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Roman Catholicism vs. Protestant Christianity debate
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=194569
Are Catholics Christians? -- Bible John vs. seebs This thread has been set up for a formal debate between Bible John and seebs who will debate the following resolution: "Resolved: that a true Catholic cannot be a true Christian." Bible John will affirm and seebs will oppose. The debate will have 4 rounds and Bible John will go first, per the parameters. A Peanut Gallery is set up in the General Religious Discussions forum for the rest of us to comment on the debate. Enjoy the debate! Default Round Hello everyone and I want to welcome you to the debate. First before we start I want to introduce myself. The names John Wolf and I run the ministry Church Education Resource Ministries, which can be found at www.cerm.info. I am of the Reformed Baptist/Baptistic Fundamentalist tradition, and I wanted to make that 100% clear before we started. In previous debates I have only said that I was Fundamentalist, and in doing so have possibly confused others. First I'm sure you are aware of the many King James Version Only Armenian Fundamental believers, which all too often get confused with reformed. A KJVO church is really much different than a Reformed Fundamental church. Second despite what some in the peanut Galleries may say, I never once stated that all Armenians were unsaved. In this debate I will try to be as sensitive to my opponent as possible for many reasons. When I was at school I had a friend who was attracted to liturgical churches, and eventually left the Reformed Baptistic Fundamental Bible Church that we both were attending. He left our church to attend some Catholic, Lutheran or other liturgical environment. I feel sorry for him, as this in my view was his first step down the slide to theological liberalism. But in some ways I could understand why he did what he did. This friend was very excited about Theology, and gravitated very much to the many great Theologians of the past. The Reformed Baptistic Fundamental Bible Church did not teach anything other than the Bible and they valued the bold Bible preaching and Teaching of the Word of God. What historical Theologians had to say meant almost nothing at this church. My opponent like my friend values Theology and I want to respect those that value the study of Theology. My old church (also like my current one) does not seem to care about anything other than Biblical Theology, and in some ways I regret their positions. But it's really not uncommon in Fundamentalist Churches. A poster from the Peanut Galleries messaged me and told me that Fundamentalists were poor theologians and the best Theologians were in liturgical churches. I won't argue with his views. In this debate I will explain why the doctrine of Justification in the Catholic tradition is unbiblical, and next I will explain why the Catholic worship of Mary is unbiblical. I am afraid that I will not have enough time nor space to cover the other unbiblical problems in Roman Catholicism. I am not an expert on the subject and will not pretend to be the best opponent for such a debate. The resources that I will be using in this debate are as follows. 1. The Bible- Mostly the King James and the New American Standard versions. 2. New Dictionary of Theology 3. A half dozen websites 4. Pastor John MacArthur's exposing Mary worship in Roman Catholicism CD set In this round I will be discussing and comparing the Christian and Catholic versions of the Doctrine of Justification. In the next round I will be exposing Mary Worship in the Roman Catholic Church. The Protestant Doctrine of Justification Justification is a divine act of God, where God himself declares the sinner to be innocent and free from his or her sins. God declares the sinner righteous and free from the pit of Hell and eternal separation from God. In Christian Theology Justification is only through the Lord Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for the sins of all mankind on the cross at Calvary. (Rom 5:9 KJV) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. In Christian Theology Justification is a gift of grace and not by works. (Rom 3:24 KJV) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (Tit 3:7 KJV) That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Justification only comes through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone. (Rom 3:28 KJV) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Rom 5:1 KJV) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: If someone receives the Lord Jesus Christ into their hearts and accepts His sacrifice for their sins they are justified from their sin. This is quite different from Roman Catholic Theology, which I will be later discussing. (Joh 1:12 KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (1Pe 2:24 KJV) Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. By doing this these are justified in the sight of God. One of the major distinctions between Christian Theology and Catholic Theology is that to the Christian Justification is not by works, but by Grace alone. The passage below is the most popular of the grace passages. Eph 2:8-9 KJV (8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. You see in Christian Theology, the Bible makes it very clear that man's works alone are nothing but dirty stinky rags before an all- powerful and all mighty God. Isa 64:6 KJV (6) But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. God is not in the least impressed with the works of a man. Even the most clean of unbelievers, is dirty before God. Of course I believe in degrees of punishment in Hell and degrees of reward in Heaven. I believe that the most holy of all unbelievers might get a different Hell than an Adolph Hitler, or a Spiritual Terrorist, but