Choice for Men FAQ

Your case in Canada.. I wouldn't be to sure if an amout as to what
your talking about isn't Taxable.. I think the Guidelines could say up
to a certain amount... But I could be wrong..

But even that said.. He can still right off any money given to her in
Child Support. It's still a Tax Right off for the guy.

And back to this Basic Argument of being half her responsibility.
I'm not trying to write her out of the picture at all.. I totally agree
with the idea tha she needs to deal with her own actions..

However our courts have decided in the Past that the right of Woman
to do with her Body as she feels fit is equal to that of a Guy. It
would equate to someone asking you... why didn't you cut off your
Testicles to ensure that no sperm was produced... something we could
never fathom..

And again this isn't a Sexist... Feminist point of view. I do agree
with Abortion. I have infact helped a few women through an Abortion...
not as the expecting father, but as a friend..

But since the right of Women to choose what to do to their bodies
exsists... you eithr need to fight the courts on this right. To be
able to force a Woman into Abortion.. which let me tell you is a losing
battle because you will need to be able to prove that a Vast Majority,
not a small Minority, of women are incapable of making such a choice
for the Courts, not the Gov, to remove such a right.

So instead of trying to fight a losing battle... one that you will
spend way to much time.. and money to find this out. Try it from the
other end. They Say knowledge is Power. So use Knowledge in teaching
our youth.

Use your Horror Stories of what could happen. Consider them
Casualties of War. In every war you win a few battles.. you lose a few
battles... In this case the War your trying to fight is like trying to
storngly fortified Encampment.

So instead of fighting the Fort Dead on... use the tatic of cutting
off the Supply Line. If they have no Ammo to shoot... guess what they
can't hit anyone. If they have no food for Soldiers.. Guess what they
will starve.

In a way we do hold all the cards... But only how we decide to play
them will determine if we win or lose.

I would rather much see Time and Effort go into educating our Young
Men out there in way of ensuring tings like this will never happen.
Thats a battle I'm pretty sure we can win, or at least gain far larger
support for.

Again I do feel for my fellow Men who have been hit by such a thing
as the Big Old Mean Nasty Woman... but why do we keep giving them the
Ammo to fight the War... It would be like giving the Germans in WW2
the means in which to Cripple the Allied Forces. It's just bloody poor
planning.

And again my Case is not unique as I know of at leasr 10 othr Single
Fathers out there whom I communicate on a regular basis. And the
numbers are growing. As Courts are more and More in favour of
Stability of the Child versus the want or needs of any single Parent.

I still have yet to see one argument from your group that would
indicate that the Man did all he needed to do ensure she would not
become pregnant. In every single case you have provided thus far...
You are leaving to chance that the Woman will make the correct
decision...

And then after the fact you Bitch and Complain that she didn't make
decision that was in favour of what the guy wanted... If you know this
going into the deal... That would be like buying a Business that makes
Lead Based Paint. Knowing full well you'll never be able to sell it
anywhere... but on the off chance that the Government may change their
mind...

It's time we all wake up to REALITY and live in such. The only way
things are going to change is if we take the means needed to ensure
such a change... Bitching about what so and so did to so and so.. is
not going to change the Course of the War.. it's going to take some
Hard choices for my fellow Men..

And that may include right up to not having Sex to ensure they don't
evr have to pay Child Support for a Child they do not want... I hear
Rosy-O-Palm and her five Sisters are alwys availbe. Get some Vasoline
and have fun.

SpiderHam77

"SpiderHam77" ) writes:
Your case in Canada.. I wouldn't be to sure if an amout as to what
your talking about isn't Taxable.. I think the Guidelines could say up
to a certain amount... But I could be wrong..

You are quite wrong. The regs on who pays the income taxes on Child
Support was changed in 1997. Orders made since then have the CS taxable
at the payor's end, and tax free to the recipient.

But even that said.. He can still right off any money given to her in
Child Support. It's still a Tax Right off for the guy.

Wrong.

And back to this Basic Argument of being half her responsibility.
I'm not trying to write her out of the picture at all.. I totally agree
with the idea tha she needs to deal with her own actions..

Just not pay for them... Uh huh.

However our courts have decided in the Past that the right of Woman
to do with her Body as she feels fit is equal to that of a Guy.

No, its *superior* to that of a guy's. She can do what she wants, and
he can do, and *pay*, what *she* wants.

