OT - getting out of Jury Duty

In kEdcd.733799$M95.507787@pd7tw1no,
lizzard woman wrote:
*
*I've also got it from good sources that the Amish use up their horses with
*gay abandon, having little concern for taking proper care of them. They tend

Well, living as I do in the Philadelphia suburbs and having attended the
veterinary school at the University of Pennsylvania, I have had some
personal experience with Amish horses and I have had extensive secondhand
experience (by way of friends/colleagues) with them. My personal
experience while on the Field Service with the university was that while
the people were often difficult for me to deal with, they took good care
of the animals. My secondhand experience in the form of stories related to
me by former classmates who now work in Lancaster county as equine
practioners is that the farmers and more particularly the sons of the
farmers are often next to impossible to deal with, but they do call the
vet reasonably promptly, and they do follow instructions, and that while
they are sometimes "underfunded," they do the best they can to provide the
best care for their horses. Of course this does not always make up for the
difficult behavior. My friend B. (a reasonably attractive woman, if I say
so myself ) said she decided to leave her job that she otherwise enjoyed
because of one too many ass-grabbings and breast-fondlings by young
Amishmen sent by their fathers to "assist" her in the emergency treatment
of a horse when she was called to the farm during the night. Then again,
one local small animal practicioner I know actually was driving through
Lancaster a few years back and came across a disabled horse/buggy
situation. She stopped and provided emergency stabilization care while
they waited for the equine practioner. Those people were so grateful they
still invite her every year for a big dinner for some festival thing they
have. She says their animals, which she always visits when she is on their
farm, always look in excellent health.

All of which is to say that at least some Amish folks seem to take
excellent care of their animals, but I guess you probably already knew
that. It would be pretty surprising to me if an entire religious group
uniformly abused their livestock, which after all they depend on for
their livelihood.

--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx

"Nan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:21:24 -0400, "Jeff"
scribbled:
(....)

I have to say, with an attitude like that, I feel really sorry for your
kids.

Why? I might not agree with her opinion, but she's free to raise her
kids to think independently! I hope most parents do.

There is a big difference between independent thinking and disregarding your
duty.

Jeff
Nan

"firedancer623" wrote in message
news:Ygccd.319$TU5.270@trndny06...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
(...)

The jury is supposed to be a jury of your peers. Not people who want to
serve.

I totally understand that. I understand the concept of trying to find a
nice
balance of individuals. However, I dont see why, if someone is adamantly
against serving, they should be allowed to decline that right.

It is not a right to be on a jury.

Rather than something that you have to do, you should think of it as an
honor to serve your country.

Hardly an honor. As stated previously, I am very disenchanted with our
country - the politics, the government, the judicial system. It's of
course
my opinion, but it's how I feel.

And what have you done to improve the situation?
(...)

Jeff

"firedancer623" wrote in message
news:JXecd.655$EL5.354@trndny09...
(...)

At the time, being young parents I guess we were naive about the whole
process. I figured that they knew more than we did, being doctors and all.
When she still wasn't ok the following day

The child could have looked ok one day, and be very sick the next day.

Kids (and adults, but especially kids) are known to get really sick, really
fast.

While it is unfortunate that she was that sick the next day, it does not
mean that the doctors did not (or did) do a good job the previous day.

Of course, part of doing a good job is explaining what to look for so you
know when to bring the child back in.

I didn't want to take her to
either military hospital so we took her to the nearest civilian one, which
was actually closer to us anyway.

Jeff



However, it was free so that was a plus.I'd still rather pay what we do
than
deal with that. It's sad and it shouldn't be that bad. I hope it's
gotten
better since we've gotten out.

It has but I think attitude makes a difference.

Very true. Im just too bitter about it, I know that. For others, it works
great and Im glad.

"lizzard woman" wrote in message
news:roccd.116745$a41.69103@pd7tw2no...
"firedancer623" wrote in message
news:jbccd.637$EL5.596@trndny09...

(snip)

| I do agree that the current selection method is flawed. I know people
| that have been summoned a number of times and those who never have.
| It would be nice if it was more efficient in spreading the burden more
| evenly.
|
|
| Or how about an Amish person? How many Amish people do you know who have
| ever been summoned?

Rabidly religious people who admit they they rely on religion rather than
critical thought and logic are not peers of most people and shouldn't sit
on
juries. Recall that although most people in the US identify themselves
with
one religion or another, they in fact do not use those values in living
their every day life.

Well, at least we won't have to worry about George W. Bush serving on a
jury, then.
--
love,
la mangosteena

"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40% of
poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame,
2004)

"lizzard woman" wrote:

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .

(snip)

| The Amish are no better or worse about taking care of animals than any
| other group of people.

None of what you said proved this point and it is counter to what I've heard
in re the Amish who buy standardbreds (NOT TBs of which I haven't heard a
thing) off the track.

