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On the subject of excruciatingly difficult kids whom we love



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 17th 04, 10:05 AM
Cele
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Posts: n/a
Default On the subject of excruciatingly difficult kids whom we love

Well, call me lazy, but I've only read some of the thread.

Joelle, I think you're making sense.

Bebe, I know you know, but Joelle's not on your ass, okay? She's not
really even talking to or about you. Your experiences are totally in
the picture, they count, and they've got something to offer, but you
need to lose the defensiveness. Joelle can get up your neck, but she's
not malicious. She's sincere and she does make sense.

Joelle, you're not the only one, I guarantee you. Quite a few of us
have been through agonising depression and medication and grief and
bereavement and pain with our kids. It's a bit minimising of that to
have you say you're the only one, IMO. Still, you make a ton of sense,
as you often do.

Sly, here's the thing:

You're gonna get tons of advice. You're gonna get even more judgement.
Everyone figures they know, and some of them do, but none of them do.
Bottom line: you've got to go with your gut. And even, subterranean,
bottom line: you've got to stay with it, thick or thin, no matter
what. Because the staying with it, however imperfectly, and however
hard, is the thing. It's what matters in the end.

Mine kicked in the door one time, after we agreed, in a rational
moment, that when she lost the plot I should lock her into her
bedroom. Another time, I nailed the window shut. Had to borrow a
ladder to do it. Can't tell you how many times I had her in holds - to
keep her from the razor blades, to keep her from the window - to keep
her from who she thought she was. Ever heard the P!NK song, 'I'm a
Hazard to Myself'? That was her theme song. Had her in holds on the
floor long past where any professional (which I am) would've tried a
one person hold. Called the cops one time when she lasted longer than
I did. Sat on the floor of her friend's house and refused to leave for
five hours one time, when she ran and I wouldn't give up. Spent
countless hours in hospital...spent one nasty night in the ICU waiting
to see if the intentional overdose would be a win or lose. Left home
to get her care. Yada, yada, yada.....

She's good now. Not totally healed, but good. Aware. Clear on whose
life it is, and who's in charge of it. Clear on who will make it or
break it. And when she decides to talk about it, which isn't often,
there's this one refrain....

'You stayed with me. You stuck it out.' I've said, "You'll never get
rid of me. You think that stunt will run me off? Dream on. I'm a
limpet. You're never gonna run me off. I'm your mother and you can't
run off your mother. We're like crazy glue. We're like a bad penny. No
matter what you do, I'm gonna be around. So quit trying." And she
heard me..through all of it, she heard me. She knew I was there.

If I could give you anything, it would be heart and strength and
courage and everything else you need, just to hang on to the precipice
when it feels like you're going over, because that's what they need,
and that's ultimately what we can give.

And eventually, they know what you did. They really do. They know you
hung in there, they know you gave a crap, they know you were alive
with them, and that's what they needed, to find their own lives. It's
excruciatingly, agonizingly, desperately hard. But it's worth it, it's
possible, and it's what you can do. So hang in there. Platitude number
six is available to your right. (platitude #6 says: take care of
yourself, find time for yourself, don't beat yourself up, yada yada
yada, like you have control, right?) But hard as it is, know it's
worth it, and know you can.

Joelle has.

I have.

Bebe has.

Others have.

You can.

Be well.

Cele


  #2  
Old September 17th 04, 10:19 AM
Bebelestrnge0721
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Posts: n/a
Default

Subject: On the subject of excruciatingly difficult kids whom we love
From: Cele
Date: 9/17/2004 5:05 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Well, call me lazy, but I've only read some of the thread.

Joelle, I think you're making sense.

Bebe, I know you know, but Joelle's not on your ass, okay? She's not
really even talking to or about you. Your experiences are totally in
the picture, they count, and they've got something to offer, but you
need to lose the defensiveness. Joelle can get up your neck, but she's
not malicious. She's sincere and she does make sense.

Joelle, you're not the only one, I guarantee you. Quite a few of us
have been through agonising depression and medication and grief and
bereavement and pain with our kids. It's a bit minimising of that to
have you say you're the only one, IMO. Still, you make a ton of sense,
as you often do.

Sly, here's the thing:

You're gonna get tons of advice. You're gonna get even more judgement.
Everyone figures they know, and some of them do, but none of them do.
Bottom line: you've got to go with your gut. And even, subterranean,
bottom line: you've got to stay with it, thick or thin, no matter
what. Because the staying with it, however imperfectly, and however
hard, is the thing. It's what matters in the end.

Mine kicked in the door one time, after we agreed, in a rational
moment, that when she lost the plot I should lock her into her
bedroom. Another time, I nailed the window shut. Had to borrow a
ladder to do it. Can't tell you how many times I had her in holds - to
keep her from the razor blades, to keep her from the window - to keep
her from who she thought she was. Ever heard the P!NK song, 'I'm a
Hazard to Myself'? That was her theme song. Had her in holds on the
floor long past where any professional (which I am) would've tried a
one person hold. Called the cops one time when she lasted longer than
I did. Sat on the floor of her friend's house and refused to leave for
five hours one time, when she ran and I wouldn't give up. Spent
countless hours in hospital...spent one nasty night in the ICU waiting
to see if the intentional overdose would be a win or lose. Left home
to get her care. Yada, yada, yada.....