It would equate to someone asking you... why didn't you cut off your
Testicles to ensure that no sperm was produced... something we could
never fathom..

Some courts have asked guys that question.

And again this isn't a Sexist... Feminist point of view. I do agree
with Abortion. I have infact helped a few women through an Abortion...
not as the expecting father, but as a friend..

Now, have you done anything to help men ? Didn't think so, so you ARE
a sexist.

But since the right of Women to choose what to do to their bodies
exsists... you eithr need to fight the courts on this right. To be
able to force a Woman into Abortion..

Who the **** suggested that ? C4M only seeks to have the man not be
stuck with no post coital rights to say no, and to not pay, if his
agreement to do so wasn't *priorly* given.

Thats has *nothing* to do with either making women get abortions, or
not get them. Thats ONLY about making women be 100% responsible for
THEIR SOLE CHOICES and their consequences.

The point being, ladies, if you want the guy to be a co-parent and/or
just pay money... ASK him FIRST if he wants to become a parent.

If you didn't ask FIRST, then you have NO claim to his time and/or money.
Period.

which let me tell you is a losing
battle because you will need to be able to prove that a Vast Majority,
not a small Minority, of women are incapable of making such a choice
for the Courts, not the Gov, to remove such a right.

Ibid.

So instead of trying to fight a losing battle... one that you will
spend way to much time.. and money to find this out. Try it from the
other end. They Say knowledge is Power. So use Knowledge in teaching
our youth.

Ibid.

Use your Horror Stories of what could happen. Consider them
Casualties of War. In every war you win a few battles.. you lose a few
battles... In this case the War your trying to fight is like trying to
storngly fortified Encampment.

So instead of fighting the Fort Dead on... use the tatic of cutting
off the Supply Line. If they have no Ammo to shoot... guess what they
can't hit anyone. If they have no food for Soldiers.. Guess what they
will starve.

In a way we do hold all the cards... But only how we decide to play
them will determine if we win or lose.

I would rather much see Time and Effort go into educating our Young
Men out there in way of ensuring tings like this will never happen.
Thats a battle I'm pretty sure we can win, or at least gain far larger
support for.

Again I do feel for my fellow Men who have been hit by such a thing
as the Big Old Mean Nasty Woman... but why do we keep giving them the
Ammo to fight the War... It would be like giving the Germans in WW2
the means in which to Cripple the Allied Forces. It's just bloody poor
planning.

And again my Case is not unique as I know of at leasr 10 othr Single
Fathers out there whom I communicate on a regular basis. And the
numbers are growing. As Courts are more and More in favour of
Stability of the Child versus the want or needs of any single Parent.

I still have yet to see one argument from your group that would
indicate that the Man did all he needed to do ensure she would not
become pregnant.

Why the **** is that HIS job ? It's HER body, let HER be 100% responsible
for what SHE chooses to do with it.

In every single case you have provided thus far...
You are leaving to chance that the Woman will make the correct
decision...

Wrong.

And then after the fact you Bitch and Complain that she didn't make
decision that was in favour of what the guy wanted... If you know this
going into the deal... That would be like buying a Business that makes
Lead Based Paint. Knowing full well you'll never be able to sell it
anywhere... but on the off chance that the Government may change their
mind...

Utterly irrelevent.

It's time we all wake up to REALITY and live in such. The only way
things are going to change is if we take the means needed to ensure
such a change... Bitching about what so and so did to so and so.. is
not going to change the Course of the War.. it's going to take some
Hard choices for my fellow Men..

And that may include right up to not having Sex to ensure they don't
evr have to pay Child Support for a Child they do not want... I hear
Rosy-O-Palm and her five Sisters are alwys availbe. Get some Vasoline
and have fun.

So, did you ever tell those women you " helped " get abortions,
" Hey, if you don't want to be made a mommy, I hear that chuck vibrator
is always available. "

Why do you believe that POST-COITAL choices are ONLY for women ?

Thats... SEXIST. Of YOU.

Andre

--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.

"SpiderHam77" ) writes:
Your case in Canada.. I wouldn't be to sure if an amout as to what
your talking about isn't Taxable.. I think the Guidelines could say up
to a certain amount... But I could be wrong..

You are quite wrong. The regs on who pays the income taxes on Child
Support was changed in 1997. Orders made since then have the CS taxable
at the payor's end, and tax free to the recipient.

