Stubborn 4 year old boy.

On Feb 19, 7:48 am, Beliavsky wrote:
On Feb 19, 7:09 am, enigma wrote:



Beliavsky wrote
oups.com:

On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote:
Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have
never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more
compliant, but not break his spirit?

You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it
seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive
spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad
long-term consequences.

i don't think you think much at all. you form an opinion &
then look for *anything* that supports your opinion, even if
you have to deliberately misread it to validate your thoughts.
the OPs child is not severely misbehaving, he's *stubborn*.
there's a huge difference.

I guess thinking differently from you is the same as not thinking at
all. Are there any situations where you think spanking is justified?

My son is eight, diagnosed as an autism spectrum child, and has issues
dealing
with appropriate boundaries and anger. But I have never been faced
with any
situation that warranted spanking. If I tell my child he cannot hit
other children, how
in the world can I hit him and not be a hypocrite?

Physical violence is always a poor parenting solution, IMHO. Sorry.

dragon

Dom wrote:
I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn,
and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do
anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery,
punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement,
and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in resisting
our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits.

Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a
child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break
his spirit?

This has been highlighted after attempting speech therapy, and wasting
an entire 1 hour assesment, because he would not attempt the
activities.

Dom.


I would recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-Lif...38240&sr= 8-1

That book is going to give you a new outlook on what you are trying to
accomplish with discipline and why. Some tools and techniques are discussed.

This following book is terrific. It has a lot of tools to put in your
toolbox.

http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Limits...38278&sr= 1-1

The latter author has a book specifically about strong willed children in a
similar title. I don't have one of those, so I never got it.

One comment I would like to make is that you may need to adjust your mental
position. You don't really want "compliance." You want your life lessons to
be taught, and you want a peaceful family environment. In My Opinion (which
I can never add humble to), wanting your children to do what you say, when
you say it, because you said it, is not a valuable thing to desire, and in
many cases won't work anyway.

If you look at discipline in a new manner, as the first book will help you
do, you will see that some of the stuff that you have been requiring is
possibly negotiable. Start negotiating! Learn and teach the problem solving
skills. The conflicts that are occuring with yoru child are PERFECT little
laboratories for problem solving skill practice. The latter book will give
you skills to handle the non-negotiable items that ae based on safety,
*core* family values and stuff like that.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-...3438525&sr=1-2

This book is also fantastic.

When you look at your child and see a "stubborn" child, remember that this
trait can serve him well in later years. If he is raised to be of right
mind, he will not easily be swayed by peer pressure, for example.

Best of luck.

Beliavsky wrote:
On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote:
I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn,
and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do
anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery,
punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement,
and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in
resisting our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits.

Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a
child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break
his spirit?

You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have
ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for
severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. Some research
supporting this belief is at http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/ .



This strikes me as a *particulary* bad idea for a stubborn child.

Beliavsky wrote:
On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote:
I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn,
and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do
anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery,
punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement,
and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in
resisting our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits.

Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a
child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break
his spirit?

You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have
ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for
severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. Some research
supporting this belief is at http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/ .




I would ask myself, if my child were severly misbehaving... WHY? Children
are not born with a desire to be jerks. I would not think that smacking them
would get to the root of whatever the problem is that is causing the severe
misbehavior. My guess is that his will is being too vigorously thwarted.

Beliavsky wrote:
On Feb 19, 7:09 am, enigma wrote:
Beliavsky wrote

oups.com:

On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote:
Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have
never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more
compliant, but not break his spirit?

You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it
seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive
spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad
long-term consequences.

i don't think you think much at all. you form an opinion &
then look for *anything* that supports your opinion, even if
you have to deliberately misread it to validate your thoughts.
the OPs child is not severely misbehaving, he's *stubborn*.
there's a huge difference.

I guess thinking differently from you is the same as not thinking at
all. Are there any situations where you think spanking is justified?

What does "justified" mean in this context? Why would you want to justify
hitting yoru child? There are better ways to teach a small person.

enigma wrote:
Beliavsky wrote in

oups.com:

On Feb 19, 7:09 am, enigma wrote:
Beliavsky wrote

glegr oups.com:

On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom
wrote:
Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have
never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him
more compliant, but not break his spirit?

You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it
seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive
spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad
long-term consequences.

i don't think you think much at all. you form an opinion
& then look for *anything* that supports your opinion,
even if you have to deliberately misread it to validate
your thoughts. the OPs child is not severely misbehaving,
he's *stubborn*. there's a huge difference.