She's good now. Not totally healed, but good. Aware. Clear on whose
life it is, and who's in charge of it. Clear on who will make it or
break it. And when she decides to talk about it, which isn't often,
there's this one refrain....

'You stayed with me. You stuck it out.' I've said, "You'll never get
rid of me. You think that stunt will run me off? Dream on. I'm a
limpet. You're never gonna run me off. I'm your mother and you can't
run off your mother. We're like crazy glue. We're like a bad penny. No
matter what you do, I'm gonna be around. So quit trying." And she
heard me..through all of it, she heard me. She knew I was there.

If I could give you anything, it would be heart and strength and
courage and everything else you need, just to hang on to the precipice
when it feels like you're going over, because that's what they need,
and that's ultimately what we can give.

And eventually, they know what you did. They really do. They know you
hung in there, they know you gave a crap, they know you were alive
with them, and that's what they needed, to find their own lives. It's
excruciatingly, agonizingly, desperately hard. But it's worth it, it's
possible, and it's what you can do. So hang in there. Platitude number
six is available to your right. (platitude #6 says: take care of
yourself, find time for yourself, don't beat yourself up, yada yada
yada, like you have control, right?) But hard as it is, know it's
worth it, and know you can.

Joelle has.

I have.

Bebe has.

Others have.

You can.

Be well.

Cele


Cele, You most definately do Know , I 'am' defensive with Joelle, I can only
try to understand her style, in my world she is hard to take, I know it does
not make her all wrong . Your advice to Sly is amazing, I consider this true
compassionate input, I just know there is a nicer way to point out the
possibility the boy may have a problem with the sig. other....and now that Sly
gave us the history there is just not much of a chance that there is any
problem
"there". I still feel Joelle belittled slys ability to know that, and how she
dismisses the unmarried couples sharing in a family, and in parenting in said
families. Thats the bottom line on that.
Bev
  #3  
Old September 17th 04, 01:21 PM
Joelle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quite a few of us
have been through agonising depression and medication and grief and
bereavement and pain with our kids. It's a bit minimising of that to
have you say you're the only one,


Okay, lemme explain again because I'm in no way minimizing anybody's pain and
experience. I overstated the case because I thought it was so ironic that Kit
and my boys were SO similar with the anger and outbursts that don't make sense.
Frankly I've never known anyone to have a kid with quite the problems my son
does. It's just a matter of similarity.

Of course lots of people have difficulties with kids. God knows I'm not the
only one and I'm really lucky because it could have been worse. Although I
have to confess sometimes I used to wish my son had a drug problem, because
then at least I would know what to do.

Lots of people experience grief. But Kate and I know a particular kind of
grief, and even then, it's not the same so some things we can say "I know how
you feel" but other things we have to say "That I don't know or understand"

That's all I meant. God knows I haven't suffered any more, I don't know any
mroe, and I'm not any better than anyone else. Of course i've made mistakes.
In fact, if I do think I'm smart, it's from what I learned from my mistakes.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle
  #4  
Old September 17th 04, 02:01 PM
Joelle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

judgement.
Everyone figures they know, and some of them do, but none of them do.


Some old church lady told me this saying that I found to be full of grace...

"Everyone knows what to do with the crazy lady except the one that keeps her"

I almost made that my sig line.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle
  #5  
Old September 17th 04, 07:46 PM
Paul Griffiths
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Cele" wrote in message
news
Well, call me lazy, but I've only read some of the thread.


Cele, you're lazy. Okay? :-Þ

On a more serious note I'd like to make the following two points to the
universe in general.

1) I doubt there are many kids out there who actually *choose* to be
"difficult".

2) Kids don't have the monopoly on this unconditional love business. Works
for adults too.


--
Paul Griffiths


  #6  
Old September 17th 04, 11:16 PM
Tiffany
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Cele" wrote in message
news
Well, call me lazy, but I've only read some of the thread.

Joelle, I think you're making sense.

Bebe, I know you know, but Joelle's not on your ass, okay? She's not
really even talking to or about you. Your experiences are totally in
the picture, they count, and they've got something to offer, but you
need to lose the defensiveness. Joelle can get up your neck, but she's
not malicious. She's sincere and she does make sense.

Joelle, you're not the only one, I guarantee you. Quite a few of us
have been through agonising depression and medication and grief and
bereavement and pain with our kids. It's a bit minimising of that to
have you say you're the only one, IMO. Still, you make a ton of sense,
as you often do.

Sly, here's the thing:

You're gonna get tons of advice. You're gonna get even more judgement.
Everyone figures they know, and some of them do, but none of them do.
Bottom line: you've got to go with your gut. And even, subterranean,
bottom line: you've got to stay with it, thick or thin, no matter
what. Because the staying with it, however imperfectly, and however
hard, is the thing. It's what matters in the end.