People buy what they have available to them for sale. We had a half
standard bred horse, and he was bought by a non-Amish man who had lost
his driver's license. He used the horse to ride to a bar where he
would tie him up without water or anything - didn't have enough money
to feed him either. It took us a long time to teach him not to be
afraid of men.

| Actually given what I know about treatment of horses at the track,
| they are probably on the whole better. (My SIL was a licensed
| trainer, my niece was an apprentice jockey, and my ds exercised and
| trained horses for the track)

At least they aren't starved or worked to death.

Probably not starved, but run before they are really grown, and
crippled.

When horses go for near
meat prices, it gets ugly.

Most of the horses around here that go for those prices go to the meat
factory. They aren't worked to death, they are just killed. Is that
better?

I repeat that the Amish here take care of their horses - I do not see
starved or lame horses being driven by the Amish.

How much does your source know about horses? Have you actually seen
mistreatment of horses by the Amish yourself? Why do you believe your
source rather than me, who lives in an area with a lot of very well
respected Amish people?



grandma Rosalie

"firedancer623" wrote in message
news:zrVbd.234$UX3.168@trndny03...

"Nan" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:33:48 GMT, "firedancer623"
scribbled:

Is it possible? Any good tips how? I got a questionnaire which basically
qualified me with a note saying something along the lines of "you will
be
summoned within the next year" My husband works 40 miles away, I have no
childcare (all family lives hours away) and all my usual baby sitters
either
work or are in school all day. Oh, and Im still nursing Xander. Right on
the
questionnaire it said that needing childcare, transportation or work
reasons
did not qualify to reject you. What crap!!!

Some states will allow at least a one-time exemption if you're
nursing, but that's not guaranteed.

I really really don't want to serve but if I get summoned, I will do
whatever I can to NOT serve.

How about going to jail? That will guarantee not having to serve for
that term.

I've always wondered about that. Sure I know it's a possibility but I've
never heard of anyone going to jail for refusing.


Please no reponses how it's my duty as a US
citizen, heh, I've wanted to leave this country for years now (can't
convince dh)

Sorry, but it is your duty as long as you're living here. I don't
have much sympathy for anyone that has your attitude about it.

That's fine. It's just one of the many reasons I don't feel our freedom is
really *free*

I don't see how you can say that if you refuse to participate in the legal
system. If it was *your* family member in the defendants chair, would you
want people ducking out of jury duty?

"Circe" wrote in message
news:PYecd.12142$bk1.9699@fed1read05...
Jeff wrote:
"firedancer623" wrote in message
news:jnacd.1229$Ug4.218@trndny01...
"Jeff" wrote in message
...
"firedancer623" wrote in message
news:zrVbd.234$UX3.168@trndny03...
That's fine. It's just one of the many reasons I don't feel our
freedom is really *free*

How said freedom was free?

Well, isn't that how it goes - US - land of the free?

Free means "free to do what you want, like voice your opinion, live
where you want, and go to church if you want."

Er, not to take a position one way or another vis-a-vis jury duty per se,
the OP clearly isn't free to do what she wants if she is forced to go to
jury duty when she'd rather be doing something else. If freedom really
*is*
being free to do what you want (I don't think that's a very good
definition,
personally, but never mind), then coerced jury duty abridges said freedom.
(And, incidentally, not allowing people who *want* to do jury duty to
volunteer for it is equally an abridgment of this supposed "freedom to do
what you want".)

Where do you think they get the jury pool ? From registered voters. If you
don't want to get jury duty, don't register to vote. And, then, don't
complain about politics, either.

Where do you think they get the jury pool ? From registered voters. If
you
don't want to get jury duty, don't register to vote. And, then, don't
complain about politics, either.


I am not positive but I believe in NH they get jury members from the DMV
listing. I have known people that got called to warn them that they could
be picked but never did.

Tori

"lizzard woman" wrote in message
news:kEdcd.733799$M95.507787@pd7tw1no...

"Banty" wrote in message
...
| In article roccd.116745$a41.69103@pd7tw2no, lizzard woman says...

(snip)

| Rabidly religious people who admit they they rely on religion rather
than
| critical thought and logic are not peers of most people and shouldn't
sit
on
| juries. Recall that although most people in the US identify themselves
with
| one religion or another, they in fact do not use those values in living
| their every day life.
|
|
|
| Oh, foo.
|
| Religious people also go on trial, and need a jury of their peers, too!
|
| And there's a reason why a jury is twelve (or sometimes six), and why
there is a
| vior dire procedure in sitting a jury.

I've also got it from good sources that the Amish use up their horses with
gay abandon, having little concern for taking proper care of them. They
tend
to buy up unusable trotters and pacers from race tracks at very cheap
prices
and just use them up because they are relatively cheap and they can always
get more where the other ones came from.

Say "foo" to that!

Yes, they do. You are 100% correct on that. They also stop feeding them when
they are no longer useful, and ship them off to the auctions to be sold for
slaughter. Don't even get me started on the puppy mills. I live about 80
miles from Lancaster PA and the local pet stores are full of Amish-bred
puppies. It's all about the almighty dollar.