still they go to the same Hell. The scripture below is one passage of many that speaks of degrees of punishment in Hell. The context in Jude is speaking of the false teachers. Jud 1:12-13 KJV (12) These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; (13) Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. Salvation is a free gift, and cannot be earned. Mankind cannot work his or her way into salvation and freedom from the pit of Hell. Once in a Sunday school in a contemporary Evangelical church a pastor once told a story that helped explain the doctrine of Justification. The story is below. Trying to earn your way to salvation is like trying to swim from California to Hawaii. No man or woman can do it. Some may get closer to Hawaii than others, yet no one attempting the feat could ever accomplish it. Olympic swimmers may get the farthest, yet they also will die. Instead of trying to swim to Hawaii, the safest way to get there would be to fly. In the same way, what Jesus did was he provided salvation and freedom from eternal death. Kinda like an airplane will provide freedom from death in the ocean by trying to swim there. Accepting Jesus is like accepting a ride in the airplane as a means to get to Hawaii. Even one of the most liberal Evangelical Churches in the Bay Area Peninsula (whom I mailed John MacArthurs book Ashamed of the Gospel, When the Church Becomes like the World) agrees with me on the doctrine of Justification. I have never once called this church a cult, nor have I ever labeled them Spiritual Terrorists. My critics think that I hate all those that disagree with me, but this is a flat out lie. While me and this church strongly disagree on our ministry philosophies, and our theology in many secondary areas, I do realize that many of the attendees at this church, the staff and pastoral team will be in Heaven with me. But until that time, I wont associate with them. The Roman Catholic Doctrine of Justification The Catholic version of the doctrine of Justification is quite different. Below are some quotes from Catholic doctrine. "If any one saith, that thy faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him by anathema" (From the Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9). "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema" (Canon 14). Do any of you know what the harsh word anathema means? According to Roman Catholic Theology it means simply excommunication, or in the Greek it can be translated as accursed and condemned. This language is very harsh, and what I personally use to refer to certain members of unorthodox Christian groups on Usenet Newsgroups. In the same way in Catholic theology, all protestants are unorthodox and anathema. So to put it simply, in Roman Catholic Theology a Christian doctrine of Justification is a false doctrine. To the Catholic Theologian Christianity is false. I think that if Catholics could differentiate between the orthodox and unorthodox Christians, they might have a point. But the Catholic Theologian can't tell the difference between Reformed Baptist/Baptistic Fundamentalism, OneNess Pentecostalism, or the ecumenical movement of theological liberalism. I have tried to persuade Catholics that not all Christians are the same, and I have gotten angry with some of them for stereotyping all Protestants as one and the same. I have told some of them that my ministry has no associations with anyone associated with Theological Liberalism, yet they continue to stereo type and put me into the same category as them. I hate stereotypes, yet can't do a thing about them. The Catholic Church does not state anywhere that salvation comes from grace. Based on my research (and personnel experience with Catholics) I have heard them quoting a verse in the NT which is below. Jam 2:24 KJV (24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Catholics believe that works is a part of salvation. I believe they think this because they read James and the entire NT out of CONTEXT. If one were to look at the entire CONTEXT of the book of James they would see that the contrast in the passage is in reference to Dead Faith vs. Living Faith. Dead faith would be only an acknowledgment as Jesus as Lord, but without real and pure Regeneration and progressive Sanctification. When one comes to faith in the Lord Jesus and makes Him their savior and Lord of their life, then Regeneration and Sanctification will be present in their lives. Sadly there are dozens and dozens of professing Christians in the church, that claim Christ, yet do not live a life that glorifies him. Mat 7:21-24 NASB [Mt 7:21] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. [22] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' [23] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' [24] "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. As mentioned above in verse 24, Living Faith is a relationship with Jesus Christ (Regeneration) and a turning away from sin (progressive Sanctification). The entire book of 1 John speaks on Sanctification as the central theme. 