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#11
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P. Tierney wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message ... I was recently in Tucson with a friend of mine and we went to check on a rental property she owns. Her 2 year old was in the car seat, napping, and my friend left her there when we went to check the house. The windows were all down (this thanks to me -- my friend thought you could leave the windows up on a 70 degree day in Tucson! This is the kind of thing that worries me about my friend.). We were in the house about 15-20 minutes. She never went to check on the toddler and we could not see the car from the house unless we were in the front room. We went all over the house and the back yard. My husband went to check on the toddler during this time. My friend did not know he did it. I felt VERY uncomfortable about the fact that my friend left her kid in the car unattended and I mentioned it to her. She dismissed my concerns, saying that it was a safe neighborhood and one she was familiar with. She also said that she didn't like to wake up her daughter from her nap because she was so tired. I do not have children. I know that I would NEVER leave my baby (if I had one) alone in a car, but maybe I am just paranoid -- maybe, since I don't have kids, I just don't understand. What should I do? Should I mention it again, more forcefully this time? I don't think it's necessary to be confrontational. If you were in the exact same situation (away from the car from 15 minutes), then I'd just say, "You go ahead and check the property. I prefer to wait outside, as I'm uncomfortable in leaving a child alone in an open car for so long." Cite news stories or something, if needed, to explain your In such a case, you aren't telling what the other parent to do, but you are accomplishing the necessary task (keeping an eye on the child) yourself. So all is well. And the parent doesn't need a lecture anyway, as that's usually a waste of time. Adults, like their kids, learn better by example. As for the other posts, I agree with the one minute standard as making sense. I wouldn't wake a child to run inside the bakery to grab a loaf of bread, or go up to the counter to pay for my gas. In both cases, I can see the car pretty much at all times. P. Tierney I think P. Tierney's advice is spot on -- the other point is that the ratio of adults to children in your Tucson example was 3:1 Things get trickier when the ratio is 1:3 and aren't as straightforward as carrying 1 child with you. We don't use the 'one minute standard' as a 'gold standard,' since there are places where *I* wouldn't want to be left alone in the car for a minute. There are also places where it's more reasonable leave a child asleep, but this doesn't sound like one. I find the 'scared straight' approach suggested to be just scaremongering -- I mean, would you really abduct a baby from a hospital to teach someone that they should have roomed-in? (Having been in healthcare, I remember learning about attempted (non-reportable) infant abductions and just finding it, well, grim. On the upside, successful hospital abductions have been declining since the 90's.) Caledonia |
#12
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"toypup" wrote in message om... "Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message u... Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less then that even) I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in the back seat and the thief didn't know it. Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a parent was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents wandering away. From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or two a year in the entire US, and I'd say most of those are car jackings. Note, I'm not saying you should leave children in cars, I'm just tired of folks fear mongering about imagined dangers, instead of the obvious ones, like a child overheating in a parked car. |
#13
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P. Tierney wrote: "nimue" wrote in message ... I was recently in Tucson with a friend of mine and we went to check on a rental property she owns. Her 2 year old was in the car seat, napping, and my friend left her there when we went to check the house. The windows were all down (this thanks to me -- my friend thought you could leave the windows up on a 70 degree day in Tucson! This is the kind of thing that worries me about my friend.). We were in the house about 15-20 minutes. She never went to check on the toddler and we could not see the car from the house unless we were in the front room. We went all over the house and the back yard. My husband went to check on the toddler during this time. My friend did not know he did it. I felt VERY uncomfortable about the fact that my friend left her kid in the car unattended and I mentioned it to her. She dismissed my concerns, saying that it was a safe neighborhood and one she was familiar with. She also said that she didn't like to wake up her daughter from her nap because she was so tired. I do not have children. I know that I would NEVER leave my baby (if I had one) alone in a car, but maybe I am just paranoid -- maybe, since I don't have kids, I just don't understand. What should I do? Should I mention it again, more forcefully this time? I don't think it's necessary to be confrontational. If you were in the exact same situation (away from the car from 15 minutes), then I'd just say, "You go ahead and check the property. I prefer to wait outside, as I'm uncomfortable in leaving a child alone in an open car for so long." Cite news stories or something, if needed, to explain your In such a case, you aren't telling what the other parent to do, but you are accomplishing the necessary task (keeping an eye on the child) yourself. So all is well. And the parent doesn't need a lecture anyway, as that's usually a waste of time. Adults, like their kids, learn better by example. As for the other posts, I agree with the one minute standard as making sense. I wouldn't wake a child to run inside the bakery to grab a loaf of bread, or go up to the counter to pay for my gas. In both cases, I can see the car pretty much at all times. P. Tierney Makes sense, but I'm so paranoid that I've never left them even to pay for gas or whatever. If I lost the kids my wife would kill me. |