But even that said.. He can still right off any money given to her in
Child Support. It's still a Tax Right off for the guy.

Wrong.

And back to this Basic Argument of being half her responsibility.
I'm not trying to write her out of the picture at all.. I totally agree
with the idea tha she needs to deal with her own actions..

Just not pay for them... Uh huh.

However our courts have decided in the Past that the right of Woman
to do with her Body as she feels fit is equal to that of a Guy.

No, its *superior* to that of a guy's. She can do what she wants, and
he can do, and *pay*, what *she* wants.

It would equate to someone asking you... why didn't you cut off your
Testicles to ensure that no sperm was produced... something we could
never fathom..

Some courts have asked guys that question.

And again this isn't a Sexist... Feminist point of view. I do agree
with Abortion. I have infact helped a few women through an Abortion...
not as the expecting father, but as a friend..

Now, have you done anything to help men ? Didn't think so, so you ARE
a sexist.

But since the right of Women to choose what to do to their bodies
exsists... you eithr need to fight the courts on this right. To be
able to force a Woman into Abortion..

Who the **** suggested that ? C4M only seeks to have the man not be
stuck with no post coital rights to say no, and to not pay, if his
agreement to do so wasn't *priorly* given.

Thats has *nothing* to do with either making women get abortions, or
not get them. Thats ONLY about making women be 100% responsible for
THEIR SOLE CHOICES and their consequences.

The point being, ladies, if you want the guy to be a co-parent and/or
just pay money... ASK him FIRST if he wants to become a parent.

If you didn't ask FIRST, then you have NO claim to his time and/or money.
Period.

which let me tell you is a losing
battle because you will need to be able to prove that a Vast Majority,
not a small Minority, of women are incapable of making such a choice
for the Courts, not the Gov, to remove such a right.

Ibid.

So instead of trying to fight a losing battle... one that you will
spend way to much time.. and money to find this out. Try it from the
other end. They Say knowledge is Power. So use Knowledge in teaching
our youth.

Ibid.

Use your Horror Stories of what could happen. Consider them
Casualties of War. In every war you win a few battles.. you lose a few
battles... In this case the War your trying to fight is like trying to
storngly fortified Encampment.

So instead of fighting the Fort Dead on... use the tatic of cutting
off the Supply Line. If they have no Ammo to shoot... guess what they
can't hit anyone. If they have no food for Soldiers.. Guess what they
will starve.

In a way we do hold all the cards... But only how we decide to play
them will determine if we win or lose.

I would rather much see Time and Effort go into educating our Young
Men out there in way of ensuring tings like this will never happen.
Thats a battle I'm pretty sure we can win, or at least gain far larger
support for.

Again I do feel for my fellow Men who have been hit by such a thing
as the Big Old Mean Nasty Woman... but why do we keep giving them the
Ammo to fight the War... It would be like giving the Germans in WW2
the means in which to Cripple the Allied Forces. It's just bloody poor
planning.

And again my Case is not unique as I know of at leasr 10 othr Single
Fathers out there whom I communicate on a regular basis. And the
numbers are growing. As Courts are more and More in favour of
Stability of the Child versus the want or needs of any single Parent.

I still have yet to see one argument from your group that would
indicate that the Man did all he needed to do ensure she would not
become pregnant.

Why the **** is that HIS job ? It's HER body, let HER be 100% responsible
for what SHE chooses to do with it.

In every single case you have provided thus far...
You are leaving to chance that the Woman will make the correct
decision...

Wrong.

And then after the fact you Bitch and Complain that she didn't make
decision that was in favour of what the guy wanted... If you know this
going into the deal... That would be like buying a Business that makes
Lead Based Paint. Knowing full well you'll never be able to sell it
anywhere... but on the off chance that the Government may change their
mind...

Utterly irrelevent.

It's time we all wake up to REALITY and live in such. The only way
things are going to change is if we take the means needed to ensure
such a change... Bitching about what so and so did to so and so.. is
not going to change the Course of the War.. it's going to take some
Hard choices for my fellow Men..

And that may include right up to not having Sex to ensure they don't
evr have to pay Child Support for a Child they do not want... I hear
Rosy-O-Palm and her five Sisters are alwys availbe. Get some Vasoline
and have fun.

