stress in high school students

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/ed.../29stress.html
A Principal Who Cracks Down on Stress
By Sara Rimer
New York Times October 29, 2007

I wonder what people think about this article, in particular efforts
to reduce stress in high school students. I oppose every specific
measure (other than later start times) mentioned in the article:

(1) mandatory yoga classes for seniors
(2) not publishing the honor roll in the local newspaper
(3) homework-free weekends and holidays
(4) parental permission before enrolling in Advanced Placement
classes. Maybe parents should be required to sign off on student
schedules of every student, but taking AP courses should not be
effectively discouraged.
(5) schools ending the tradition of student newspapers publishing end-
of-the-year lists of seniors and their colleges [because some kids are
embarrassed by going to state schools].

The following excerpt displays wishful thinking:
"Harris had arrived from English class, where his teacher, David
Smokler, had started a unit on writing the college essay by reassuring
his students that the name of the school did not matter. "When you
graduate from college, no one is going to care where you went," Mr.
Smokler said."

Some employers *do* care.

In article . com, Beliavsky
says...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/ed.../29stress.html
A Principal Who Cracks Down on Stress
By Sara Rimer
New York Times October 29, 2007

I wonder what people think about this article, in particular efforts
to reduce stress in high school students. I oppose every specific
measure (other than later start times) mentioned in the article:

(1) mandatory yoga classes for seniors

Boo.

Now, *offering* yoga would be fine, although it would have to be presented
without its spiritual aspects. But boo on this being naditory.

(2) not publishing the honor roll in the local newspaper

Prolly OK. Why object? Why do these things have to be published? It's not for
the sake of the students, believe me.

(3) homework-free weekends and holidays

I think *some few* should be homework free. Homework-free extended holidays
that families often use for travel, for example.

(4) parental permission before enrolling in Advanced Placement
classes. Maybe parents should be required to sign off on student
schedules of every student, but taking AP courses should not be
effectively discouraged.

Parents should know that these generally take higher workloads. Don't parents
sign on the student schedules anyway whatever their content?

(5) schools ending the tradition of student newspapers publishing end-
of-the-year lists of seniors and their colleges [because some kids are
embarrassed by going to state schools].

I don't see anything wrong with the end-of-year lists - they're good, actually.
And nothing is wrong with going to a state school - in my state, students are
proud to go.


The following excerpt displays wishful thinking:
"Harris had arrived from English class, where his teacher, David
Smokler, had started a unit on writing the college essay by reassuring
his students that the name of the school did not matter. "When you
graduate from college, no one is going to care where you went," Mr.
Smokler said."

Some employers *do* care.


Some do. But it can go both ways. Some will be looking *for* certain state
school curricula and finding an Ivy school wanting, on the other hand. My alma
mater is the major agricultural school for several states, for example. It is a
state school. Ditto for those majors associated with strong graduate programs -
my meteorology minor really *meant* something from there.

But frankly, most employers care more for the coursework, major, and GPA, as
long as it's a decent school.

When I was considering medical school, even going so far as to complete the
undergraduate requirements some four years after my B.S. (at another university)
and applying, the upshot of my investigation was this: If you're going to want
to be appointed to the Cardiac surgery department at Boston General, maybe you
had better strive for one of the top five schools. If you want to be a general
practitioner in your home neighborhood, even going out of coutry (like to
Grenada) would be sufficient. Most is in between, and all the in between
options lead to very satisfying medical careers.

Depends on what you want to do. I worked for some years at a major industrial
research laboratory. It mattered a lot where I had received my PhD. But, when
I worked there on a non-PhD technical level early on, my state school
Physics/Meteorology degree was fine. As it was for the top five graduate
engineering department that accepted me for its PhD program (my experience
counted for a lot, too).

Except for the very top, very competitive positions, young people really aren't
all that hobbled by not going to a very competitive institution for their
education. Even then, if their ambitions go in that direction, they can return.

They should go where they'd fit well, and enjoy their years in college as well
as get a good education.

I pretty much plan (financially, and looks like it fits academically) for a NY
State University education for my son. He can go a more expensive route, but
he'd have to borrow. Or a cheaper route (trades, military, or community
college), and a portion of the educational funds I've saved will go to other
purposes.

