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help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)



 
 
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  #111  
Old July 23rd 03, 05:19 AM
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

Betsy wrote:

Okay, I HAVE been abused. I have to say that I agree with what
these folks are saying to the extent of ignoring it. As my mother
once had a T-shirt that said, "Don't let the *******s get you
down." YOU have the power to not read the posts.


I never said it was your fault. You read that into it.


oh. I guess that is what I am used to hearing from some of the longtime
regulars here. I just took a trip down memory lane on google.com (the
newsgroup archive that goes back years and years of everything we post
online) and I read with horror how most of the time that I have posted here
I have been ganged up on by some real jerks that used to post here who
pretty much were a "clique" and labeled me the dysfunctional group
scapegoat. It's a role I am used to as I was the family scapegoat, my
family was very abusive and I was the threat, I was the one who kept
pointing it out and I was the one who made my mom do something about it. No
wonder she hates me. So I have this thing about being told to keep quiet or
to ignore anything resembling abuse or injustice. Even though in most
cases ignoring is the most effective way to deal with bullying or "trolling"
behavior.

My YWCA advocate is funny. She said, "never wrestle with pigs. You get
dirty and the pigs like it."

Basically,
however you control your reaction to it.


The root of the serenity prayer. I get it.

I don't think anything I
say will make a difference. You have your belief system. I hope it
works for you. I was sharing what works for me. Good Luck

Betsy


Thank you for your persistence with me. you are brave, LOL.




  #112  
Old July 23rd 03, 06:01 AM
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

Laura wrote:

Lorian, I'm sorry things have gotten to this point. Both you and your
son are clearly suffering a great deal. I think it's a very good thing
that you're working with the foster care system to find a stable home
for him. That seems the best solution in the short term given your
resources and his age. Some distance between you two will allow you
both to get your equilibrium back and figure out what to do with the
assistance of neutral counselors. I hope that you can spend some time
tending to your own needs and he, separately, can be helped with the
tremendous issues he must be facing. Peace to you both.

lm


Hi Laura,

I haven't talked to you in so long, I wish it were under better
circumstances, thank you for your words of hope and peace.




  #113  
Old July 23rd 03, 06:24 AM
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

Betsy wrote:
I suppose I shall discover in time, if this is going to continue.
One never knows when another may begin the change needed. I have
done what I can, and will let time tell the rest. I have learned,
the hard way, not to invest too much of myself 'saving' other
people. I share my story(ies) and what worked for me. Where I am
now, is miles from where I was 12 years ago. It took 12 years to get
here, but I am here. I can only act as a guide to those willing to
accept guidance. No more need be said. Or rather, I will say no
more.


what are you talking to HIM for? I have already admitted to needing to
change, Paul is in denial and clearly abusive calling me looney lorain on
here all the time yet insisting that he is doing nothing wrong, don't talk
to him about how hard you have it convincing me that I need to change. That
ruins your credibility. Otherwise, I do take your words to heart and
appreciate your efforts to help me and my son, and I love your .sig lines,
they are funny.


  #114  
Old July 23rd 03, 06:40 AM
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

Paul Fritz wrote:
Being a victim is how looney validates her pathetic existence. Being
a victim allows her to avoid the responsibilites of day to day life.
Being a victim allows her to place blame everywhere except where it
is deserved.


I am not a victim, I am a survivor.

You, however, are a predator and you sit here and make fun of my disability
day in and day out no matter who calls you on it because you have no
integrity and you just look foolish and childish and:

being an offender is how Paul validates his pathetic existence.
being an offender is how Paul allows himself to avoid the responsibilities
of day to day life.
being an offender allows Paul to place blame everywhere except where it is
deserved, squarely in his own head and in his own mouth and in his own hands
at his own keyboard.


  #115  
Old July 23rd 03, 10:23 AM
Betsy
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

In news:[email protected],
typed:
Betsy wrote:

Okay, I HAVE been abused. I have to say that I agree with what
these folks are saying to the extent of ignoring it. As my mother
once had a T-shirt that said, "Don't let the *******s get you
down." YOU have the power to not read the posts.