I guess thinking differently from you is the same as not
thinking at all. Are there any situations where you think
spanking is justified?

my son is 7.5 years old and i can honestly say that there has
never been a situation where i felt the need to spank him. he
is not the most compliant child & he has autistic tendancies,
which can be more than slightly annoying. but hit him? nope.
there are always better & easier solutions than a smack.
lee


My son is NOT compliant. FAR from it. And if you teach him the how, why,
what of behavior, you wind up with someone whose behavior does not need to
be maintained with punishment but a person with genuine empathy and caring.
You wind up with a person who is responsible on their own. Someone who can
make good decisions on their own. Obviously not every time. But the notion
that you are going to teach someone something with hitting has never made
any sense to me. I *remember* what I was thinking when I got spanked. Not
that what I did was wrong, but what was just done to me was wrong. Instead
of learnign the right or wrong and why, I learned not to trust my parents
and to hide from them.

enigma wrote:
Beliavsky wrote in

oups.com:

On Feb 19, 7:09 am, enigma wrote:
Beliavsky wrote

glegr oups.com:

On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom
wrote:
Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have
never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him
more compliant, but not break his spirit?

You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it
seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive
spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad
long-term consequences.

i don't think you think much at all. you form an opinion
& then look for *anything* that supports your opinion,
even if you have to deliberately misread it to validate
your thoughts. the OPs child is not severely misbehaving,
he's *stubborn*. there's a huge difference.

I guess thinking differently from you is the same as not
thinking at all. Are there any situations where you think
spanking is justified?

my son is 7.5 years old and i can honestly say that there has
never been a situation where i felt the need to spank him. he
is not the most compliant child & he has autistic tendancies,
which can be more than slightly annoying. but hit him? nope.
there are always better & easier solutions than a smack.
lee

PS. I agree with you. Lest you think my little rant was directed at you.

Penny Gaines wrote:
Beliavsky wrote:
On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote:
I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn,
and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do
anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery,
punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement,
and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in
resisting our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits.

Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a
child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not
break his spirit?

You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have
ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for
severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. Some
research supporting this belief is at
http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/ .
[snip]

OTOH, there is a certain temperament which would respond to a spanking
by saying "that didn't hurt". I think it tends to go with
stubborness.
I think most of the advice the OP has had is spot on. With a stubborn
child, you have to decide what matters to you and really enforce that.
With the things that you aren't willing to have an hour-long tantrum
over, you don't even make an issue to begin with.



You can also get in touch with your inner jollies. I remember from "How to
Talk So Kids Will Listen"... about the tantrum that comes from not beiong
able to have something even when reason is on your side. It goes something
like
child: I want Alphabits.
Mom: We don't have any. Do you want Wheaties (I am making these up.)
child:I WANT ALPHABITS.

Mom has a choice here. She can sit there and argue that she doesnt hav any
and jesum crow just suck it up kid. Or one that works so well, empathize
with the child. I know you want Alphabits So Badly. MAAN I wish we had a
box. I wish we had two boxes. I wish we had a whole KITCHEN. The whole state
FILLED with Alphabits. Or maybe the whole Planet! Giggling ensues. Child
explains the utter foolishness of a planet covered in Alphabits. Wheaties
are cheerfully eaten.



As far as the speech therapy appointment goes, I wouldn't start trying
to get the boy to agree to be good before hand. I might talk about
the appointment by saying what I was going to do - "I'm going to say
'hello', do you think she'll say 'hello' back?"

What I have found is that eventually they will realise that if you
always stick to what you say, they will give in sooner. This takes
*years* of consistancy.


Consitency is hard. But it is mandatory. Mean what you say and say what you
mean. That means if you blew it and said something stupid, you honor what
you said. It is a really good investment because over time your children
know that you mean what you say and don't test.

It is WAAAAAY smarter to say yes IMO whenever you can as well. Oft times we
say No to our kids for no super good reason.

In article , Stephanie says...


One comment I would like to make is that you may need to adjust your mental
position. You don't really want "compliance." You want your life lessons to
be taught, and you want a peaceful family environment.

*So* well put. And I love the emphasis on problem-solving, rather than
compliance.

::snip::


When you look at your child and see a "stubborn" child, remember that this
trait can serve him well in later years. If he is raised to be of right
mind, he will not easily be swayed by peer pressure, for example.


Exactly. A compliant child may be just a people-pleaser, a follower. Not that
we don't need followers (takes all kinds etc. etc.), but it's best to value the
stubborness rather than fight it. It's the only thing that works, anyway.

Banty

When he does give in without a big fight, make sure you reward him for
that. As Erika pointed out, when you draw your line in the sand, you
can't let him cross it. But you can also make it worthwhile for him to
not want to cross it, as well.

I highly recommend paying attention to this, I've noticed with my own
son (also 4), that I'll get much better behaviour from him if what I
might see as neutral, "a given", etc. positively. So if he gets in his
car seat without a fuss, I praise him, same with other little things.
After doing this for a while, I tend to forget and not do this and I'll
notice I deterioration in other behaviour, he might still be getting in
the car seat fine, but I've obviously given up being positive about that
too soon, so I go back to being positive about all the little things and
other behaviour improves.

I have a suspicion with the speech therapy you and maybe the therapist
too, expected too much. They should have strategies up their sleeves for
when children don't comply in the easiest/quickest way. So they might
have a microphone set up with a speaker in another room and they can
give the parents instructions and then withdraw, leaving the parents to
play with the child, whilst trying to fit in the conversation to get the
results the therapist needs.

Cheers
Anne