1Jo 1:6 KJV (6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: One that claims to know Christ, yet walks in the darkness is a liar and the truth is not in him or her. Conclusion Roman Catholicism denies justification by faith alone, and requires human effort in addition to God's grace for salvation. Baptism is one of the first work requirements on a list of requirements that a Catholic has to meet in order to be saved. Read the quote below from Catholic Doctrine. "Justification has been merited for us by the passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who justifies us. It has for its goal the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life. It is the most excellent work of God's mercy,"(CCC, par.2020). Please do not confuse the statement above with Baptismal Regeneration. Baptismal Regeneration is for the most part a OneNess Pentecostal doctrine. Catholics believe in Baptismal Justification, which is entirely different. But neither Baptismal Regeneration nor Baptismal Justification are taught in the Holy Scriptures. Where Catholics get these teachings in the Bible is beyond me. They get these teachings by their traditions of men, rather than the Bible. Also where Catholics get the teachings that they have to confess their sins to a priest is also not found in the scriptures. My only guess (without doing further research on the subject) is that they get this doctrine from this verse (which taken out of CONTEXT) can be interpreted incorrectly. James 5:16 NASB Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. This like many other Catholic doctrines are traditions of men, and not of God. Jesus spoke very harshly of those that kept traditions over the Word of God. I challenge my opponent to show me where in the Bible Baptismal Justification and penance are taught. In the next round I will explain why the worship of Mary is unbiblical, ungodly, and not a practice of a regenerate believer. John Wolf Church Education Resource Ministries www.cerm.info |
#3
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Roman Catholicism vs. Protestant Christianity debate
On 31 Jan 2007 09:08:46 -0800, wrote:
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=194569 Are Catholics Christians? -- Bible John vs. seebs Yes, WE of the RCC are THE Chruch founded by Christ in 33AD. We are based on the words in the 4 Gospels, which are the words of Christ. MASS: Do this in memory of me - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1Cor 11. SACRAMENTS: Baptism - John 3:5-6, Mat 28:19 Holy Eucharist - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1 Cor 11. Confession - John 20:22-23, Mat 9:2-8 Matrimony - Ephesians 5:31 Confirmation - Ephesians 1:13, Acts 8:14-17, 19:5-6, Holy Orders - Acts 13:3 & 14:23, John 20:22, 1 & 2 Tim Anointing of the Sick - Mark 6:12-13, John 5:14 PAPACY: Mat 16:13-20, Acts 15:7 duke, American-American ***** "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer." Pope Paul VI ***** |
#4
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Roman Catholicism vs. Protestant Christianity debate
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#5
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Roman Catholicism vs. Protestant Christianity debate
spake thusly and wrote:
Are Catholics Christians? What is the difference between the trinity that the false-christian scum John Wolf worships and the trinity that the pope worships? The nutty false-christian scum John Wolf IS a trinity cultist himself! The blatant hypocrisy of false-christian scum like John Wolf says more about them than I ever could. How can these scum like John Wolf make such a blatant mockery of the Bible and still expect to be taken seriously. So far the deceiving, polytheistic false-christian dirt John Wolf always avoids answering when he is asked what the difference is between the trinity that he worships and the trinity that the pope worships. That is because, in spite of his ravings John Wolf worships the EXACT same "Romanist" god squad. In what way is John Wolf's Roman idol god squad different from the popes three headed Roman idol god squad? In what way is John Wolf's trinity cult baptism different than the pope's trinity cult baptism? John Wolf can't answer these questions without making major admissions, eh? Pastor Winter -- Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio) Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6? http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon |
#6
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Roman Catholicism vs. Protestant Christianity debate
While you're wasting time arguing and dividing. Here's a reprint of graffiti found in Christian (Catholic, Orthodox) neighborhoods in the PA.
"First we'll come for the Saturday people. Then we'll come for the Sunday people." -A. Kiker wrote in message oups.com... http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=194569 Are Catholics Christians? -- Bible John vs. seebs This thread has been set up for a formal debate between Bible John and seebs who will debate the following resolution: "Resolved: that a true Catholic cannot be a true Christian." Bible John will affirm and seebs will oppose. The debate will have 4 rounds and Bible John will go first, per the parameters. A Peanut Gallery is set up in the General Religious Discussions forum for the rest of us to comment on the debate. Enjoy the debate! Default Round Hello everyone and I want to welcome you to the debate. First before we start I want to introduce myself. The names John Wolf and I run the ministry Church Education Resource Ministries, which can be found at www.cerm.info. I am of the Reformed Baptist/Baptistic Fundamentalist tradition, and I wanted to make that 100% clear before we started. In previous debates I have only said that I was Fundamentalist, and in doing so have possibly confused others. First I'm sure you are aware of the many King James Version Only Armenian Fundamental believers, which all too often get confused with reformed. A KJVO church is really much different than a Reformed Fundamental church. Second despite what some in the peanut Galleries may say, I never once stated that all Armenians were unsaved. In this debate I will try to be as sensitive to my opponent as possible for many reasons. When I was at school I had a friend who was attracted to liturgical churches, and eventually left the Reformed Baptistic Fundamental Bible Church that we both were attending. He left our church to attend some Catholic, Lutheran or other liturgical environment. I feel sorry for him, as this in my view was his first step down the slide to theological