I never said it was your fault. You read that into it.


oh. I guess that is what I am used to hearing from some of the
longtime regulars here. I just took a trip down memory lane on
google.com (the newsgroup archive that goes back years and years of
everything we post online) and I read with horror how most of the
time that I have posted here I have been ganged up on by some real
jerks that used to post here who pretty much were a "clique" and
labeled me the dysfunctional group scapegoat. It's a role I am used
to as I was the family scapegoat, my family was very abusive and I
was the threat, I was the one who kept pointing it out and I was the
one who made my mom do something about it. No wonder she hates me.
So I have this thing about being told to keep quiet or to ignore
anything resembling abuse or injustice. Even though in most cases
ignoring is the most effective way to deal with bullying or
"trolling" behavior.

My YWCA advocate is funny. She said, "never wrestle with pigs. You
get dirty and the pigs like it."

Basically,
however you control your reaction to it.


The root of the serenity prayer. I get it.

I don't think anything I
say will make a difference. You have your belief system. I hope it
works for you. I was sharing what works for me. Good Luck

Betsy


Thank you for your persistence with me. you are brave, LOL.



Brave? I think not. Stubborn, I would definitely agree with that one. I
am persistent. If I feel there is value in something, I keep at it. If
someone seems to be listening, I keep talking. When they shut down, I shut
up. It's how I am. It stems from being a Hospice nurse, I suppose. And
no, not ALL nurses are co-dependent. I am a very strong willed, assertive
person. I scare most men away, which is probably why I haven't had a date
in years. I really hope things work out for you.

Betsy
--
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with
ketchup.


  #116  
Old July 23rd 03, 10:57 AM
Cele
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:26:51 +0100, "Dennis Here"
youreply wrote:


Cele wrote in message ...

snip the flattery

Meanwhile, on the one hand, I agree that 'freeing' her son to go might
be the making of him. Many a youth has left a home out of control, and
found out a lot about themselves and life by going to the street for
awhile, and come back the wiser and stronger for it.

On the other hand, I totally identify with Lorian's fear of seeing him
follow that path. Your own reference to your friends who died tells us
that the street is not a place that all escape unscathed, and a
sixteen year old who has become badly confused and enraged might well
have experiences that do him great damage. It's as likely as his
having experiences that strengthen him.

The solution seems to be to 'let him go' but to seek a healthy place
to go to. Lorian appears to be doing that, within the limits of her
resources. I suspect that before a whole lot longer he'll decide the
matter himself, because gone seventeen, it's pretty hard to keep them
if they don't want to stay. And I hope earnestly for both of their
sakes that the choices he makes turn out in the end to help rather
than hurt his growth.



Well there is a good balanced post that weighs up the pro's and con's either
way. The trouble is that it will not make one iota of difference to him.
What I was trying to get across is how Lorians son is probably feeling
rather than how Lorian herself sees it. With that in mind it becomes either
a question of, despite what maybe out there, letting him go without burning
too many bridges. Sometimes a young man just has to get out there and see
for himself.


Yeah, I see that, for sure.

Even when they're NOT giving you a bucketload of grief, they're going
to eventually have to sod off and find out on their own, aren't they?
I'm currently the proud parent of an eighteen year old who finished
her first year of college and then took off for home (the north, where
we used to live) directly, and is now working, shacked up with a
tolerably acceptable boyfriend, and registered for college in the
fall. I'm not supporting her financially 'cause I'm too broke, so
she's kind of making her way, with a bit of help from her Dad and a
lot of help from scholarships she's earned.

I wish she wasn't shacked up with her boyfriend and I wish she was
here, but well, you know, they're going to find things out for
themselves. Could be worse. She could be shacked up under the bridge
and doing crack, she could be sleeping with multiple guys and taking
masses of risks. Gotta let 'em go.

Anyway. Talk about off track. You've got good points.

Take care.

Cele
  #117  
Old July 23rd 03, 11:04 AM
Cele
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:19:04 GMT, wrote:

My YWCA advocate is funny. She said, "never wrestle with pigs. You get
dirty and the pigs like it."


YES!!!!!! I LOVE that! Bingo!


Basically,
however you control your reaction to it.


The root of the serenity prayer. I get it.


Right. Exactly.

Cele
  #118  
Old July 23rd 03, 11:14 AM
Cele
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:20:36 GMT, wrote:

Cele wrote:
I don't think you can expect much from 'the system'.


