looking for other perspectives (very long)

"Bill in Co." wrote

Frankly, if you weigh 500 lbs, however you got there (and I would
think there is likely to be some underlying organic factor), you have
so many other problems that I can't see grudging you two seats.

Rupa

My mistake, I should have said 250 lbs, to make it more pragmatic for my
point. (If someone weighs 500 lbs, well, I don't even want to think about
that one)

Well, it's not true at 250 lbs, for sure, unless we live in different worlds.
I know someone who is 270 lbs, and always occupies only one seat.

Rupa

dragonlady wrote
re polyamory and time

Undoubtedly many solutions. However, from what I've read, at least in
the group-marriage approaches, since there are more adults to do the
various "jobs" there is also more free time to spend with the kids and
with each other.

I can see how that might work, if everyone lived together. Something
like the traditional extended family, where all the adults pitch in,
and the kids are parented by everyone. (However, one person who grew
up in such a family said, "You never get to see your own parents.")

When I've read older autobiographies of women in traditional polygamous
marriages, they often write favorably about their sister/wives, and the
joy they take in those relationships.

I think this is true, as long as they are not rivals. In traditional
families, the rivalry is often about the inheritance of the sons. If
that is fairly decided, or if the two women do not have competing
children, I think the relationship between the women is likely to be
closer than between the husband and any of the wives. It's a wholly
different model for relationships.


And, to go back to the original analogy -- if you have more than one
child, you manage to make time for all of them. Why not more than one
husband?

I think I was visualising separate households, not one household with
three or more adults. That would probably be less work (economies of
scale).

(Personally, I'm less sold on the "open marriage" approach to polyamory,
especially if it requires one person to split their time between two
"primary" relationships and two households -- but it apparently works
for some folks.)

True. I'd have the same concerns.

Rupa

Ignoramus15978 wrote:

In article , Emma Anne wrote:
shinypenny wrote:

I would be impressed if you told him you wanted no contact with him
except IRT your child, and if you immediately implemented visitation
through a neutral third-party to eliminate any contact with him. Until
you're ready to do that, I'm dubious about your intentions and ability
to handle this situation.

This is excellent advice. That's what we do when I help a woman get a
restraining order. He still has visitation, but it is set up so they
never see each other - via a grandparent or the like. I think the same
thing will be necessary here, because frankly this guy is Paula'a
addiction, and you don't get over addictions by having small hits on a
regular basis!



Are you suggesting that the OP gets a restraining order against that
man, even though he is not a threat to her safety?


Not at all. I see Lee described what I was talking about in another
follow up to your post, so I'll refer you to her/him.

shinypenny wrote:

5) With you, it's *different.* It's about *love.* And *emotions.* Not
just sex. You are *special.*

Ouch. Isn't that what every person who ever has an affair says. :-(

dragonlady wrote:
DH and I agree that what we need is a wife who
LIKES housework. . .

And we agree what we need is a wife who likes working, and has a high-paying
job.

Phoebe
--
yahoo address is unread; substitute mailbolt

Nikki wrote:
Tai wrote:
dragonlady wrote:
In article , "Tai"
wrote:

snip

Leaving aside the emotional aspect of that it wouldn't be possible
for me to find the time, anyway. My life is too damn busy!


I understand, and agree *for myself*.


On the other hand, DH and I agree that what we need is a wife who
LIKES housework. . .

lol

Sounds good to me but .... I think I'd like an extra husband rather
than a wife..... since the husband in our house is just as good if
not better than the wife at housework!

Tai

Really - just hire a maid ;-)

We don't have maids here, just cleaners. And an extra husband sounds far
more appealing than a maid(en)...

....I can't think why!

Tai

Paula wrote:

Thank you ... I've always gotten the impression that that's what
he meant when he said "I'll never leave my children". He made
a commitment, and even though he's not truly happy and
satisfied with his marriage, he wants to live up to his duty. Every
time that I've said "this is what you want to do" in reference to
staying in his marriage, he's responded with "it's not a want".
Admittedly, it may be BS to keep me hanging ... but I don't
think so.

Well, he *wants* to think of himself as a good guy, doing right by his kids and
wife, honoring his commitment, despite his unhappiness and dissatisfaction.

Unfortunately, he's not going about that in a very wise way, is he? Continuing
to dither about his feelings for you and their relative importance or
unimportance in relation to his family, lying to his wife about the amount of
money he's paying you (money that she might have been counting on for their
children's braces or music lessons, or even babysitters for romantic getaways
or counseling to rebuild their marriage...), considering suicide -- he's not
doing what he needs to be a good father.

