
up with a selfish, lying, irresponsible philanderer. Lots of girls grow up
without fathers. It isn't a ticket to Nowheresville -- but an emotionally
abusive, neglectful father often is.

He has said that he would like to attend school
plays, sporting events, graduation, etc.. If he wants to do that, I'm
all for it. She will know that she is important to him and that he
will "be there" for her ... that can't be bad for her, can it?

That isn't "being there". That is "turning up".

He also asks about and trys to keep track of health issues. Since he
sees her, it is important to note if she has an infectious cold or
something so he can attempt to not carry it to his older children.

Funny, he didn't seem to feel that way about you, his wife, and STDs!

So I should sacrifice what I believe may be real love to pay the price?

Real love doesn't lie. Real love doesn't endanger your health (have you been
tested for AIDS, chlamydia,etc?). Real love involves commitment and doing
what is best for your partner, not yourself.

You already know the answer, really. Run!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

(Rupa Bose) wrote in message

"Joy" wrote

IMO, implying that lovely, wonderful people should be "more flexible in
their outlook" than people in calinda's circle came across as having rather
a callous attitude toward the injured spouse - some of whom really and truly
get screwed.

Joy

This is true. His argument seems to be that the ex-spouses seem to
have recovered nicely and got on with happy (happier?) lives.

Yes, and because of that he says adultery should be more tolerated and
accepted. Of course this is an absurd logic. People can also fully
recover from being assaulted and beaten up. Does that mean it's more
civilized to be tolerant of violent people who assault others?!

I have to say I'm a lot more comfortable with that approach when there
are no kids involved.

Rupa