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#11
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R R R R R R R ... too bad, dummies -- TOADJAH IT WAS COMING.
0:- wrote:
And the battle begins. As you can see the hyuck hyuck with the on strap overalls are gathering like a pack of rabid skunks so afraid they won't be able to keep their dangerous spawn in line if they can't beat them into compliance. Isn't it cute: http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_018210510.html clock Jan 18, 2007 6:06 pm US/Pacific CBS 5 Poll: Majority Oppose Calif. Spanking Ban Slideshows: View Photos Of The Day (CBS 5 / KCBS) SAN FRANCISCO Do parents have the right to spank their children? It is a controversial issue, and while a Bay Area lawmaker wants it addressed in Sacramento -- a majority of those surveyed for a new CBS 5 poll expressed opposition to a spanking ban. In California, it's currently against the law for anyone but parents to spank a child. A proposed new law would make it illegal for them, too, if the child is 3 years old or younger. Assemblywoman Sally Lieber (D-Mountain View) wants the practice of swatting a child on the behind outlawed and is in the process of drafting a bill to do so. A poll of 500 Bay Area adults conducted for CBS 5 by Survey USA on Thursday found 57% would oppose such a bill, while only 23% would support it. The poll, with a margin of error of plus or minus 4.4%, showed 11% undecided. Parents at the playgroup at Parent's Place in San Francisco, non-profit Jewish family child and parents service group, said they don't believe in spanking young children, but they said outlawing it worries them. Joanna Jhanda as a one year old girl, said she understands the need for a law, but it troubles her: "There are certainly cases of extreme abuse,and those need to be addressed. I don't know if this law would help those children." Victoria Wylie has a four month old and she's worried about where the law draws the line. She said, "If someone sees me doing something.. what they would consider spanking.. and it's not, I'm a little uncomfortable I'd be under investigation." The proposed law would make spanking a child under 3 misdemeanor child abuse, an extenstion of current corporal punishment laws. Violators could spend a year in jail, and pay up to $1000 in fines. Enforcement is unclear. San Francisco assistant district attorney Paul Henderson prosecutes child abuse cases, and he welcomes a no spanking law. "If you're going to spank your child, you need to know the limit," said Henderson, "and you need to know that doing it in a way that's cruel or traumatic causes injury, and that you could be prosecuted." At the parenting classes at Parent's Place, spanking is considered the wrong discipline. Lee Ann Slaton leads discipline classes there. She said, "It teaches a child, if you're bigger you can hit. Violence begets violence.. and they're not learning." An anti-spanking law in California would be the country's first. Supporters claim the U.S. is far behind some other nations in this issue. According to Lieber, fifteen countries worldwide have outlawed spanking of children, and under international law, it's considered a human rights abuse. Critics maintain a spanking ban is an intrusion on the family, while supporters call it protecting a defenseless child. (© MMVII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.) Yah just couldn't stop wallopin' on your kids for moral and intelligent reasons, of course, you puckering Neatherthals. Even if she loses, you stupid thugs, it's one more nail in your puckering brutal assault of children disguised by the a self indulgent claim of "love" for your children while you assault them. R R R R R We're gonna getcha stupid. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...htm?source=rss Posted on Thu, Jan. 18, 2007 No-spank bill on way By Mike Zapler MediaNews Sacramento Bureau SACRAMENTO - The state Legislature is about to weigh in on a question that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank their children? Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, wants to outlaw spanking children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking their kids. Making a swat on the behind a misdemeanor might seem a bit much for some -- and the chances of the idea becoming law appear slim, at best -- but Lieber begs to differ. ``I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child 3 years old or younger,'' Lieber said. ``Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?'' The bill, which is still being drafted, will be written broadly, she added, prohibiting ``any striking of a child, any corporal punishment, smacking, hitting, punching, any of that.'' Lieber said it would be a misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail or a fine up to $1,000, although a legal expert advising her on the proposal said first-time offenders would probably only have to attend parenting classes. The idea is encountering skepticism even before it's been formally introduced. Beyond the debate among child psychologists -- many of whom believe limited spanking can be effective -- the bill is sure to face questions over how practical it is to enforce and opposition from some legislators who generally oppose what they consider ``nanny government.'' ``Where do you stop?'' asked Assemblyman Chuck DeVore, R-Irvine, who said he personally agrees children under 3 shouldn't be spanked but has no desire to make it the law. ``At what point are we going to say we should pass a bill that every parent has to read a minimum of 30 minutes every night to their child? This is right along those same lines.'' One San Jose mother of three said she believes spanking is a poor way to discipline children, but she also wondered whether a legislative ban makes sense. Should a mom who slaps her misbehaving kid in the supermarket, she asked, be liable for a crime? ``If my 6-year-old doesn't put his clothes in the hamper, I'm not going to whack him. He just won't get his clothes washed,'' said Peggy Hertzberg, 38, who teaches parenting classes at the YWCA. ``I think instead of banning spanking, parents need to learn different ways of disciplining and redirecting their children.'' Lieber conceived the idea while chatting with a family friend and legal expert