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  #1  
Old April 8th 05, 02:37 PM
Scott
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Default Shoelaces


What's the age record for not being able to tie shoelaces?
I'm just wondering if DS is going to set it

It's really interesting to watch -- DD had a friend who
*had* to be able to tie her shoes, and she accomplished
it at age 2. DS could not care less about this skill.
So his shoes are all slip-ons, except for his new soccer
shoes (size 5-1/2 already at age 9!)

Maybe this is a good lesson for a rainy afternoon -- I'll
sit him down and we'll learn to tie knots!


Scott DD 11 and DS 9

  #2  
Old April 8th 05, 05:13 PM
dragonlady
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In article ,
Scott wrote:

What's the age record for not being able to tie shoelaces?
I'm just wondering if DS is going to set it

It's really interesting to watch -- DD had a friend who
*had* to be able to tie her shoes, and she accomplished
it at age 2. DS could not care less about this skill.
So his shoes are all slip-ons, except for his new soccer
shoes (size 5-1/2 already at age 9!)

Maybe this is a good lesson for a rainy afternoon -- I'll
sit him down and we'll learn to tie knots!


Scott DD 11 and DS 9


This is a skill that has to be directly taught, not something kids
figure out on their own. At least, I've never heard of a kid figuring
it out on their own.

So if he can't do it at 9, in the absence of some evidence that he has
some sort of physical or mental problem, it's most likely that he just
hasn't been taught, doesn't care, and has not had to learn for his own
survival.

Now that he has one pair of shoes that ties, I'd say, yes, it's time to
just sit him down and teach him to tie his own shoes. It's unlikely to
take long. If you turn it into an opportunity to learn other knots as
well, it might be fun. I couldn't do that without a book (I just don't
know very many knots) but it might be fun to get a book on knots, and
sit down with him and the book and fugure out together how to tie all
kinds of knots.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #3  
Old April 8th 05, 06:26 PM
Scott
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Default

dragonlady wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:


What's the age record for not being able to tie shoelaces?
I'm just wondering if DS is going to set it

It's really interesting to watch -- DD had a friend who
*had* to be able to tie her shoes, and she accomplished
it at age 2. DS could not care less about this skill.
So his shoes are all slip-ons, except for his new soccer
shoes (size 5-1/2 already at age 9!)

Maybe this is a good lesson for a rainy afternoon -- I'll
sit him down and we'll learn to tie knots!


Scott DD 11 and DS 9



This is a skill that has to be directly taught, not something kids
figure out on their own. At least, I've never heard of a kid figuring
it out on their own.

So if he can't do it at 9, in the absence of some evidence that he has
some sort of physical or mental problem, it's most likely that he just
hasn't been taught, doesn't care, and has not had to learn for his own
survival.


Oh, a large part of it is parental laziness , and that
he doesn't care. DS is very much an I-don't-try-new-things-
unless-pushed kind of kid, and this isn't something we've
pushed.


Now that he has one pair of shoes that ties, I'd say, yes, it's time to
just sit him down and teach him to tie his own shoes. It's unlikely to
take long. If you turn it into an opportunity to learn other knots as
well, it might be fun. I couldn't do that without a book (I just don't
know very many knots) but it might be fun to get a book on knots, and
sit down with him and the book and fugure out together how to tie all
kinds of knots.


I'm trying to think of the knots I remember from Boy
Scouts. A square knot, two half-hitches, and a bowline
are the extent of my repertoire. And a hangman's noose.
I could easily see DS getting into knot-tying, so I
think when we finally do carve out some time to get him
to learn this, it'll be easy enough.

scott DD 11 and DS 9

  #4  
Old April 8th 05, 06:29 PM
Kevin Karplus
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Default

On 2005-04-08, Scott wrote:

What's the age record for not being able to tie shoelaces?
I'm just wondering if DS is going to set it

It's really interesting to watch -- DD had a friend who
*had* to be able to tie her shoes, and she accomplished
it at age 2. DS could not care less about this skill.
So his shoes are all slip-ons, except for his new soccer
shoes (size 5-1/2 already at age 9!)


With the prevalence of elastic and velcro shoes these days, a lot of
nine-year olds have not yet bothered to learn to tie shoelaces.

Maybe this is a good lesson for a rainy afternoon -- I'll
sit him down and we'll learn to tie knots!




------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

  #5  
Old April 8th 05, 09:22 PM
Dawn
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Default


Scott wrote:
What's the age record for not being able to tie shoelaces?
I'm just wondering if DS is going to set it


An 46 year old friend of mine recently told me that he has just learned
he has been tying his shoes wrong his whole life. He never understood
why his would untie so often -- he was skipping the initial knot. So I
think the record is safely out of reach for your son!

It's really interesting to watch -- DD had a friend who
*had* to be able to tie her shoes, and she accomplished
it at age 2. DS could not care less about this skill.
So his shoes are all slip-ons, except for his new soccer
shoes (size 5-1/2 already at age 9!)


Sports will probably make this a "must" at some point for him -- if
not, middle school gym class should do it. BTW, Henry is in a 12 at
age 12...

Maybe this is a good lesson for a rainy afternoon -- I'll
sit him down and we'll learn to tie knots!


He may be too old for this, but I still sometimes use the "bunny ear"
approach -- tie a simple underhand knot and then fashion two "bunny
ear" loops, and tie those in a second underhand knot. I find this
actually holds better than the traditional way.