So, did you ever tell those women you " helped " get abortions,
" Hey, if you don't want to be made a mommy, I hear that chuck vibrator
is always available. "

Why do you believe that POST-COITAL choices are ONLY for women ?

Thats... SEXIST. Of YOU.

Andre
--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.

How is it sexist... It's Reality... We have a set of laws that have
been established... and ruled on by a Majority of the Country... And
the problem with living in a Democracy is that Majority Rules.

So instead of fighting a battle that as NCP who do not their children
by getting them to change the in your Favour... Try the other way
around.. Work the laws to your advantage.

If you know walking into the deal.. that she could in fact get
pregnant... then why not fight the battles you can win. Fighting a
losing battle is going to do nothing but kill alot of Soldiers.

And again it's not that I believe Post-Coital choices are only for
women.. I just understand that the system that is currently set up
dictates as such. So since we still have to operate within the
confines of Reality and Laws of the Country... fight the Battle you
can win.

At the moment you are trying to assult a Fortress ontop of a Hill...
Fortified... and well armed Soldiers... Instead of trying assult it
head on... Try a different method.. one that has worked through the
Years..

Cut off the supply lines. If these women have no Sperm from Men to
get Pregnant with... then low and behold you will not a have a
problem... I do feel for my fellow Men who have been taken through the
ringer.. but in everywar there are Casulities...

Why not use these Stories as Ammo in teaching Young Men what could
happen if they are not careful. Level the Playing field...

And the women I have helped go through an Abortion... I told them it
was their own fault for getting pregnant.. they should of known to
watch out for a Guy who would split the moment something happend...

But it's still there Right to have as defined by the Laws of the
Country... So who am I denie someone the right to choose what to do
with his or her own body... So I helped her through it.

The moment you deposit Sperm into a Women... you have given her the
right to do with it as she pleases.. Or better you've given nature the
Ability to decide what to do with it. If you were really concerned
with her having permission to have your Sperm in the first place you
would of not given it to her.. and taken steps needed to ensure she
would not get ahold of it...

Ignorance and Stupidity is not a Defence for not thinking before
acting.

And I have done things to help Men. Young men as a matter of fact...
I run classes for young people... about how choices they make in their
lives will effect them down the road.

If they learn anything or not is up in the air.. You can lead a horse
to Water but you cannot force it to drink. But we've been able to
prove in Society the more and More you educate people on something..
the less and less it's likely to happen.

Think about 20 years ago... The idea of contracting Aids... people
honestly thought that only Gay Men could contract the Disease.. and so
alot of people didn't worry about it... But now the use of Condoms has
risen 300% over the past 20 years.. And continues to grow, Why because
of the Education we have put out there about it.

I do know that Child Support given is not Taxable to the Payee.. but
the Payor can still write it off on their taxes as an Expense. I know
this because it's on the Tax Forms... in the Deductions Sections.

You all are fighting a losing Battle.. Trust me I dislike these women
who use Men as a Paycheque and figured out how to do it with
Children... But I'm a realist and live in the Here and now... and
Realise that at the moment they are hold alot of the cards..

Seems only a few of Men have taken it upon themselves to ensure they
will never get the upper hand on us. And this is through simple, well
thought planning prior to making an act that we know will alter our
lives as we know it..

Why not use the Brains that God has given us.. and put them to good
use in finding a way of quelling this problem before it begins.. There
is a Term my father taught me that seems to apply well here...

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. And the simplest form of action that I
can seen being done here is by ensuring we stop adding fuel to this
fire.. and instead start removing it.

I'm still having trouble thinking that I am exception to all my
Fellow Men out there in that I was able to sit down, think about my
actions prior to making them, and come out as the Victor.

Again this isn't rocket Science we're talking about here.. We aren't
trying to part the Waters.. well maybe your group is... We simply have
to tackle this problem from another angle...

And I have heard this entire Argument before... Didn't make Sense 10
years ago.. still doesn't make sense now for a simple reason... you
need to know that for every action there is a reaction..

You know having Sex is the primary way in which Women become
Pregnant.. unless this has changed over the years as the Primary
method... Which is hasn't

We know from Statistics.. Far more women are more likely to want to
keep a child after concieving it... Hormones... affection.. who knows
why..

We know once this Fetus is brought to term it will indeed become a
child. And therefore once born will become half your responsibilty as
the Father.. whether you like it or not...

So instead of trying to affect the end we have very little control
over... WOMEN as they are all indpendent people... Why not affect the
side of things we can affect.. our Actions..