Banty

"Beliavsky" wrote in message
ups.com...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/ed.../29stress.html
A Principal Who Cracks Down on Stress
By Sara Rimer
New York Times October 29, 2007

I wonder what people think about this article, in particular efforts
to reduce stress in high school students. I oppose every specific
measure (other than later start times) mentioned in the article:

(1) mandatory yoga classes for seniors
(2) not publishing the honor roll in the local newspaper
(3) homework-free weekends and holidays
(4) parental permission before enrolling in Advanced Placement
classes. Maybe parents should be required to sign off on student
schedules of every student, but taking AP courses should not be
effectively discouraged.
(5) schools ending the tradition of student newspapers publishing end-
of-the-year lists of seniors and their colleges [because some kids are
embarrassed by going to state schools].

The only one I see a problem with is #4. I positively agree with #3.
Sounds a perfectly reasonable list. Wouldn't totally see that #1 was
necessary as long as some other exercise was there instead. Can't see why
anyone would find #5 a problem either way.
Not sure what age it's aimed at, I assume it's aimed at "A-level" age 16-19?

The following excerpt displays wishful thinking:
"Harris had arrived from English class, where his teacher, David
Smokler, had started a unit on writing the college essay by reassuring
his students that the name of the school did not matter. "When you
graduate from college, no one is going to care where you went," Mr.
Smokler said."

Some employers *do* care.

In UK it is true that the vast majority of graduate employers don't care
what school you went to. Do you mean school or university?
I'm not sure if dh even mentioned his school on his CV. I know various
people in graduate recruitment and they may look at A-level results, the
year you took the A-levels (as they're getting easier each year since about
1988), your degree and where it came from. School is pretty irrelevant once
you've got a good degree.
Debbie

In UK it is true that the vast majority of graduate employers don't care
what school you went to. Do you mean school or university?
I'm not sure if dh even mentioned his school on his CV. I know various
people in graduate recruitment and they may look at A-level results, the
year you took the A-levels (as they're getting easier each year since about
1988), your degree and where it came from. School is pretty irrelevant once
you've got a good degree.

For school, read university, at least I'm pretty sure it was in this
particular context. Senior is the last year of high school, probably the
year in which you have your 18th birthday, so finishing senior year is
the same point as taking a-levels in the UK. So publishing a list of
schools/colleges is the same as a list of universities students are
going to. Most states have a university named after the state
"University of Washington", "University of California at Berkeley" etc,
state universities "Washington State University", "Florida State
University" etc. and a whole host of others with names based on place or
something else. State universities are "public" universities and receive
funding from the state, the fees are less, so for some people it's a
good option to not go so much into debt, but they generally seem to be
considered as less academic and easier to get into - very very roughly,
they could be seen as similar to former polytechnics in the UK, though
just as the league tables have got mixed up in the UK, some state
universities are higher up and many non state universities low down.
Just like in the UK, whether or not which college you went to matters
very much depends on the job, as Banty explained. It does seem like
there is more joking in general society about state universities than
there is about ex polytechnics in the UK, but at least here, it seems
more like rivalry in the way Oxford and Cambridge are, though not being
native probably means I'm not getting it exactly!

Cheers
Anne

On Oct 29, 2:29 pm, Banty wrote:
In article . com, Beliavsky
says...



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/ed.../29stress.html
A Principal Who Cracks Down on Stress
By Sara Rimer
New York Times October 29, 2007

I wonder what people think about this article, in particular efforts
to reduce stress in high school students. I oppose every specific
measure (other than later start times) mentioned in the article:

(1) mandatory yoga classes for seniors

Boo.

Now, *offering* yoga would be fine, although it would have to be presented
without its spiritual aspects. But boo on this being naditory.

Eh. I don't have a problem with it being part of a comprehensive
physical education curriculum. *We* had to climb ropes and do
routines on the uneven parallel bars in high school. Yoga's got to be
an improvement on that!

(2) not publishing the honor roll in the local newspaper

Prolly OK. Why object? Why do these things have to be published? It's not for
the sake of the students, believe me.

Which is exactly what the article said. It had become some sort of
*accounting* for and by the parents.

