Time Outs Don't Work

Well, I knew this day would come. ;-)

We're trying to get our kids to listen to us when it comes to yanking on
electrical cords, running with scissors (kidding), and the like.

Seriously, when we *do* find the need to say no to our 15-month old twins
(Henry and Ella), we've been trying a 1-minute timeout in their pack and
play in an unoccupied (and boring?) room.

They don't ever seem to mind their timeouts, and they look at us and laugh
when we tell them "NO" very sternly. Ella even has taken to shaking her
finger at us and saying "No no no". (I'm assuming she learned this at
daycare, since we don't finger wag. ;-)

Any advice on something that would be effective to get the "No" into their
little heads?? I'd love to go to a timeout method if we could find a way
to make it something meaningful to them. Right now, it is just a different
place to play. When they're out of the timeout, it doesn't take long and
they're right back in trouble again.

Our kids are so good most of the time, great dispositions, and they *do*
listen to us quite a bit--it's just that they don't seem to get "No."

--

Jonathan Wolgamuth jonwolgamuth at emailaccount dot com

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On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 19:30:47 -0000, Jonathan Wolgamuth
wrote:

Any advice on something that would be effective to get the "No" into their
little heads?? I'd love to go to a timeout method if we could find a way
to make it something meaningful to them. Right now, it is just a different
place to play. When they're out of the timeout, it doesn't take long and
they're right back in trouble again.

When we used to tell them not to touch electric chords, we always
included an explanation that it was dangerous. It took awhile to sink
in, but eventually, they got the message.
--
-Seth Jackson, proud father of Derek and Mariel(10/1/99). Pictures at:
http://hitmeister.home.mindspring.co...ypictures.html

Music links: www.mp3.com/SethJackson
www.mp3.com/loudspeaker
www.SethJackson.net

In message on 21 Aug
2004, Seth Jackson said to all at alt.parenting.twins-triplets

Any advice on something that would be effective to get the "No" into
their little heads?? I'd love to go to a timeout method if we could
find a way to make it something meaningful to them. Right now, it is
just a different place to play. When they're out of the timeout, it
doesn't take long and they're right back in trouble again.

When we used to tell them not to touch electric chords, we always
included an explanation that it was dangerous. It took awhile to sink
in, but eventually, they got the message.

Seth, thanks for the response. I don't know. Our kids are only 15-months
old, and even though we *do* mention the danger out loud, I think they only
can grasp a few ideas (mostly "more" "milk" "please", etc.)

Oh, and they know how to give hugs and kisses when you ask for them (which
is quite a bit!) so maybe they are not far away from a deeper understanding
when it comes to other things. Who knows.
--

Jonathan Wolgamuth jonwolgamuth at emailaccount dot com

this space left intentionally blank

Time outs aren't only for the kids...they can REALLY help the parents, too.
When you give the kid a time out, you get a little break, and the kid is in a
safe place. I've never thought that little ones should be 'punished' because
they don't know what that means (BTW, I really only believe in 'natural
consequences' as opposed to punishment...and a 'time out' can really be a
natural consequence as in "you can't deal well with where you are right now, so
we're going to move to a safe place'). And I like the idea of giving a (brief)
explanation about the reason for the time out -- maybe your child won't
understand right away, but if you are consistent, it can begin to get through
(e.g., the word "dangerous" is linked to 'don't touch and if you do ... you get
moved someplace else.) The explanation is helpful to mom and/or dad... a
reminder to you about WHY you are picking up and moving the child. Our little
twin grandsons are 3-1/2 now, and they know what a "time out" is.... as in, "If
you don't stop poking at the dog, you will get a time out" and they stop. So
they DO learn the concept. Now they even know what it means to say, "if you
get a time out, you might just miss your favorite program, or MomMom's visit
or.... (put in something they really would rather be attending to, as opposed
to stuck in 'time out').
Grandmom Gwen

I said time outs didn't work at that age, too. But, I was told to be
persistent with them. I was...and they worked. It took several months of
being extremely patient and secretly rolling my eyes at the idea. That sounds
like no big deal, but believe me it was. When you think of repeatedly doing
the same thing every day for 75 straight days times two children...let's just
say it was a frustrating struggle at times. Like you, I'm fortunate to have
relatively well-behaved kids. But, I'm in the camp of "we're the parents and
you're the kids". So even if it wasn't due to pulling a cord, I was still
stubborn. Mind you, my girls are stubborn, too In the beginning they would
look at me and basically convey that I could put them in time out all I want
and it wouldn't matter. But, eventually they wore down

They didn't have a toy during a time out. It *did* come with an explanation
(even younger than 15mos), and we are still effectively using them. Sometimes
we have to resort to a harsher punishment/lesson. But, most times are handled
with a time out. For us, consistency and persistence won out. I hope you find
that to be the case for you, too.