What? Oh, Nooooo!

I'm screwed. LOL.


Heh.

Whatever's gone wrong before is over, it's written, it's
done. You can't affect it. Walk away from it. Work on the now. It's
all you can do. For him and for yourself.

And be well.


What is it with people who can not see that history repeats itself unless
you actively seek to stop the cycles?


Lotta ways to stop a cycle, though. Participating by fighting back is
still participating. It enables abusers. Gives 'em something to abuse.
Only way to stop an abuser is to remove the object of abuse, near as I
can tell. But what do I know? :-)

I've been in therapy so much that it
is just so clear to me that my son saw me be abused as a child so that is
what was role modeled for him and now he is acting that out as he becomes a
man. Also, he is reacting to me as I only know how to live with a man from
a victim's stand point, I have lots of male friends that I keep at a
distance but living with one is a different story.


Sounds about right.

You can't just "let it
go" or "forget about it" or "put it in the past" abuse isn't like that.


Didn't say that. Said you can't *affect* the past. You can only
*affect* the future. So that's what you do.

History isn't like that. Time isn't like that. If only it were that
simple. But it isn't, it is very convoluted.


It doesn't matter what history's like. It's a textbook. You can read
it and learn, or not, but you can't change it. So read, learn, change
the future. What else is there?

The rest of your post was
right on, depressing though, as I was really hoping "the system" was going
to save us. damn.


Well, should I turn out to be wrong, do let me know. I wouldn't mind
saving here, either. LOL

Cele
  #119  
Old July 23rd 03, 12:52 PM
Rolly The Pervert
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)


wrote in message news:[email protected]
Betsy wrote:
I suppose I shall discover in time, if this is going to continue.
One never knows when another may begin the change needed. I have
done what I can, and will let time tell the rest. I have learned,
the hard way, not to invest too much of myself 'saving' other
people. I share my story(ies) and what worked for me. Where I am
now, is miles from where I was 12 years ago. It took 12 years to get
here, but I am here. I can only act as a guide to those willing to
accept guidance. No more need be said. Or rather, I will say no
more.



change, Paul is in denial and clearly abusive calling me looney lorain on
here all the time yet insisting that he is doing nothing wrong, don't talk
to him


LOL
get a grip looney




  #120  
Old July 23rd 03, 12:53 PM
Rolly The Pervert
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Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)


"Betsy" wrote in message
. com...
In news:[email protected],
typed:
Betsy wrote:
I suppose I shall discover in time, if this is going to continue.
One never knows when another may begin the change needed. I have
done what I can, and will let time tell the rest. I have learned,
the hard way, not to invest too much of myself 'saving' other
people. I share my story(ies) and what worked for me. Where I am
now, is miles from where I was 12 years ago. It took 12 years to get
here, but I am here. I can only act as a guide to those willing to
accept guidance. No more need be said. Or rather, I will say no
more.


what are you talking to HIM for? I have already admitted to needing
to change, Paul is in denial and clearly abusive calling me looney
lorain on here all the time yet insisting that he is doing nothing
wrong, don't talk to him about how hard you have it convincing me
that I need to change. That ruins your credibility. Otherwise, I do
take your words to heart and appreciate your efforts to help me and
my son, and I love your .sig lines, they are funny.


OK, first off, I am free to talk to whomever I choose. Whether you like

it
or not, whether my son likes it or not, whether my mother likes it or not.
It's called free choice, and it's a God given gift. Secondly, I am simply
letting these folks know, that while they disagree with me on whether or

not
you will change, I (being relatively new here) am going to try. They are
trying to dissuade me, by telling me I am wasting my time. I am telling

him
(Paul) in essence, it's my time, I choose how to spend it. If you find it
ruins my credibility, then I wasn't very credible in your eyes to begin
with. Sometimes things happen that you don't like, that don't affect you
directly, that aren't aimed at you, and you don't like them. Get over it,
move on, don't let it bother you. If I got upset everytime on of my
co-workers I respected spoke to one of my co-workers I didn't like, I

would
spend my entired work day upset. It's not worth it.



Heh no ****.

Again, I like your tolerance and patience, it's more then i seem to be able
to muster for some

Betsy
--
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with
ketchup.




 




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