Neither my brother nor I ever attended schools that published honor
rolls. My brother emails me stories about every gosh darned honor his
kids receive (and his kids tend to do things like get the highest
score in the nation in science test competitions, while at the same
time maintaining A+ averages AND performing in ... well, you get the
idea) and he's never emailed me an honor roll story, so I guess
they're not published at their schools either. (One's school doesn't
give grades until at least junior high, so no honor roll there.)
We've all nonetheless managed to do quite well.

(3) homework-free weekends and holidays

I think *some few* should be homework free. Homework-free extended holidays
that families often use for travel, for example.

The story was a bit vague there, so I could be wrong, but it appears
that the principal requested that the teachers make *some* holidays
and weekends homework free. The kids liked it because it allowed them
to catch up on other schoolwork.

We've had this discussion here before, so many people here know that I
don't think homework is the bugaboo that some others here believe it
to be. OTOH, I don't think that the world is going to fall apart if
Junior doesn't have homework over winter break.

(4) parental permission before enrolling in Advanced Placement
classes. Maybe parents should be required to sign off on student
schedules of every student, but taking AP courses should not be
effectively discouraged.

Parents should know that these generally take higher workloads. Don't parents
sign on the student schedules anyway whatever their content?

Beliavsky conveniently leaves out the fact that there is encouragement
to take challenging courses, whether or not AP. The high school
profiled appeared to be a bit of a pressure cooker. In any event, why
does it *discourage* students from taking AP courses by requiring
parental consent? Perhaps the school simply wants to encourage
students and parents to discuss the options, including time
commitments, before finalizing a schedule. (There may, of course, be
cases in which parents don't care about the kids' education to give
consent; in those cases, I'd encourage some sort of bypass mechanism
with input from school counselors.)

(5) schools ending the tradition of student newspapers publishing end-
of-the-year lists of seniors and their colleges [because some kids are
embarrassed by going to state schools].

I don't see anything wrong with the end-of-year lists - they're good, actually.
And nothing is wrong with going to a state school - in my state, students are
proud to go.

Again, though, if the main purpose served is to give parents bragging
rights, then why do it? Does it serve any educational purpose? Is
there any reason to believe that publishing these lists causes any
substantial percentage of kids to learn or study more? Just like the
honors lists ... they're nice if they give the kids themselves some
sense of pride and accomplishment. If, OTOH, they're merely a tool to
let some parents lord it over others, or something that makes some
kids feel bad without providing any benefit to others, then don't
publish them.

The following excerpt displays wishful thinking:
"Harris had arrived from English class, where his teacher, David
Smokler, had started a unit on writing the college essay by reassuring
his students that the name of the school did not matter. "When you
graduate from college, no one is going to care where you went," Mr.
Smokler said."

Some employers *do* care.

Some do. But it can go both ways. Some will be looking *for* certain state
school curricula and finding an Ivy school wanting, on the other hand. My alma
mater is the major agricultural school for several states, for example. It is a
state school. Ditto for those majors associated with strong graduate programs -
my meteorology minor really *meant* something from there.

But frankly, most employers care more for the coursework, major, and GPA, as
long as it's a decent school.
SNIP

It may well depend upon the field. I'm an attorney, and even [ERROR;
TRANSMISSION INTERRUPTED] years later, employers do care.

In sum, I'm all for things that help kids learn, or that motivate them
to do better. I'm all for giving kids that do well a well-deserved
pat on the back. But I can live without providing parents with tools
to bludgeon other parents, and without things that make some kids feel
bad without benefiting other kids. In this case, the school believed
many of these practices to be the latter.

Barbara

In article . com, Barbara
says...

On Oct 29, 2:29 pm, Banty wrote:
In article . com, Beliavsky
says...



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/ed.../29stress.html
A Principal Who Cracks Down on Stress
By Sara Rimer
New York Times October 29, 2007

I wonder what people think about this article, in particular efforts
to reduce stress in high school students. I oppose every specific
measure (other than later start times) mentioned in the article:

(1) mandatory yoga classes for seniors

Boo.

Now, *offering* yoga would be fine, although it would have to be presented
without its spiritual aspects. But boo on this being naditory.

Eh. I don't have a problem with it being part of a comprehensive
physical education curriculum. *We* had to climb ropes and do
routines on the uneven parallel bars in high school. Yoga's got to be
an improvement on that!

OK, me neither. As part of a curriculum it's fine. If they made us do golf
(which is a durn religion too, BTW, if you don't believe me talk to avid
golfers! ;-), they can make kids do yoga.


