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#112
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Question for religious parents
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 06:20:47 GMT, dragonlady
wrote: But that doesn't mean the obnoxious atheist zealots are any more fun to deal with. Do you have anyone in mind? Online, perhaps vbg -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#113
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Question for religious parents
So you'd be in the second category?
NO! Did you not READ what I said? In the second catagory it said:"and are more than happy to tell you what an idiot you are if you express a belief." I said:"I'll be honest here, I do think that for the most part that everyone would be an atheist if they thought critically about thier religions, but frankly, I don't care. People can live thier lives how they see fit. And I can live mine. Not all atheists fall into those two catagories. So I just wanted to make sure I wasn't confused." I've said repeatedly "I live and let live"...and you discount that because you misread one statement. I can THINK religious people are morons all I want, but I don't say it to them and I provide them the same respect I provide ALL people. |
#114
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Question for religious parents
After a fashion -- but only if she feels free to make sure those who are
theists KNOW she thinks they're unthinking. And I DON'T feel free to do that, in order to live in a harmonious (sp) society we need to live and let live. That is my motto and has been for a long time now. You can believe what you want, provided it doesnt' intrude on my life, and I can believe what I want, as long as it doesnt' intrude on your life. I keep quiet about these things when possible. However, some religious people force me to say what I think, mainly my family, because they accuse me of nasty things. Also, when religious beliefs are forced on me, such as intelligent design. In day to day life and in 99% of all situations I find no need to talk about these things. My dad tells me to say my prayers when he calls and I say "Ok"...I don't get all pushy on him. Live and let live...the world would be much better if EVERYONE did this. The problem is like i said before some religious people have an interest in forcing thier version of life on people because they want to save them from going to hell. So, in a way the whole "live and let live" system goes to hell. |
#115
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Question for religious parents
wrote in message oups.com... So you'd be in the second category? NO! Did you not READ what I said? In the second catagory it said:"and are more than happy to tell you what an idiot you are if you express a belief." I said:"I'll be honest here, I do think that for the most part that everyone would be an atheist if they thought critically about thier religions, but frankly, I don't care. People can live thier lives how they see fit. And I can live mine. Not all atheists fall into those two catagories. So I just wanted to make sure I wasn't confused." I've said repeatedly "I live and let live"...and you discount that because you misread one statement. I can THINK religious people are morons all I want, but I don't say it to them and I provide them the same respect I provide ALL people. Well, you've just told every religious person *here* that you think they are morons. And I think it's rather hard to treat people with real respect if you actually think they are morons. I'm willing to bet your attitude leaks through more than you think--just like someone who thinks you are going to hell for your beliefs may not actually *say* so, but it might be obvious in their expression or actions. You might want to practice real tolerance, and consider that people may have their own valid reasons for having a strong religious belief that do not include "because they are morons and too stupid to know any better." Bizby |
#116
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Question for religious parents
In article ,
toto wrote: On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 06:20:47 GMT, dragonlady wrote: But that doesn't mean the obnoxious atheist zealots are any more fun to deal with. Do you have anyone in mind? Online, perhaps vbg When I wrote that I wasn't thinking of any particular individual -- but now that you mention it -- -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#117
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Question for religious parents
"because they are morons and too stupid to know any better."
Exactly who are you quoting there? I don't think you are following in the entire conversation. I didn't say that I think all religious people are morons, I said I can *think* that but not say it. I didn't say that I *did* think that. Follow along better. I DID say however that I think religious people aren't critical thinkers in terms of thier religion. And a lot of religious people will agree with that. They don't critically analize thier religion. I do practice "real" tolerence. You don't know me, you don't know anything about my real life. Everyone I love is intensly religious except my husband. I am speaking on the internet candidly because I CANNOT do that in my REAL life. I am not allowed to have my own opinions be free. My opinions are, and for the most part, will always be kept to myself because I am an extreme minority and I prefer to have my family in my life. So do NOT talk to ME about tolerence. My entire life is walking egg shells around my catholic, mormon and protestant family. And every single one of them will tell you I'm the easiest person in the world to get along with. This is the internet, it's a tool and I'm using it. And do not EVER make a fake quote from me again please. |
#118
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Question for religious parents
bizby writes:
You might want to practice real tolerance, and consider that people may have their own valid reasons for having a strong religious belief that do not include "because they are morons and too stupid to know any better." Well, "because they are morons" is hyperbole, not IIRC intended to be taken seriously. But, and I do intend this to be taken seriously, I don't think we can get away from the uncomfortable truth that many (most?) of us *do* actually think that the majority of other people in the world are very seriously mistaken in their religious beliefs or lack of them. True, there are some people with sufficiently wishy-washy beliefs themselves to think that it doesn't matter what other people believe, they're all as right and as wrong as one another, but you can't expect everyone to feel that way. Maybe you don't expect that, but what you wrote above sounds a bit like it. What's a "valid reason" to hold an incorrect belief? It depends on what you mean by "valid" of course - most people believe whatever they do because they grew up surrounded by people who believed the same. Is that "valid"? Well, it's understandable, but that doesn't make the belief any less wrong. If I feel that I understand why someone holds a belief, but I think that they haven't ever questioned it and that that fact tells me something about that person's character or intellect, and if I trust that person's judgement a little less because of it, does that make me intolerant in your eyes? If so, so be it. I think most people, of many different kinds of belief, feel the same way if they're honest. And if you think what's been said in this thread (about why religious people believe) is intolerant, try listening to what many evangelical Christians (and their preachers) say about why people who have been exposed to Christianity nevertheless don't follow it!! (For example, the religious leader of a dear friend of mine once encouraged his flock to bring all their unbelieving friends to a service - I went, out of loyalty to her and out of curiosity - and proceeded to preach a sermon about how selfish, unthinking, materialistic, etc. etc. we all were. I'm very happy that she's since given up that and in fact all religion, and I'm not ashamed to say so.) Personally I think "real tolerance" is neither possible *nor desirable* for most people, if I understand correctly what you mean by it. (Not desirable, because aiming for it involves suppressing one's own critical faculties.) And if we draw attention to our beliefs, whether that's by what we say or by what we do, I don't, personally, think we can complain if others express their disapproval of our beliefs. Like it or not, religion is something on which people have strong differences of opinion, and where most people think those differences matter a lot. A position does not automatically deserve respect because it is "religious". I'm happy that the government of my country has recently preserved our right to criticise, attack, mock, ridicule etc. religious beliefs. Not because I think that's a good thing to do - I think the occasions when it's justified to do so are few - but because I think that criminalising that would have put religious beliefs on a pedestal they don't deserve. By all means let's "pick our battles" and not go discussing religion with people who don't want to do it, but let's not pretend we can have something we can't have, harmony of belief among us all. That pretence won't help. Better to accept that we have strong differences of opinion but still need one another. JMO of course! Sidheag DS Colin Oct 27 2003 |
#119
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Question for religious parents
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 22:32:03 GMT, dragonlady
wrote: In article , toto wrote: On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 06:20:47 GMT, dragonlady wrote: But that doesn't mean the obnoxious atheist zealots are any more fun to deal with. Do you have anyone in mind? Online, perhaps vbg When I wrote that I wasn't thinking of any particular individual -- but now that you mention it -- Thought so.. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#120
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Question for religious parents
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