#14
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"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message om... "toypup" wrote in message om... "Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message u... Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less then that even) I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in the back seat and the thief didn't know it. Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a parent was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents wandering away. From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or two a year in the entire US, and I'd say most of those are car jackings. Note, I'm not saying you should leave children in cars, I'm just tired of folks fear mongering about imagined dangers, instead of the obvious ones, like a child overheating in a parked car. The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the kids in the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not so much the likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?* As I said to my DH, who just paled upon thinking about it, the consequences are so horrifyingly small that a vanishingly small chance is just not small enough. I am with you on making things seem what they are not. I do not see the value in it. But even if temperature is not a problem, I still would not leave my kids. |
#15
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P. Tierney wrote: "nimue" wrote in message ... I was recently in Tucson with a friend of mine and we went to check on a rental property she owns. Her 2 year old was in the car seat, napping, and my friend left her there when we went to check the house. The windows were all down (this thanks to me -- my friend thought you could leave the windows up on a 70 degree day in Tucson! This is the kind of thing that worries me about my friend.). We were in the house about 15-20 minutes. She never went to check on the toddler and we could not see the car from the house unless we were in the front room. We went all over the house and the back yard. My husband went to check on the toddler during this time. My friend did not know he did it. I felt VERY uncomfortable about the fact that my friend left her kid in the car unattended and I mentioned it to her. She dismissed my concerns, saying that it was a safe neighborhood and one she was familiar with. She also said that she didn't like to wake up her daughter from her nap because she was so tired. I do not have children. I know that I would NEVER leave my baby (if I had one) alone in a car, but maybe I am just paranoid -- maybe, since I don't have kids, I just don't understand. What should I do? Should I mention it again, more forcefully this time? I don't think it's necessary to be confrontational. If you were in the exact same situation (away from the car from 15 minutes), then I'd just say, "You go ahead and check the property. I prefer to wait outside, as I'm uncomfortable in leaving a child alone in an open car for so long." Cite news stories or something, if needed, to explain your In such a case, you aren't telling what the other parent to do, but you are accomplishing the necessary task (keeping an eye on the child) yourself. So all is well. And the parent doesn't need a lecture anyway, as that's usually a waste of time. Adults, like their kids, learn better by example. As for the other posts, I agree with the one minute standard as making sense. I wouldn't wake a child to run inside the bakery to grab a loaf of bread, or go up to the counter to pay for my gas. In both cases, I can see the car pretty much at all times. Actually, the gas station is one place I never leave kids in the car (thank goodness for pay at the pump!) I've heard too many stories of car-jackings, and gas stations seem to be the most popular locations. And if I do leave kids in the car, I never leave the car running - that really makes me paranoid, both from a car-jacking point, and from a "what if the kid gets out of the carseat" point. Irene |
#16
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P. Tierney wrote: I don't think it's necessary to be confrontational. If you were in the exact same situation (away from the car from 15 minutes), then I'd just say, "You go ahead and check the property. I prefer to wait outside, as I'm uncomfortable in leaving a child alone in an open car for so long." Cite news stories or something, if needed, to explain your In such a case, you aren't telling what the other parent to do, but you are accomplishing the necessary task (keeping an eye on the child) yourself. So all is well. And the parent doesn't need a lecture anyway, as that's usually a waste of time. Adults, like their kids, learn better by example. As for the other posts, I agree with the one minute standard as making sense. I wouldn't wake a child to run inside the bakery to grab a loaf of bread, or go up to the counter to pay for my gas. In both cases, I can see the car pretty much at all times. P. I have a flexible minute standard. If it's in my own driveway (where we live, inconspicuous carjarkers are vanishingly unlikely) and the temperature is temperate, I might leave him napping long enough to run inside and get a drink or quickly use the bathroom, which might be longer than a literal minute. I've left him in the car to cross the few feet from the curb to the video drop off, but I always take the keys out so the car's not an easy carjacking target. If the temperature isn't comfortable enough to be able to remove the keys, I don't leave him; I wait until he wakes up to do the errand or whatever. I actually shy away from anything where I have to pay because lines are so unpredictable, but I might get more flexible about this as he gets older. Twenty minutes is way too long. Even if the temperature is fine, there are no conceivable carjackers, and the car has been left so it is safe as houses, a small child waking up alone in a car would probably be confused and scared. Beth |