(2) not publishing the honor roll in the local newspaper

Prolly OK. Why object? Why do these things have to be published? It's not for
the sake of the students, believe me.

Which is exactly what the article said. It had become some sort of
*accounting* for and by the parents.

It's a parent-medal to 'wear' in front of all the other parent
newspaper-readers. It's not for the students at all, not even those named. I
mean, if you get promoted at your job, do you see it in the newspaper? Not
usually.


Neither my brother nor I ever attended schools that published honor
rolls. My brother emails me stories about every gosh darned honor his
kids receive (and his kids tend to do things like get the highest
score in the nation in science test competitions, while at the same
time maintaining A+ averages AND performing in ... well, you get the
idea) and he's never emailed me an honor roll story, so I guess
they're not published at their schools either. (One's school doesn't
give grades until at least junior high, so no honor roll there.)
We've all nonetheless managed to do quite well.

(3) homework-free weekends and holidays

I think *some few* should be homework free. Homework-free extended holidays
that families often use for travel, for example.

The story was a bit vague there, so I could be wrong, but it appears
that the principal requested that the teachers make *some* holidays
and weekends homework free. The kids liked it because it allowed them
to catch up on other schoolwork.

LOL - yes, I liked homework free weekends so that I could finally catch up wiht
my homework..

But around here, when in elementary school weekends were *all sacred* and heaven
help the teacher who gives homework on a Friday due Monday, for some reason in
High School the spring break is fair game for an involved project. They go from
one extreme to another!


We've had this discussion here before, so many people here know that I
don't think homework is the bugaboo that some others here believe it
to be. OTOH, I don't think that the world is going to fall apart if
Junior doesn't have homework over winter break.

(4) parental permission before enrolling in Advanced Placement
classes. Maybe parents should be required to sign off on student
schedules of every student, but taking AP courses should not be
effectively discouraged.

Parents should know that these generally take higher workloads. Don't parents
sign on the student schedules anyway whatever their content?

Beliavsky conveniently leaves out the fact that there is encouragement
to take challenging courses, whether or not AP. The high school
profiled appeared to be a bit of a pressure cooker. In any event, why
does it *discourage* students from taking AP courses by requiring
parental consent? Perhaps the school simply wants to encourage
students and parents to discuss the options, including time
commitments, before finalizing a schedule. (There may, of course, be
cases in which parents don't care about the kids' education to give
consent; in those cases, I'd encourage some sort of bypass mechanism
with input from school counselors.)

That would be good. Although it took me some effort when I was in high school
to get past the school counselors myself to get into challenging courses. See,
I didnt' always get "A's", I got "A's" and "D's", and they didn't like my "D's".
So I was initialy denied a class in Meteorology and Geology due to my Algebra
grade. I pointed out to them that it was my senior year, I had well over the
necessary coursework, so if I failed that course due to weakness in Algebra, so
what.


(5) schools ending the tradition of student newspapers publishing end-
of-the-year lists of seniors and their colleges [because some kids are
embarrassed by going to state schools].

I don't see anything wrong with the end-of-year lists - they're good, actually.
And nothing is wrong with going to a state school - in my state, students are
proud to go.

Again, though, if the main purpose served is to give parents bragging
rights, then why do it?

As part of the yearbook or in student newspapers, it's a way to document where
many of the kids are, at least initially. I take it the student newspaper is a
publication, usually put out by the journalism club, geared to the *students*.
While on the other hand the "local paper" is the newspaper connected with
whatever locality and isnt' a school publication.

Does it serve any educational purpose? Is
there any reason to believe that publishing these lists causes any
substantial percentage of kids to learn or study more? Just like the
honors lists ... they're nice if they give the kids themselves some
sense of pride and accomplishment. If, OTOH, they're merely a tool to
let some parents lord it over others, or something that makes some
kids feel bad without providing any benefit to others, then don't
publish them.

The school papers aren't for parents. At least none of the ones I've seen or
remmeber.


The following excerpt displays wishful thinking:
"Harris had arrived from English class, where his teacher, David
Smokler, had started a unit on writing the college essay by reassuring
his students that the name of the school did not matter. "When you
graduate from college, no one is going to care where you went," Mr.
Smokler said."