Good luck!
Missy in Indiana http://hometown.aol.com/mhrust/overviewforng.html
Morgan Olivia & Julia Lucille 4/28/01 (YAY!)

Sorry but we found removal of the twins from the place of harm was much more
effective and giving them something that they really were interested in.
It's called distraction. They will eventually get used to the time outs but
not yet! In almost all the books we read time outs were not good to use for
kids below 2.5. Removal and distraction with a firm NO was the greatest
thing we found. They are not yet into verbalizing things yet and can't
understand a whole lot. How about this - you go to France, you do something
wrong, you don't quiet understand the language and the police put you in
jail for a short time. Confused - you bet. We found they were so much more
responsive to just removing them well into their second year. We removed
absolutely everything that was dangerous to them, stools, cords (behind
couches, under rugs, and covers on all the outlets. Our place looked quiet
vacant too we removed anything they could hurt themselves on (practically).
As they grew older (2.5 and older) we started to bring things in that we
could get a message across to them that they shouldn't touch or play with.
Now I can't say it works for 9.5 year olds but it did work for 2.5. Have
patience, if you must remove them don't make it a "real time out" just put
them in their play pen with toys to let them know "this is what you want to
have them play with - not the cord." We also found that if we saw them
playing with something they shouldn't be, we'd get very excited about
something else, like "oh loooook at this - how fun --- and start to play
with them. The interest in the cord etc., disappeared - they have very
limited attention spans and that really does include negative things they
are playing with too.

Good luck, have patience, and enjoy them - it goes so very fast and soon
enough they are ending their career in elemementary school!

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95

"Jonathan Wolgamuth" wrote in message
. 1...
Well, I knew this day would come. ;-)

We're trying to get our kids to listen to us when it comes to yanking on
electrical cords, running with scissors (kidding), and the like.

Seriously, when we *do* find the need to say no to our 15-month old twins
(Henry and Ella), we've been trying a 1-minute timeout in their pack and
play in an unoccupied (and boring?) room.

They don't ever seem to mind their timeouts, and they look at us and laugh
when we tell them "NO" very sternly. Ella even has taken to shaking her
finger at us and saying "No no no". (I'm assuming she learned this at
daycare, since we don't finger wag. ;-)

Any advice on something that would be effective to get the "No" into their
little heads?? I'd love to go to a timeout method if we could find a way
to make it something meaningful to them. Right now, it is just a
different
place to play. When they're out of the timeout, it doesn't take long and
they're right back in trouble again.

Our kids are so good most of the time, great dispositions, and they *do*
listen to us quite a bit--it's just that they don't seem to get "No."

--

Jonathan Wolgamuth jonwolgamuth at emailaccount dot com

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On 21 Aug 2004 20:09:27 GMT, (GwenO MS) wrote:

And I like the idea of giving a (brief)
explanation about the reason for the time out -- maybe your child won't
understand right away, but if you are consistent, it can begin to get through
(e.g., the word "dangerous" is linked to 'don't touch and if you do ... you get
moved someplace else.)

We used the word "dangerous" a lot, since there were a lot of
dangerous behaviors we tried to discourage. When a dangerous behavior
resulted in a minor accident such as falling off a chair, we would
explain that the accident happened because the behavior was dangerous.
I think this helped the meaning of "dangerous" sink in.
--
-Seth Jackson, proud father of Derek and Mariel(10/1/99). Pictures at:
http://hitmeister.home.mindspring.co...ypictures.html

Music links: www.mp3.com/SethJackson
www.mp3.com/loudspeaker
www.SethJackson.net

Jonathan --

In our experience, kids that age understand MUCH more than most adults give
them credit for. Explain EVERYTHING, talk to them a lot, and honestly,
you'll be surprised. When the kids were about a year old, my husband used
to laugh at me when I explained things to the kids, and told me they were
far too young to understand. He stopped laughing (and ate some crow -- a
rare occurrence for my DH) when Erica was about 14 months old and crawled
over to us crying. I guessed that her bunny was missing (the cause of 95%
of teary episodes...), and told her that her bunny was on the floor next to
the upstairs crib. She crawled off, went to the correct crib, and crawled
downstairs with her bunny and a smile on her face.