in children's issues worldwide. The friend, Thomas Nazario, said that while banning spanking might seem like a radical step for the United States, more than 10 European countries already do so. Sweden was the first, in 1979. Nazario said there's no good rationale for hitting a child under 3, so the state should draw a ``bright line'' in the law making it clear. ``Why do we allow parents to hit a little child and not someone their own size?'' asked Nazario, a professor at the University of San Francisco Law School. ``Everyone in the state is protected from physical violence, so where do you draw the line? To take a child and spank his little butt until he starts crying, some people would define that as physical violence.'' It's unclear how a spanking ban would be enforced. Most slapping, after all, happens in the confines of a home, and most children up to age 3 aren't capable of reporting it. Doctors, social workers and others who believe a child has been abused are required by law to report it to authorities. Nazario said he and Lieber are still debating whether to treat slapping the same way, or simply to encourage those who witness it to report it. But in either case, said Lieber, the law ``would allow people who view a beating to say, `Excuse me, that's against the law.' '' Experts in child psychology disagree over whether spanking is a legitimate or effective way for parents to discipline their children. Professor Robert Larzelere, who has studied child discipline for 30 years, said his research shows spanking is fine, as long as it's used sparingly and doesn't escalate to abuse. ``If it's used in a limited way,'' the Oklahoma State University professor said, ``it can be more effective than almost any other type of punishment.'' He added that children 18 months old or younger shouldn't be spanked at all, because they can't understand why it's happening. As for Lieber's proposal, the professor said: ``I think this proposal is not just a step too far, it's a leap too far. At least from a scientific perspective there really isn't any research to support the idea that this would make things better for children.'' But Lieber is optimistic that lawmakers will find her proposal hard to resist. For the record, she does not have children and says she was not slapped as a child. But she does have a cat named Snoop, which her veterinarian told her never to hit. ``And if you never hit a cat,'' Lieber said, ``you should never hit a kid.'' Contact Mike Zapler at or (916) 441-4603. The Mercury News is pleased to let readers post comments about a report at the end of the article. Please increase the credibility of your post by including your full name and city when commenting. © 2007 MercuryNews.com and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. http://www.mercurynews.com http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...htm?source=rss |
#12
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Update. ... R R R R R R R ... too bad, dummies -- TOADJAH IT WAS COMING.
For many years I tried the route of reason, appeals to conscience, and
research result arguments, only to find that those that insisted on defending spanking and advocating for it would not respond to one or more of those. I resisted the idea of there needing to be a law. You can ask LaVonne if that is not true. She and I disagreed, up until last year. At time, being open to reasoned argument myself, and seeing that her's were valid based on her and my own experience with attempting all the non-anti spanking law way, it dawned on me I was wrong to expect moral suasion to work. It doesn't. Any more than it did with slavery, women's sufferage, or exploitation of children. I also predicted that law would be coming. I watched and explained the Canadian effort. They have changed their laws to make an incremental change, rather than all at once, but their law is very much like this one being introduced in California. And this law is one I don't accept as yet. I would still prefer to see a non-punitive Swedish style law. That might indicate I'm naive still about my countrymen and their willingness to accept moral pursuasion. We'll see. So here's an update for you: I find it amusing that The Governator himself chose not to use corporal punishment on his children. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070120/.../spanking_bill Back to Story - Help Yahoo! News Calif. lawmaker seeks ban on spanking Sat Jan 20, 6:56 AM ET California parents could face jail and a fine for spanking their young children under legislation a state lawmaker has promised to introduce next week. Democratic Assemblywoman Sally Lieber said such a law is needed because spanking victimizes helpless children and breeds violence in society. "I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child," Lieber said. "Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?" Lieber said her proposal would make spanking, hitting and slapping a child under 4 years old a misdemeanor. Adults could face up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine. Aides to the assemblywoman said they are still working on a definition for spanking. Some Republican lawmakers called the idea ridiculous. But Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he may be receptive to it even though he has concerns about how the ban would be enforced. The governor said he and his wife, Maria Shriver, did not spank their four children and used alternative methods for discipline. For example, Schwarzenegger said they found it more effective to threaten to take away their children's play time if they didn't do school work. "They hate that much more than getting spanked," he told reporters Friday in Los Angeles. California law permits spanking by parents unless the degree of force is excessive or not appropriate for the child's age. Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. Copyright © 2007 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved. Questions or Comments Privacy Policy -Terms of Service - Copyright/IP Policy - Ad Feedback |
#13
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Update. ... R R R R R R R ... too bad, dummies -- TOADJAH IT WAS COMING.
Kane himself already said this bill probably won't make it into law.
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