Some employers *do* care.

Some do. But it can go both ways. Some will be looking *for* certain state
school curricula and finding an Ivy school wanting, on the other hand. My alma
mater is the major agricultural school for several states, for example. It is a
state school. Ditto for those majors associated with strong graduate programs -
my meteorology minor really *meant* something from there.

But frankly, most employers care more for the coursework, major, and GPA, as
long as it's a decent school.
SNIP

It may well depend upon the field. I'm an attorney, and even [ERROR;
TRANSMISSION INTERRUPTED] years later, employers do care.

It matters more for professional fields. (Are you going to sue over that
transmisison error? gdr)

But if you set up your own practice, it wouldn't matter.


In sum, I'm all for things that help kids learn, or that motivate them
to do better. I'm all for giving kids that do well a well-deserved
pat on the back. But I can live without providing parents with tools
to bludgeon other parents, and without things that make some kids feel
bad without benefiting other kids. In this case, the school believed
many of these practices to be the latter.

I'd go with that.

Cheers,
Banty

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article . com, Barbara
says...

On Oct 29, 2:29 pm, Banty wrote:
In article . com,
Beliavsky
says...



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/ed.../29stress.html
A Principal Who Cracks Down on Stress
By Sara Rimer
New York Times October 29, 2007

I wonder what people think about this article, in particular efforts
to reduce stress in high school students. I oppose every specific
measure (other than later start times) mentioned in the article:

(1) mandatory yoga classes for seniors

Boo.

Now, *offering* yoga would be fine, although it would have to be
presented
without its spiritual aspects. But boo on this being naditory.

Eh. I don't have a problem with it being part of a comprehensive
physical education curriculum. *We* had to climb ropes and do
routines on the uneven parallel bars in high school. Yoga's got to be
an improvement on that!

OK, me neither. As part of a curriculum it's fine. If they made us do
golf
(which is a durn religion too, BTW, if you don't believe me talk to avid
golfers! ;-), they can make kids do yoga.

How many seniors still have a PE requirement? When I was in school, I had 2
years of PE/Health required, and had them out of the way Fresh/Soph year.
My husband had a 1 SEMESTER PE requirement. I know people at other schools
who had their PE requirement fulfilled by participating in a sport or in
Marching band (always wished my school did that).



(2) not publishing the honor roll in the local newspaper

Prolly OK. Why object? Why do these things have to be published? It's
not for
the sake of the students, believe me.

Which is exactly what the article said. It had become some sort of
*accounting* for and by the parents.

It's a parent-medal to 'wear' in front of all the other parent
newspaper-readers. It's not for the students at all, not even those
named. I
mean, if you get promoted at your job, do you see it in the newspaper?
Not
usually.


Neither my brother nor I ever attended schools that published honor
rolls. My brother emails me stories about every gosh darned honor his
kids receive (and his kids tend to do things like get the highest
score in the nation in science test competitions, while at the same
time maintaining A+ averages AND performing in ... well, you get the
idea) and he's never emailed me an honor roll story, so I guess
they're not published at their schools either. (One's school doesn't
give grades until at least junior high, so no honor roll there.)
We've all nonetheless managed to do quite well.

(3) homework-free weekends and holidays

I think *some few* should be homework free. Homework-free extended
holidays
that families often use for travel, for example.

The story was a bit vague there, so I could be wrong, but it appears
that the principal requested that the teachers make *some* holidays
and weekends homework free. The kids liked it because it allowed them
to catch up on other schoolwork.

LOL - yes, I liked homework free weekends so that I could finally catch up
wiht
my homework..

But around here, when in elementary school weekends were *all sacred* and
heaven
help the teacher who gives homework on a Friday due Monday, for some
reason in
High School the spring break is fair game for an involved project. They
go from
one extreme to another!

I think that by high school, there should be a syllabus, similar to college,
where you know what major assignments are due when, and it's up to you to
start pacing. The only difference would be possibly having more intermediate
dates. I know I had many college assignments due right after Thanksgiving or
Spring break-but since I'd known of them since August or January, I could
hardly complain.

And if you assign homework based on the previous week's lessons as extra
practice, you can do something similar at an elementary school level as
well-assign on Monday, due the following Monday, your choice when to do it.