Being a good dad involves way more than paying child support, attending plays
and sporting events or even living under the same roof. A good dad teaches his
kids, by example, about character, integrity, and perseverance in adversity.
And about delayed gratification -- foregoing short-term pleasures, no matter
how tempting, that will interfere with bigger, long-range goals, like the
well-being of his kids.

He's unhappy and dissatisfied with his marriage? Maybe he should have been
taking the initiative to make happen those fun times he said he wanted with his
wife, instead of complaining about her to outsiders. He wasn't living up to his
commitment to her, and by extension, to his kids, when he was criticizing her
to you, was he?

I think you'd do your daughter a huge, huge favor to disengage this man soonest
so his involvement in your lives is minimal. Do you want to make a life with a
guy who's demonstrated at every turn that he's never really understood what
"the right thing" is, much less had the strength to carry it out?

It's no excuse for the deceit and pain, but that's what I think is
going on as well.

Please remember that he is indeed continuing to deceive and hurt the very
people whom he held most dear (or claimed to). Good intentions don't count for
near as much in my book as walking the talk, and based on what you've written
throughout this thread, I'm inclined to think you'd agree.

You're not in an easy situation, and while I disagree with many of your earlier
judgments and your tendency to put the best face on his actions, I do admire
the strength, persistence and maturity you've shown in both seeking outside
opinions and in responding to the inevitable shock posters. I wish you and your
daughter well.

Lori G.

In article , "Tai"
wrote:

Nikki wrote:
Tai wrote:
dragonlady wrote:
In article , "Tai"
wrote:

snip

Leaving aside the emotional aspect of that it wouldn't be possible
for me to find the time, anyway. My life is too damn busy!


I understand, and agree *for myself*.


On the other hand, DH and I agree that what we need is a wife who
LIKES housework. . .

lol

Sounds good to me but .... I think I'd like an extra husband rather
than a wife..... since the husband in our house is just as good if
not better than the wife at housework!

Tai

Really - just hire a maid ;-)

We don't have maids here, just cleaners. And an extra husband sounds far
more appealing than a maid(en)...

...I can't think why!

Tai



If you were bisexual, you might feel differently . . . .
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

dragonlady wrote:
In article , "Tai"
wrote:

Nikki wrote:

snip


Really - just hire a maid ;-)

We don't have maids here, just cleaners. And an extra husband
sounds far more appealing than a maid(en)...

...I can't think why!

Tai



If you were bisexual, you might feel differently . . . .

I might, if I was, but I'm not....

Tai
(there's no accounting for taste!)

"_calinda_" wrote in message ...
Doug Anderson wrote:
Ugh... Flexible. I'm sure the spouses of the people
having affairs are happy that those around them are so
flexible over the whole thing. They must take a great deal
of solace in that fact. Disgusting.

wow, you must *really* hate poly folks! no way to cram them
into your nice, neat suburban nuclear family box, huh?
lee

Maybe she just hates folks who lie to people they claim to love.

Exactly. If people all agree with that lifestyle then it's totally
different. It's the intentional lies and betrayal, the deliberate
choice to inflict pain upon those you have vowed not to, that I
can't stand.
Cal~

Look, I understand this attitude, but having recently contemplated
adultery after 25 years of monogamy, I thought I would contribute the
reason I was considering it.

My spouse has been through some really stressful situations in the
past 2 years. This has culminated in a long and deep depression that
my spouse refuses to seek help for. I even considered involuntary
commitment, but after consulting with a therapist decided that was not
the best option.

This depression has resulted in my spouse being unable to meet my
needs. While this sitatuion is tolerable for a while and while I love
my spouse deeply and do not wish to end the relationship, I've also
reached the limit of what I am willing to endure in regards to my own
needs not being met. In addition, I have been extremely reluctant to
complain about this or suggest a separation both because I understand
why its happening and want to be supportive and because I think that
doing so might trigger a suicide attempt.

In that situation, I found that adultery became a thinkable option.
Although in the end, I decided that adultery was as likely to result
in my spouse attempting suicide as divorce or separation and decided
against it.

Anyway, I just just thought you might want to reconsider your ideas
because people sometimes find themselves in situations where what was
once unthinkable becomes, well, thinkable. If I had found myself in a
particularly tempting situation during the time I was contemplating
adultery, I might well have succumbed to the temptation.