I know this may not sound pleasent to alot of you as that would mean
you may have to keep it in your pants for night... But would you rather
get laid for night... or have to deal with a kid for the next 18 years
of your life...

SpiderHam77

How is it sexist... It's Reality... We have a set of laws that have
been established... and ruled on by a Majority of the Country... And
the problem with living in a Democracy is that Majority Rules.


So instead of fighting a battle that as NCP who do not their children

by getting them to change the in your Favour... Try the other way
around.. Work the laws to your advantage.


If you know walking into the deal.. that she could in fact get
pregnant... then why not fight the battles you can win. Fighting a
losing battle is going to do nothing but kill alot of Soldiers.


And again it's not that I believe Post-Coital choices are only for
women.. I just understand that the system that is currently set up
dictates as such. So since we still have to operate within the
confines of Reality and Laws of the Country... fight the Battle you
can win.


At the moment you are trying to assult a Fortress ontop of a Hill...
Fortified... and well armed Soldiers... Instead of trying assult it
head on... Try a different method.. one that has worked through the
Years..


Cut off the supply lines. If these women have no Sperm from Men to
get Pregnant with... then low and behold you will not a have a
problem... I do feel for my fellow Men who have been taken through the

ringer.. but in everywar there are Casulities...


Why not use these Stories as Ammo in teaching Young Men what could
happen if they are not careful. Level the Playing field...


And the women I have helped go through an Abortion... I told them it
was their own fault for getting pregnant.. they should of known to
watch out for a Guy who would split the moment something happend...


But it's still there Right to have as defined by the Laws of the
Country... So who am I denie someone the right to choose what to do
with his or her own body... So I helped her through it.


The moment you deposit Sperm into a Women... you have given her the
right to do with it as she pleases.. Or better you've given nature the
Ability to decide what to do with it. If you were really concerned
with her having permission to have your Sperm in the first place you
would of not given it to her.. and taken steps needed to ensure she
would not get ahold of it...


Ignorance and Stupidity is not a Defence for not thinking before
acting.


And I have done things to help Men. Young men as a matter of fact...

I run classes for young people... about how choices they make in their
lives will effect them down the road.


If they learn anything or not is up in the air.. You can lead a horse

to Water but you cannot force it to drink. But we've been able to
prove in Society the more and More you educate people on something..
the less and less it's likely to happen.


Think about 20 years ago... The idea of contracting Aids... people
honestly thought that only Gay Men could contract the Disease.. and so
alot of people didn't worry about it... But now the use of Condoms has
risen 300% over the past 20 years.. And continues to grow, Why because
of the Education we have put out there about it.


I do know that Child Support given is not Taxable to the Payee.. but
the Payor can still write it off on their taxes as an Expense. I know
this because it's on the Tax Forms... in the Deductions Sections.


You all are fighting a losing Battle.. Trust me I dislike these women

who use Men as a Paycheque and figured out how to do it with
Children... But I'm a realist and live in the Here and now... and
Realise that at the moment they are hold alot of the cards..


Seems only a few of Men have taken it upon themselves to ensure they
will never get the upper hand on us. And this is through simple, well
thought planning prior to making an act that we know will alter our
lives as we know it..


Why not use the Brains that God has given us.. and put them to good
use in finding a way of quelling this problem before it begins.. There
is a Term my father taught me that seems to apply well here...


KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. And the simplest form of action that I
can seen being done here is by ensuring we stop adding fuel to this
fire.. and instead start removing it.


I'm still having trouble thinking that I am exception to all my
Fellow Men out there in that I was able to sit down, think about my
actions prior to making them, and come out as the Victor.


Again this isn't rocket Science we're talking about here.. We aren't
trying to part the Waters.. well maybe your group is... We simply have
to tackle this problem from another angle...


And I have heard this entire Argument before... Didn't make Sense 10
years ago.. still doesn't make sense now for a simple reason... you
need to know that for every action there is a reaction..


You know having Sex is the primary way in which Women become
Pregnant.. unless this has changed over the years as the Primary
method... Which is hasn't


We know from Statistics.. Far more women are more likely to want to
keep a child after concieving it... Hormones... affection.. who knows
why..


We know once this Fetus is brought to term it will indeed become a
child. And therefore once born will become half your responsibilty as
the Father.. whether you like it or not...