liberalism. But in some ways I could understand why he did what he did. This friend was very excited about Theology, and gravitated very much to the many great Theologians of the past. The Reformed Baptistic Fundamental Bible Church did not teach anything other than the Bible and they valued the bold Bible preaching and Teaching of the Word of God. What historical Theologians had to say meant almost nothing at this church. My opponent like my friend values Theology and I want to respect those that value the study of Theology. My old church (also like my current one) does not seem to care about anything other than Biblical Theology, and in some ways I regret their positions. But it's really not uncommon in Fundamentalist Churches. A poster from the Peanut Galleries messaged me and told me that Fundamentalists were poor theologians and the best Theologians were in liturgical churches. I won't argue with his views. In this debate I will explain why the doctrine of Justification in the Catholic tradition is unbiblical, and next I will explain why the Catholic worship of Mary is unbiblical. I am afraid that I will not have enough time nor space to cover the other unbiblical problems in Roman Catholicism. I am not an expert on the subject and will not pretend to be the best opponent for such a debate. The resources that I will be using in this debate are as follows. 1. The Bible- Mostly the King James and the New American Standard versions. 2. New Dictionary of Theology 3. A half dozen websites 4. Pastor John MacArthur's exposing Mary worship in Roman Catholicism CD set In this round I will be discussing and comparing the Christian and Catholic versions of the Doctrine of Justification. In the next round I will be exposing Mary Worship in the Roman Catholic Church. The Protestant Doctrine of Justification Justification is a divine act of God, where God himself declares the sinner to be innocent and free from his or her sins. God declares the sinner righteous and free from the pit of Hell and eternal separation from God. In Christian Theology Justification is only through the Lord Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for the sins of all mankind on the cross at Calvary. (Rom 5:9 KJV) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. In Christian Theology Justification is a gift of grace and not by works. (Rom 3:24 KJV) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (Tit 3:7 KJV) That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Justification only comes through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone. (Rom 3:28 KJV) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Rom 5:1 KJV) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: If someone receives the Lord Jesus Christ into their hearts and accepts His sacrifice for their sins they are justified from their sin. This is quite different from Roman Catholic Theology, which I will be later discussing. (Joh 1:12 KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (1Pe 2:24 KJV) Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. By doing this these are justified in the sight of God. One of the major distinctions between Christian Theology and Catholic Theology is that to the Christian Justification is not by works, but by Grace alone. The passage below is the most popular of the grace passages. Eph 2:8-9 KJV (8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. You see in Christian Theology, the Bible makes it very clear that man's works alone are nothing but dirty stinky rags before an all- powerful and all mighty God. Isa 64:6 KJV (6) But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. God is not in the least impressed with the works of a man. Even the most clean of unbelievers, is dirty before God. Of course I believe in degrees of punishment in Hell and degrees of reward in Heaven. I believe that the most holy of all unbelievers might get a different Hell than an Adolph Hitler, or a Spiritual Terrorist, but still they go to the same Hell. The scripture below is one passage of many that speaks of degrees of punishment in Hell. The context in Jude is speaking of the false teachers. Jud 1:12-13 KJV (12) These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; (13) Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. Salvation is a free gift, and cannot be earned. Mankind cannot work his or her way into salvation and freedom from the pit of Hell. Once in a Sunday school in a contemporary Evangelical church a pastor once told a story that helped explain the doctrine of Justification. The story is below. Trying to earn your way to salvation is like trying to swim from California to Hawaii. No man or woman can do it. Some may get closer to Hawaii than others, yet no one attempting the feat could ever accomplish it. Olympic swimmers may get the farthest, yet they also will die. Instead of trying to swim to Hawaii, the safest way to get there would be to fly. In the same way, what Jesus did was he provided salvation and freedom from eternal death. Kinda like an airplane will provide freedom from death in the ocean by trying to swim there. Accepting Jesus is like accepting a ride in the airplane as a means to get to Hawaii. Even one of the most liberal Evangelical Churches in the Bay Area Peninsula (whom I mailed John MacArthurs book Ashamed of the Gospel, When the Church Becomes like the World) agrees with me on the doctrine of Justification. I have never once called this church a cult, nor have I ever labeled them Spiritual Terrorists. My critics think that I hate all those that disagree with me, but this is a flat out lie. While me and this church strongly disagree on our ministry philosophies, and our theology in many secondary areas, I do realize that many of the attendees at this church, the staff and pastoral team will be in Heaven with me. But until that