#17
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Hillary Israeli wrote:
In , nimue wrote: *I was recently in Tucson with a friend of mine and we went to check on a *rental property she owns. Her 2 year old was in the car seat, napping, and *my friend left her there when we went to check the house. The windows were http://www.azcapa.org/capa/pressmain4.html - this explains some reasons why it is stupid to leave kids in the car alone http://nrc.uchsc.edu/STATES/AZ/az_3.htm - this one states that it is illegal for a family care provider to leave a child unattended in a vehicle i can't find any site containing any rules regarding parents leaving their own kids in the car specifically, but I imagine this would fall into the child endangerment statutes... I thank you from the bottom of my heart for this information. I am dreading this talk with my friend -- I expect it will happen tomorrow or Wednesday -- and it will be great to have this information to back up what I have to say. Thank you. -- nimue "If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon "There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete bitches." Dawn French |
#18
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Stephanie Stowe wrote:
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message om... "toypup" wrote in message om... "Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message u... Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less then that even) I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in the back seat and the thief didn't know it. Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a parent was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents wandering away. From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or two a year in the entire US, and I'd say most of those are car jackings. Note, I'm not saying you should leave children in cars, I'm just tired of folks fear mongering about imagined dangers, instead of the obvious ones, like a child overheating in a parked car. The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the kids in the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not so much the likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?* As I said to my DH, who just paled upon thinking about it, the consequences are so horrifyingly small that a vanishingly small chance is just not small enough. THAT is good parenting. In fact, THAT is a good way to think in general. This is why my friend gets into trouble so often. She just doesn't think of the worst possible consequences. She just thinks the world is a much safer place than I do. I am with you on making things seem what they are not. I do not see the value in it. But even if temperature is not a problem, I still would not leave my kids. -- nimue "If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon "There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete bitches." Dawn French |
#19
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On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:17:16 -0500, "Stephanie Stowe"
scribbled: The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the kids in the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not so much the likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?* As I said to my DH, who just paled upon thinking about it, the consequences are so horrifyingly small that a vanishingly small chance is just not small enough. This is my reasoning, as well. I won't debate the "what ifs" and percentages of likelihoods with anyone here, but I don't leave mine in the car for any reason other than I'd stated for opening the door of our house and dropping my purse or groceries inside. It's just not a risk (no matter how minute) I wish to take. If my dd2 is asleep, I just don't stop for bread or a newspaper or whatever. It's not important enough to me, to leave her in the car. I always pay at the pump if the kids are with me, too. Nan |
#20
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"Stephanie Stowe" wrote in message ... "Cathy Kearns" wrote in message om... "toypup" wrote in message om... "Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message u... Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less then that even) I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in the back seat and the thief didn't know it. Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a parent was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents wandering away. From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or two a year in the entire US, and I'd say most of those are car jackings. Note, I'm not saying you should leave children in cars, I'm just tired of folks fear mongering about imagined dangers, instead of the obvious ones, like a child overheating in a parked car. The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the kids in the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not so much the likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?* As I said to my DH, who just paled upon thinking about it, the consequences are so horrifyingly small that a vanishingly small chance is just not small enough. That's a good reason for not leaving your child. You acknowledge that it's vanishingly small, but not small enough. I can certainly see that. I am with you on making things seem what they are not. I do not see the value in it. But even if temperature is not a problem, I still would not leave my kids. I'm just against the argument of not leaving your kids because "there are a lot of situation reported where the child was unintentionally taken..." It's too easy to disprove, there aren't "a lot", so it's not persuasive. |
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