So instead of trying to affect the end we have very little control
over... WOMEN as they are all indpendent people... Why not affect the
side of things we can affect.. our Actions..


I know this may not sound pleasent to alot of you as that would mean
you may have to keep it in your pants for night... But would you rather

get laid for night... or have to deal with a kid for the next 18 years
of your life...


SpiderHam77

"SpiderHam77" ) writes:
How is it sexist... It's Reality...

Realities can change...

We have a set of laws that have been established...

So can laws...

and ruled on by a Majority of the Country...

Really ? There was a referendum ? Care to post proof of this ?

And the problem with living in a Democracy is that Majority Rules.

Ibid.

So instead of fighting a battle that as NCP who do not their children
by getting them to change the in your Favour... Try the other way
around.. Work the laws to your advantage.

You first.

If you know walking into the deal.. that she could in fact get
pregnant... then why not fight the battles you can win. Fighting a
losing battle is going to do nothing but kill alot of Soldiers.

Wrong. Thats defeatist talk.

And again it's not that I believe Post-Coital choices are only for
women.. I just understand that the system that is currently set up
dictates as such. So since we still have to operate within the
confines of Reality and Laws of the Country... fight the Battle you
can win.

Ibid.

At the moment you are trying to assult a Fortress ontop of a Hill...
Fortified... and well armed Soldiers... Instead of trying assult it
head on... Try a different method.. one that has worked through the
Years..

No proof offered ? Claim fails.

Cut off the supply lines. If these women have no Sperm from Men to
get Pregnant with... then low and behold you will not a have a
problem... I do feel for my fellow Men who have been taken through the
ringer.. but in everywar there are Casulities...

Your compassion for your fellow men is touching... sarcasm mode off

Why not use these Stories as Ammo in teaching Young Men what could
happen if they are not careful. Level the Playing field...

Did anyone suggest not telling young men ? Please play with your
straw women on your own time.

And the women I have helped go through an Abortion... I told them it
was their own fault for getting pregnant.. they should of known to
watch out for a Guy who would split the moment something happend...

Aha, still " always blame the guy " misandrist sexist crap from you.

How about telling them " thats what you get, for NOT getting a willing
man to be your co-parent, FIRST ? "

Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility*. "

But it's still there Right to have as defined by the Laws of the
Country... So who am I denie someone the right to choose what to do
with his or her own body... So I helped her through it.

Quisling.

The moment you deposit Sperm into a Women... you have given her the
right to do with it as she pleases.. Or better you've given nature the
Ability to decide what to do with it.

Free Clue: Nature doesn't force money out of men's hands.

If you were really concerned
with her having permission to have your Sperm in the first place you
would of not given it to her.. and taken steps needed to ensure she
would not get ahold of it...

Yep, still blaming men for *women's actions and choices*. Sexist.

Ignorance and Stupidity is not a Defence for not thinking before
acting.

Ever tell women that line ?

And I have done things to help Men. Young men as a matter of fact...

No proof offered ? Claim fails.

I run classes for young people... about how choices they make in their
lives will effect them down the road.

Based on your writings here, I would advise such young men to flee.

If they learn anything or not is up in the air.. You can lead a horse
to Water but you cannot force it to drink. But we've been able to
prove in Society the more and More you educate people on something..
the less and less it's likely to happen.

So, educate the uterus holders.

Think about 20 years ago... The idea of contracting Aids... people
honestly thought that only Gay Men could contract the Disease.. and so
alot of people didn't worry about it... But now the use of Condoms has
risen 300% over the past 20 years.. And continues to grow, Why because
of the Education we have put out there about it.

Did anyone say that was bad ? No, so again with your straw women...

I do know that Child Support given is not Taxable to the Payee.. but
the Payor can still write it off on their taxes as an Expense.

Nope.

I know this because it's on the Tax Forms... in the Deductions Sections.

Yes, and it tells you to enter only the *deductible amount*, with that
NOT being the amount that was actually paid out. It sends you to a
Support Payments Guide, which, as a non payor of support ( Having no
kids ), I don't have. But, that the basic guide differentiates between
amounts paid and *deductible* amounts, is key.

Further, the amount paid includes payments for a spouse, or common-
law partner, as well as a child, so those first two don't get affected
by Child Support tax regs.