time, I wont associate with them. The Roman Catholic Doctrine of Justification The Catholic version of the doctrine of Justification is quite different. Below are some quotes from Catholic doctrine. "If any one saith, that thy faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him by anathema" (From the Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9). "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema" (Canon 14). Do any of you know what the harsh word anathema means? According to Roman Catholic Theology it means simply excommunication, or in the Greek it can be translated as accursed and condemned. This language is very harsh, and what I personally use to refer to certain members of unorthodox Christian groups on Usenet Newsgroups. In the same way in Catholic theology, all protestants are unorthodox and anathema. So to put it simply, in Roman Catholic Theology a Christian doctrine of Justification is a false doctrine. To the Catholic Theologian Christianity is false. I think that if Catholics could differentiate between the orthodox and unorthodox Christians, they might have a point. But the Catholic Theologian can't tell the difference between Reformed Baptist/Baptistic Fundamentalism, OneNess Pentecostalism, or the ecumenical movement of theological liberalism. I have tried to persuade Catholics that not all Christians are the same, and I have gotten angry with some of them for stereotyping all Protestants as one and the same. I have told some of them that my ministry has no associations with anyone associated with Theological Liberalism, yet they continue to stereo type and put me into the same category as them. I hate stereotypes, yet can't do a thing about them. The Catholic Church does not state anywhere that salvation comes from grace. Based on my research (and personnel experience with Catholics) I have heard them quoting a verse in the NT which is below. Jam 2:24 KJV (24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Catholics believe that works is a part of salvation. I believe they think this because they read James and the entire NT out of CONTEXT. If one were to look at the entire CONTEXT of the book of James they would see that the contrast in the passage is in reference to Dead Faith vs. Living Faith. Dead faith would be only an acknowledgment as Jesus as Lord, but without real and pure Regeneration and progressive Sanctification. When one comes to faith in the Lord Jesus and makes Him their savior and Lord of their life, then Regeneration and Sanctification will be present in their lives. Sadly there are dozens and dozens of professing Christians in the church, that claim Christ, yet do not live a life that glorifies him. Mat 7:21-24 NASB [Mt 7:21] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. [22] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' [23] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' [24] "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. As mentioned above in verse 24, Living Faith is a relationship with Jesus Christ (Regeneration) and a turning away from sin (progressive Sanctification). The entire book of 1 John speaks on Sanctification as the central theme. 1Jo 1:6 KJV (6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: One that claims to know Christ, yet walks in the darkness is a liar and the truth is not in him or her. Conclusion Roman Catholicism denies justification by faith alone, and requires human effort in addition to God's grace for salvation. Baptism is one of the first work requirements on a list of requirements that a Catholic has to meet in order to be saved. Read the quote below from Catholic Doctrine. "Justification has been merited for us by the passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who justifies us. It has for its goal the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life. It is the most excellent work of God's mercy,"(CCC, par.2020). Please do not confuse the statement above with Baptismal Regeneration. Baptismal Regeneration is for the most part a OneNess Pentecostal doctrine. Catholics believe in Baptismal Justification, which is entirely different. But neither Baptismal Regeneration nor Baptismal Justification are taught in the Holy Scriptures. Where Catholics get these teachings in the Bible is beyond me. They get these teachings by their traditions of men, rather than the Bible. Also where Catholics get the teachings that they have to confess their sins to a priest is also not found in the scriptures. My only guess (without doing further research on the subject) is that they get this doctrine from this verse (which taken out of CONTEXT) can be interpreted incorrectly. James 5:16 NASB Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. This like many other Catholic doctrines are traditions of men, and not of God. Jesus spoke very harshly of those that kept traditions over the Word of God. I challenge my opponent to show me where in the Bible Baptismal Justification and penance are taught. In the next round I will explain why the worship of Mary is unbiblical, ungodly, and not a practice of a regenerate believer. John Wolf Church Education Resource Ministries www.cerm.info |
#7
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Roman Catholicism vs. Protestant Christianity debate
In article .com,
wrote: http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=194569 Are Catholics Christians? -- Bible John vs. seebs SNIP This is the internet pest John Wolf of the sixty five and more unannounced aliases yet again CERM is his scam which he uses to seek funds from the gullible to avoid actually doing any real work John has published some interesting material in which he as a non parent expresses his interest in spanking little girls and boys Nuff said More than enuff ++++++++++++ |
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