Mine kicked in the door one time, after we agreed, in a rational
moment, that when she lost the plot I should lock her into her
bedroom. Another time, I nailed the window shut. Had to borrow a
ladder to do it. Can't tell you how many times I had her in holds - to
keep her from the razor blades, to keep her from the window - to keep
her from who she thought she was. Ever heard the P!NK song, 'I'm a
Hazard to Myself'? That was her theme song. Had her in holds on the
floor long past where any professional (which I am) would've tried a
one person hold. Called the cops one time when she lasted longer than
I did. Sat on the floor of her friend's house and refused to leave for
five hours one time, when she ran and I wouldn't give up. Spent
countless hours in hospital...spent one nasty night in the ICU waiting
to see if the intentional overdose would be a win or lose. Left home
to get her care. Yada, yada, yada.....

She's good now. Not totally healed, but good. Aware. Clear on whose
life it is, and who's in charge of it. Clear on who will make it or
break it. And when she decides to talk about it, which isn't often,
there's this one refrain....

'You stayed with me. You stuck it out.' I've said, "You'll never get
rid of me. You think that stunt will run me off? Dream on. I'm a
limpet. You're never gonna run me off. I'm your mother and you can't
run off your mother. We're like crazy glue. We're like a bad penny. No
matter what you do, I'm gonna be around. So quit trying." And she
heard me..through all of it, she heard me. She knew I was there.

If I could give you anything, it would be heart and strength and
courage and everything else you need, just to hang on to the precipice
when it feels like you're going over, because that's what they need,
and that's ultimately what we can give.

And eventually, they know what you did. They really do. They know you
hung in there, they know you gave a crap, they know you were alive
with them, and that's what they needed, to find their own lives. It's
excruciatingly, agonizingly, desperately hard. But it's worth it, it's
possible, and it's what you can do. So hang in there. Platitude number
six is available to your right. (platitude #6 says: take care of
yourself, find time for yourself, don't beat yourself up, yada yada
yada, like you have control, right?) But hard as it is, know it's
worth it, and know you can.

Joelle has.

I have.

Bebe has.

Others have.

You can.

Be well.

Cele



Excellent. I need to say this just this one time, as I don't think I have
ever commented on your family situation before. I know it must be hard for
you to time and time again to type that story. It must be like reliving it.
But you do it, to help others. I commend you.

I commend all the women who have survived dramatic situations, you continue
to do the best jobs raising kids that may not been so blessed with another
mother. I see mother's doing great things here. If I were so inclined, I
would write a book. It is awesome to hear about single mothers doing great
things.

I also commend the wonderful single fathers in the group who also have dealt
with much drama. It keeps me grounded to know there are these great single
fathers like Paul, Paul and Dennis. (There are more here, I just don't
recall names.)

OK...... I am going to stop drinking now.

T


  #7  
Old September 17th 04, 11:21 PM
Joelle
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Posts: n/a
Default

OK...... I am going to stop drinking now.


Don't stop now, youre on a roll...;-)
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle
  #8  
Old September 18th 04, 12:31 AM
CME
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Joelle" wrote in message
...
OK...... I am going to stop drinking now.


Don't stop now, youre on a roll...;-)
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle


Ooo I'm off to drink tonight. My neighbour is taking my kids over-night.
How I was ever blessed with that I don't know but yay I get to be amoung
adults and loud country music. Wait, it sounds more like a punishment when
I frame it like that.

Christine
(btw I'm not the biggest fan of country but my gf wants me to meet her new
man so I shall accommodate)


  #9  
Old September 18th 04, 01:28 AM
Paul Griffiths
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Tiffany" wrote in message
...

snip

Excellent. I need to say this just this one time, as I don't think I have
ever commented on your family situation before. I know it must be hard for
you to time and time again to type that story. It must be like reliving

it.
But you do it, to help others. I commend you.


Do you honestly think she gives herself the option not to?

Please not that my opinion on this issue may be slightly biased. :-))

I commend all the women who have survived dramatic situations, you

continue
to do the best jobs raising kids that may not been so blessed with another
mother. I see mother's doing great things here. If I were so inclined, I
would write a book. It is awesome to hear about single mothers doing great
things.


Amen to that.

I also commend the wonderful single fathers in the group who also have

dealt
with much drama. It keeps me grounded to know there are these great single
fathers like Paul, Paul and Dennis. (There are more here, I just don't
recall names.)


Amen to that too.

OK...... I am going to stop drinking now.


Hell no, don't stop on my account. I've just finished a bottle of white
wine all by myself and I'm also in serious need of a hug so a virtual group
one would suit me just fine.


--
Paul Griffiths


  #10  
Old September 18th 04, 01:30 AM
Paul Griffiths
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"CME" wrote in message
newstK2d.67614$XP3.1266@edtnps84...

snip

Ooo I'm off to drink tonight. My neighbour is taking my kids over-night.
How I was ever blessed with that I don't know but yay I get to be amoung
adults and loud country music. Wait, it sounds more like a punishment

when
I frame it like that.


Then don't frame it like that. Easy!

Next problem? :-D

(btw I'm not the biggest fan of country but my gf wants me to meet her new
man so I shall accommodate)


And that's a neat statement of one of the reasons why I like you.


--
Paul Griffiths


 




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