You all are fighting a losing Battle.. Trust me I dislike these women
who use Men as a Paycheque and figured out how to do it with
Children... But I'm a realist and live in the Here and now... and
Realise that at the moment they are hold alot of the cards..

So, lets work to get those cards loose. Rather than give up like a
Quisling.

Seems only a few of Men have taken it upon themselves to ensure they
will never get the upper hand on us. And this is through simple, well
thought planning prior to making an act that we know will alter our
lives as we know it..

Empty babble.

Why not use the Brains that God has given us.. and put them to good
use in finding a way of quelling this problem before it begins.. There
is a Term my father taught me that seems to apply well here...

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. And the simplest form of action that I
can seen being done here is by ensuring we stop adding fuel to this
fire.. and instead start removing it.

Good ! Start with removing it from those women !

I'm still having trouble thinking that I am exception to all my
Fellow Men out there in that I was able to sit down, think about my
actions prior to making them, and come out as the Victor.

Thats your problem. The FACTS say that thats the way it is. Do
some research, and be less... ignorant.

Again this isn't rocket Science we're talking about here.. We aren't
trying to part the Waters.. well maybe your group is... We simply have
to tackle this problem from another angle...

Why ? Yours is the old, failed often angle. Only mad people would try
what *has never worked* again.

And I have heard this entire Argument before... Didn't make Sense 10
years ago.. still doesn't make sense now for a simple reason... you
need to know that for every action there is a reaction..

Indeed. For unjust Child Support laws, there are men who will defy
them, and fight them.

You know having Sex is the primary way in which Women become
Pregnant.. unless this has changed over the years as the Primary
method... Which is hasn't

See " Birth Control ", loon.

We know from Statistics.. Far more women are more likely to want to
keep a child after concieving it... Hormones... affection.. who knows
why..

So ? Thats not the issue. Let 'em keep all the baybies they want. Let
them PAY for them in exact proportion to the choicemaking:

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility* ".

We know once this Fetus is brought to term it will indeed become a
child. And therefore once born will become half your responsibilty as
the Father.. whether you like it or not...

Nope. See C4M.

So instead of trying to affect the end we have very little control
over... WOMEN as they are all indpendent people... Why not affect the
side of things we can affect.. our Actions..

And, the unjust laws. Thats how unjust laws get changed.

I know this may not sound pleasent to alot of you as that would mean
you may have to keep it in your pants for night... But would you rather
get laid for night... or have to deal with a kid for the next 18 years
of your life...

No, I'd rather work to bring JUSTICE back to that area of sexist law.

Your harping on men, when its NOT men doing this, is piggish and
sexist of you.

Misandrist. We DON'T need your kind of defeatist " help ". Go away.

Andre

--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.

"SpiderHam77" wrote in message
oups.com...
How is it sexist... It's Reality... We have a set of laws that have
been established... and ruled on by a Majority of the Country... And
the problem with living in a Democracy is that Majority Rules.

[snip]

The US is (according to the Constitution) a democratic REPUBLIC. It is NOT
a DEMOCRACY. Unless you're a liberal.

Dang, Spider, I thought -I- was long winded...

SpiderHam77 wrote:
SpiderHam77 wrote:
The same argument can be held that if I drink and drive.. and end up
killing somone... well it's not totally my fault... the Alchol impaired
my judgment... and then that Pesky Meridian on the road failed to stop
me as I drove over it... And well it's not my fault that the person
died as a result.


..................yes, and what's the point?

The Point... Well I thought that would be Simple. You cannot use
your own Stupidiy as a Defence.

If you don't understand that having Sex will eventually create
Children, then either you need to re-attend Highschool and take Bio
again, or read Closely.

IF YOU HAVE SEX BE PREPARED THAT A CHILD MAY BE CREADTED AS A RESULT.


Hope that clarifies a bit.

This analogy and argument is dishonest: Nobody is disputing that
sex results in possible pregnancy. The issue is whether
a man should be held responsible for the woman's sole choice
to have children through requirements to pay child-support
to her.

If we were to look at the alcohol analogy, it could be argued
that women increase their risk of being raped by consuming
alcoholic beverages. Should she then accept equal liability
for such an event if it occurs?

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

Intersting thought about the Alcohol.. I do like it... however.. the
only problem I see in it is that you used the Term Rape... The the same
argument that Wife Beaters use... She had it coming to her...