As for your question, besides "dangerous", I would add something about
"hurting themselves" as that might be a bit less abstract to them.

Julie
Mom to Erica & Chris, 07/97


"Jonathan Wolgamuth" wrote in message
...
In message on 21 Aug
2004, Seth Jackson said to all at alt.parenting.twins-triplets

Any advice on something that would be effective to get the "No" into
their little heads?? I'd love to go to a timeout method if we could
find a way to make it something meaningful to them. Right now, it is
just a different place to play. When they're out of the timeout, it
doesn't take long and they're right back in trouble again.

When we used to tell them not to touch electric chords, we always
included an explanation that it was dangerous. It took awhile to sink
in, but eventually, they got the message.

Seth, thanks for the response. I don't know. Our kids are only 15-months
old, and even though we *do* mention the danger out loud, I think they
only
can grasp a few ideas (mostly "more" "milk" "please", etc.)

Oh, and they know how to give hugs and kisses when you ask for them (which
is quite a bit!) so maybe they are not far away from a deeper
understanding
when it comes to other things. Who knows.
--

Jonathan Wolgamuth jonwolgamuth at emailaccount dot com

this space left intentionally blank

In message on 21 Aug 2004, Julie
said to all at alt.parenting.twins-triplets

In our experience, kids that age understand MUCH more than most adults
give them credit for. Explain EVERYTHING, talk to them a lot, and
honestly, you'll be surprised. When the kids were about a year old,
my husband used to laugh at me when I explained things to the kids,
and told me they were far too young to understand. He stopped
laughing (and ate some crow -- a rare occurrence for my DH)

It isn't rare for me. I eat crow quite often. I'm beginning to consider
it a delicacy. ;-)

when Erica
was about 14 months old and crawled over to us crying. I guessed that
her bunny was missing (the cause of 95% of teary episodes...), and
told her that her bunny was on the floor next to the upstairs crib.
She crawled off, went to the correct crib, and crawled downstairs with
her bunny and a smile on her face.

That's cute! Ella has recently (last month or so) really become attached
to her stuffed "Ella"phant. She has to have it with her all the time.

As for your question, besides "dangerous", I would add something about
"hurting themselves" as that might be a bit less abstract to them.

Thanks for the advice--it looks like we really just need to continue down
the road we're on. Persistance pays off, right? ;-)

--

Jonathan Wolgamuth jonwolgamuth at emailaccount dot com

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In message on 21 Aug
2004, GwenO MS said to all at alt.parenting.twins-triplets

Time outs aren't only for the kids...they can REALLY help the parents,
too. When you give the kid a time out, you get a little break, and the
kid is in a safe place. I've never thought that little ones should be
'punished' because they don't know what that means (BTW, I really only
believe in 'natural consequences' as opposed to punishment...and a
'time out' can really be a natural consequence as in "you can't deal
well with where you are right now, so we're going to move to a safe
place'). And I like the idea of giving a (brief) explanation about
the reason for the time out -- maybe your child won't understand right
away, but if you are consistent, it can begin to get through (e.g.,
the word "dangerous" is linked to 'don't touch and if you do ... you
get moved someplace else.) The explanation is helpful to mom and/or
dad... a reminder to you about WHY you are picking up and moving the
child. Our little twin grandsons are 3-1/2 now, and they know what a
"time out" is.... as in, "If you don't stop poking at the dog, you
will get a time out" and they stop. So they DO learn the concept.
Now they even know what it means to say, "if you get a time out, you
might just miss your favorite program, or MomMom's visit or.... (put
in something they really would rather be attending to, as opposed to
stuck in 'time out').

Excellent points all, GG. Thanks for the post!

--

Jonathan Wolgamuth jonwolgamuth at emailaccount dot com

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