Of course, I'm a music teacher, and we habitually do assignments on a weekly
basis, with it being up to the student WHEN to do each piece and how much
effort to put into it-but the next lesson, the rubber will hit the road.


We've had this discussion here before, so many people here know that I
don't think homework is the bugaboo that some others here believe it
to be. OTOH, I don't think that the world is going to fall apart if
Junior doesn't have homework over winter break.

(4) parental permission before enrolling in Advanced Placement
classes. Maybe parents should be required to sign off on student
schedules of every student, but taking AP courses should not be
effectively discouraged.

Parents should know that these generally take higher workloads. Don't
parents
sign on the student schedules anyway whatever their content?

Beliavsky conveniently leaves out the fact that there is encouragement
to take challenging courses, whether or not AP. The high school
profiled appeared to be a bit of a pressure cooker. In any event, why
does it *discourage* students from taking AP courses by requiring
parental consent? Perhaps the school simply wants to encourage
students and parents to discuss the options, including time
commitments, before finalizing a schedule. (There may, of course, be
cases in which parents don't care about the kids' education to give
consent; in those cases, I'd encourage some sort of bypass mechanism
with input from school counselors.)

That would be good. Although it took me some effort when I was in high
school
to get past the school counselors myself to get into challenging courses.
See,
I didnt' always get "A's", I got "A's" and "D's", and they didn't like my
"D's".
So I was initialy denied a class in Meteorology and Geology due to my
Algebra
grade. I pointed out to them that it was my senior year, I had well over
the
necessary coursework, so if I failed that course due to weakness in
Algebra, so
what.

I tend to feel that students shouldn't be allowed to take an AP course
without the same effort that it would take to take a similar class at a
local College or University-that it shouldn't be something you sign up for
casually, but neither should it require an act of congress to get into it.
There also needs to be some attention placed on the overall schedule-I've
heard parents bragging about AP courseloads their child was taking which
would have been considered an overload at the college level.



(5) schools ending the tradition of student newspapers publishing end-
of-the-year lists of seniors and their colleges [because some kids are
embarrassed by going to state schools].

I don't see anything wrong with the end-of-year lists - they're good,
actually.
And nothing is wrong with going to a state school - in my state,
students are
proud to go.

Again, though, if the main purpose served is to give parents bragging
rights, then why do it?

As part of the yearbook or in student newspapers, it's a way to document
where
many of the kids are, at least initially. I take it the student newspaper
is a
publication, usually put out by the journalism club, geared to the
*students*.
While on the other hand the "local paper" is the newspaper connected with
whatever locality and isnt' a school publication.

Does it serve any educational purpose? Is
there any reason to believe that publishing these lists causes any
substantial percentage of kids to learn or study more? Just like the
honors lists ... they're nice if they give the kids themselves some
sense of pride and accomplishment. If, OTOH, they're merely a tool to
let some parents lord it over others, or something that makes some
kids feel bad without providing any benefit to others, then don't
publish them.

The school papers aren't for parents. At least none of the ones I've seen
or
remmeber.

I remember when my high school stopped announcing what a student's goals
were at graduation-attending X school, entering the military, planning to
work (in some cases, for a specific employer), getting married, etc.

I don't think anyone missed it after the first year. Everyone knew who was
attending the most exclusive schools, had the top scholarships etc because
they usually were honored in other ways (My scholarships were mentioned in
conjuntion with the Arion award, for example, even though only part of my
scholarships were due to music).


The following excerpt displays wishful thinking:
"Harris had arrived from English class, where his teacher, David
Smokler, had started a unit on writing the college essay by reassuring
his students that the name of the school did not matter. "When you
graduate from college, no one is going to care where you went," Mr.
Smokler said."

Some employers *do* care.

Some do. But it can go both ways. Some will be looking *for* certain
state
school curricula and finding an Ivy school wanting, on the other hand.
My alma
mater is the major agricultural school for several states, for example.
It is a
state school. Ditto for those majors associated with strong graduate
programs -
my meteorology minor really *meant* something from there.

But frankly, most employers care more for the coursework, major, and
GPA, as
long as it's a decent school.
SNIP

It may well depend upon the field. I'm an attorney, and even [ERROR;
TRANSMISSION INTERRUPTED] years later, employers do care.

It matters more for professional fields. (Are you going to sue over that
transmisison error? gdr)

But if you set up your own practice, it wouldn't matter.