-Dawn

  #6  
Old April 9th 05, 12:09 AM
Kevin Karplus
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Default

On 2005-04-08, Dawn wrote:
An 46 year old friend of mine recently told me that he has just learned
he has been tying his shoes wrong his whole life. He never understood
why his would untie so often -- he was skipping the initial knot. So I
think the record is safely out of reach for your son!

....
He may be too old for this, but I still sometimes use the "bunny ear"
approach -- tie a simple underhand knot and then fashion two "bunny
ear" loops, and tie those in a second underhand knot. I find this
actually holds better than the traditional way.


If you want an easy-to-use, unlikely-to-slip way to tie shoes, I
recommend the method in
http://www.becomingtheparent.com/all/subsection15.html

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

  #7  
Old April 11th 05, 04:11 AM
Jeff
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Default


"Scott" wrote in message
...
dragonlady wrote:

(...)


Oh, a large part of it is parental laziness , and that
he doesn't care. DS is very much an I-don't-try-new-things-
unless-pushed kind of kid, and this isn't something we've
pushed.


I would think not pushing it is a good idea. There are more important things
to push until there was a reason why he had to tie shoes (soccer). Better to
push in other skills that he needed at the time.

I used to think that parents were lazy for not pushing shoe-tying, until I
saw a kid who gained indepenence wearing sneakers with velcro.

Jeff

  #8  
Old April 11th 05, 06:28 PM
Tamex
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Default

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:22:45 EDT, "Dawn" wrote:


He may be too old for this, but I still sometimes use the "bunny ear"
approach -- tie a simple underhand knot and then fashion two "bunny
ear" loops, and tie those in a second underhand knot. I find this
actually holds better than the traditional way.


My family calls this the "Mr. Rogers method". I learned to tie my
shoes in the traditional manner, but my younger sister was having
trouble learning how (this, of course, was back when you were tested
on shoe-tying ability to enter kindergarten). Apparently, my mother
saw Mr. Rogers teaching how to tie shoes on one of his shows, and he
used that method. That clicked with my sister, and she still ties her
shoes that way to this day. My daughter also had trouble learning to
tie shoes, but she picked up the Mr. Rogers method right away and
still uses it at age 8. No reason to tie the other way.

If you watch the opening of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, though, you will
notice that when he puts on his sneakers, he ties them in the
traditional manner. He just presented the other method as easier for
kids to learn.
--
Tamex

No matter how much Jell-o you put in the pool, you still can't walk on water.

**remove Tricky Dick to reply by e-mail**

  #9  
Old April 11th 05, 09:08 PM
Robyn Kozierok
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Default

In article ,
Tamex wrote:

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:22:45 EDT, "Dawn" wrote:

He may be too old for this, but I still sometimes use the "bunny ear"
approach -- tie a simple underhand knot and then fashion two "bunny
ear" loops, and tie those in a second underhand knot. I find this
actually holds better than the traditional way.


My family calls this the "Mr. Rogers method". I learned to tie my
shoes in the traditional manner, but my younger sister was having
trouble learning how (this, of course, was back when you were tested
on shoe-tying ability to enter kindergarten). Apparently, my mother
saw Mr. Rogers teaching how to tie shoes on one of his shows, and he
used that method. That clicked with my sister, and she still ties her
shoes that way to this day. My daughter also had trouble learning to
tie shoes, but she picked up the Mr. Rogers method right away and
still uses it at age 8. No reason to tie the other way.


Although I tie my own shoes the "traditional" way, I've never used any
method other than the bunny ears / Mr. Rogers method to teach a child
to tie shoes. It is way easier to teach! My friend taught me that way
when I was in preschool, so I was at most four years old. (I don't
know when I switched to the traditional method.) My oldest learned to
tie shoes at 4yo also, but I am grateful for velcro with my youngest
(now 4yo), whom I couldn't even imagine tying shoes yet!

Even my oldest, who learned at four, still isn't that great at tying
shoes tightly at 11yo! I think this is partly due to having had so
many alternatives to tie shoes over the intervening years. Not only
velcro, but slip-ons (we only did slip-ons once for running shoes, as I
don't feel that they hold the foot securely enough, but they do use
slip-ons for indoor shoes at school during the winter), sandals, winter
boots, rain boots, etc. Also there is a "culture" of untied or loosely
tied shoes, where the kids would try to slide in an out of tied shoes
without untying and re-tying them. It's partly laziness, but partly
that it is harder than it ought to be for many kids, due to lack of
experience, which sort of gets them into a vicious cycle.

Soccer shoes and hiking boots are the only shoes that regularly
get tied properly

--Robyn

  #10  
Old April 12th 05, 02:48 AM
Tracey
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"Scott" wrote in message
...

What's the age record for not being able to tie shoelaces?
I'm just wondering if DS is going to set it


My DD is 8 1/2 and still can't do it :-( I suppose it is worth mentioning
that she is a kid that goes to OT for a myriad of sensory issues, and
learning to tie her shoes is one of her next goals to work on. She knows
the technique for tying, she just can't get them tied tight enough that they
don't untie instantly. Other times she gets so frustrated by trying to get
the loops the right size that she just loses it.

She wears slip on and velcro shoes and buckle shoes. On the one pair of
shoes she had that required laces, I bought those curly shoe laces that just
need to be pulled on to tighten them up. Its really not a big deal for her
(or me) because there are lots of styles of shoes available now that don't
require tying...Lands End has a lot of styles, and her current sneakers are
a Nike pair with elastic things criss-crossing over the tongue of the shoes
that make slipping them on and off a breeze.

 




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