And, does the undergraduate school matter, or does the Law School matter? I
realize that it's probably easier to get into Harvard Law if you attended an
Ivy covered undergrad school, but I strongly suspect that my dorm-mate who
got a 4.0 in undergrad and then was Law Review editor at Yale probably was
pretty desirable despite having attended a state university on scholarship.

And in some fields, well, you never know. My husband's undergrad degrees
have become MORE valuable since he entered the professional field because
the University he attended has become very well known in a few very
specialized areas-and guess where he works most of the time?


In sum, I'm all for things that help kids learn, or that motivate them
to do better. I'm all for giving kids that do well a well-deserved
pat on the back. But I can live without providing parents with tools
to bludgeon other parents, and without things that make some kids feel
bad without benefiting other kids. In this case, the school believed
many of these practices to be the latter.

I'd go with that.

Cheers,
Banty

On Oct 29, 5:42 pm, "Donna Metler" wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message

... In article . com, Barbara
says...

SNIP
(1) mandatory yoga classes for seniors

Boo.

Now, *offering* yoga would be fine, although it would have to be
presented
without its spiritual aspects. But boo on this being naditory.

Eh. I don't have a problem with it being part of a comprehensive
physical education curriculum. *We* had to climb ropes and do
routines on the uneven parallel bars in high school. Yoga's got to be
an improvement on that!

OK, me neither. As part of a curriculum it's fine. If they made us do
golf
(which is a durn religion too, BTW, if you don't believe me talk to avid
golfers! ;-), they can make kids do yoga.

How many seniors still have a PE requirement? When I was in school, I had 2
years of PE/Health required, and had them out of the way Fresh/Soph year.
My husband had a 1 SEMESTER PE requirement. I know people at other schools
who had their PE requirement fulfilled by participating in a sport or in
Marching band (always wished my school did that).
SNIP

Interesting. I learn a lot here. When I was in high school in
Pennsylvania, physical education was required every semester through
high school graduation. I just checked, and it still is. Same here
in NY (although I'm pretty sure that schools in NY count recess
towards the requirement).

Barbara

"Barbara" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 29, 5:42 pm, "Donna Metler" wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message

... In article
. com, Barbara
says...

SNIP
(1) mandatory yoga classes for seniors

Boo.

Now, *offering* yoga would be fine, although it would have to be
presented
without its spiritual aspects. But boo on this being naditory.

Eh. I don't have a problem with it being part of a comprehensive
physical education curriculum. *We* had to climb ropes and do
routines on the uneven parallel bars in high school. Yoga's got to be
an improvement on that!

OK, me neither. As part of a curriculum it's fine. If they made us do
golf
(which is a durn religion too, BTW, if you don't believe me talk to
avid
golfers! ;-), they can make kids do yoga.

How many seniors still have a PE requirement? When I was in school, I had
2
years of PE/Health required, and had them out of the way Fresh/Soph year.
My husband had a 1 SEMESTER PE requirement. I know people at other
schools
who had their PE requirement fulfilled by participating in a sport or in
Marching band (always wished my school did that).
SNIP

Interesting. I learn a lot here. When I was in high school in
Pennsylvania, physical education was required every semester through
high school graduation. I just checked, and it still is. Same here
in NY (although I'm pretty sure that schools in NY count recess
towards the requirement).

Barbara

Indeed. My senior son (in PA) is required to take PE, in fact, he has two PE
classes this term. One of them, Life Fitness, is actually teaching him
something useful.

On Oct 29, 3:37 pm, Barbara wrote:
On Oct 29, 2:29 pm, Banty wrote:


In article . com, Beliavsky
says...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/ed.../29stress.html
A Principal Who Cracks Down on Stress
By Sara Rimer
New York Times October 29, 2007

I wonder what people think about this article, in particular efforts
to reduce stress in high school students. I oppose every specific
measure (other than later start times) mentioned in the article:

(1) mandatory yoga classes for seniors

Eh. I don't have a problem with it being part of a comprehensive
physical education curriculum. *We* had to climb ropes and do
routines on the uneven parallel bars in high school. Yoga's got to be
an improvement on that!

Gotta be taught properly, though, or you risk kids really hurting
themselves. I'd be willing to be most h.s. PE teachers aren't
qualified, since a lot of yoga instructors, I've read, aren't.

Of course, if the school is a source of stress and you want your
students to be able to combat stress, why not move this to the junior-
level curriculum, once you've got qualified instructors?w

(2) not publishing the honor roll in the local newspaper

Actually, the story said in the student newsaper. I'd say the
principal's probably in a better position to judge the effect of this
on the kids in his school, and in a high-pressure competitive high
school, I could see that it might be a source of stress in a way that
it's not at a less rigorous school.

(3) homework-free weekends and holidays


The story was a bit vague there, so I could be wrong, but it appears
that the principal requested that the teachers make *some* holidays
and weekends homework free.

That's the way I read it, too -- as a request, and for some (not all)
homework-free weekends and holidays. It also sounded as if the timing
were at the teacher's discretion, rather than "no homework over
Thanksgiving break."

Hard for me to see that this significantly interferes with a teacher's
ability to lead an academically rigorous class!

(4) parental permission before enrolling in Advanced Placement
classes. Maybe parents should be required to sign off on student
schedules of every student, but taking AP courses should not be
effectively discouraged.

Parents should know that these generally take higher workloads. Don't parents
sign on the student schedules anyway whatever their content?

We do, here.

Beliavsky conveniently leaves out the fact that there is encouragement
to take challenging courses, whether or not AP. The high school
profiled appeared to be a bit of a pressure cooker. In any event, why
does it *discourage* students from taking AP courses by requiring
parental consent? Perhaps the school simply wants to encourage
students and parents to discuss the options, including time
commitments, before finalizing a schedule. (There may, of course, be
cases in which parents don't care about the kids' education to give
consent; in those cases, I'd encourage some sort of bypass mechanism
with input from school counselors.)

Pressure-cooker high schools (ours is one) don't need to encourage
students to sign up for AP classes -- they'll do it anyway to enhance
the college application.

(5) schools ending the tradition of student newspapers publishing end-
of-the-year lists of seniors and their colleges [because some kids are
embarrassed by going to state schools].

I don't see anything wrong with the end-of-year lists - they're good, actually.
And nothing is wrong with going to a state school - in my state, students are
proud to go.

I think this varies by locale. Here, it's very difficult for students
to get into UW-Madison, the flagship school. They can get into the
other state schools, or even into the state's 2-year schools and then
transfer to Madison (there are more spots available for transfer
students, after others have dropped out or transferred), but that's
(understandably) not a popular option. I could very much see that some
kids in our pressure-cooker high school (where something like 95% of
graduates go on to college) might not want to advertise they're going
to UW-2-year.

The following excerpt displays wishful thinking:
"Harris had arrived from English class, where his teacher, David
Smokler, had started a unit on writing the college essay by reassuring
his students that the name of the school did not matter. "When you
graduate from college, no one is going to care where you went," Mr.
Smokler said."

Some employers *do* care.

Some do. But it can go both ways. Some will be looking *for* certain state
school curricula and finding an Ivy school wanting, on the other hand. My alma
mater is the major agricultural school for several states, for example. It is a
state school. Ditto for those majors associated with strong graduate programs -
my meteorology minor really *meant* something from there.

But frankly, most employers care more for the coursework, major, and GPA, as
long as it's a decent school.

SNIP

It may well depend upon the field. I'm an attorney, and even [ERROR;
TRANSMISSION INTERRUPTED] years later, employers do care.

Mr. Smokler may have exaggerated a bit, because obviously some
employers do. But there are also some attorneys out there living happy
and productive lives even though they didn't go to a prestigious
school, no?

In sum, I'm all for things that help kids learn, or that motivate them
to do better. I'm all for giving kids that do well a well-deserved
pat on the back. But I can live without providing parents with tools
to bludgeon other parents, and without things that make some kids feel
bad without benefiting other kids. In this case, the school believed
many of these practices to be the latter.

I think it's entirely possible that they were, in that school.

But schools and their culture vary widely, and have changed over the
last 20 years or so, too. What's always been helpful in motivating
kids in one school environment might have become totally inappropriate
and even harmful for another, if they've got other sources of
motivation.

So I don't think that blanket "Honor roll publication is good/bad"
kinds of statements are useful, without weighing individual
circumstances.

Lori G.
Milwaukee