If she gets drunk.. has sex... and becomes pregnant... Well both
parties have to take 50% of the repsonibilty... I understand.. and
it's unfortunate that she does in fact carry 100% of the decision as to
if she will carry the Child to term...

However our Law Makers have made this Decision. And we have elected
them into Office to make that Decsion.. and the Courts of the Country
have upheld it... Which before one of you start spouting off I'm a
Sexist.. blah Blah... whatever... To Date... as far as I can see the
Vast Majority of Members in the House and in the Courts are in fact
Men.

And they through debates have decided that Women shall have this
right. Just as we men have the right to choose to have a Vasectomy..
they have the Right to choose to have an Abortion.

And the People of Gov... Alot of Men... have decided that Child
Support laws are in fact needed to protect the needs of the child, and
take the cost off the Government.. And make people responsible for the
actions they make...

Again I have just have trouble understanding how if you knew full
well that a child may infact be created... and that you didn't take the
steps needed to ensure one wouldn't... why should you not be held
responsible for your actions...

That would be like commiting a crime.. and expecting the State not to
prosecute you because you didn't understand what you did was a Crime...
Again Ignorance, or Stupidity is not a Defence.

Now as I have stated I do believe there needs to be reform in the way
of Child Support laws.. there needs to be 1 Universal System in
place... and then extreme cases can be argued against it... But if you
set 1 ruler which all cases are judged against then everyone becomes
the same...

And I do think in the States at least there needs to be reforms in
how Support is collected.. and that it needs to be tied directly to
Income. If you make a X amount... and you can prove it, then you are
only required to pay X amount of Money in Child Support.

Like I have said.. here in Canada for insatance a Garnishment of
Wages can be obtained.. but they are only allowed to Garnish a Max of
30% of your Take Home Income.. To ensure that people have enough to
live on.

So if you make 1000 a month say... A random number.. the most you
could ever expect to pay is 300 in Child support... However if you only
make that much an order that high in support Payments would never be
issued.. just being used as an example...

SpiderHam77

"SpiderHam77" ) writes:
Intersting thought about the Alcohol.. I do like it... however.. the
only problem I see in it is that you used the Term Rape... The the same
argument that Wife Beaters use... She had it coming to her...

And, that single by choice women use to get men's money... " he had it
coming ".

If she gets drunk.. has sex... and becomes pregnant... Well both
parties have to take 50% of the repsonibilty...

OK, then the man *has* to have 50% of the *authority*.

Else, you're violating " no taxation without representation ".

I understand.. and
it's unfortunate that she does in fact carry 100% of the decision as to
if she will carry the Child to term...

Then, let her carry THE SAME amount of responsibility: 100%.

However our Law Makers have made this Decision.

And, as with many other legal decisions, this can be revisited.

And we have elected
them into Office to make that Decsion.. and the Courts of the Country
have upheld it... Which before one of you start spouting off I'm a
Sexist.. blah Blah... whatever... To Date... as far as I can see the
Vast Majority of Members in the House and in the Courts are in fact
Men.

Frontman Fallacy.

And they through debates have decided that Women shall have this
right. Just as we men have the right to choose to have a Vasectomy..
they have the Right to choose to have an Abortion.

Neither point is at issue, simpleton: What IS at issue is why do women
get ALL the authority, while men get more than 50% of the *bills*.

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility*. "

And the People of Gov... Alot of Men...

Ibid Frontman Fallacy.

have decided that Child
Support laws are in fact needed to protect the needs of the child, and
take the cost off the Government.. And make people responsible for the
actions they make...

No, make MEN responsible for actions that WOMEN make...

Or, are you so insane as to claim that men birth babies ?

Again I have just have trouble understanding how if you knew full
well that a child may infact be created... and that you didn't take the
steps needed to ensure one wouldn't... why should you not be held
responsible for your actions...

Thats EXACTLY the argument against abortion, women's birth control...

Sauce for the goose...

That would be like commiting a crime.. and expecting the State not to
prosecute you because you didn't understand what you did was a Crime...
Again Ignorance, or Stupidity is not a Defence.

Unless you're a woman. Got it, you sexist pig.

Now as I have stated I do believe there needs to be reform in the way
of Child Support laws.. there needs to be 1 Universal System in
place... and then extreme cases can be argued against it... But if you
set 1 ruler which all cases are judged against then everyone becomes
the same...

See " C4M ".

And I do think in the States at least there needs to be reforms in
how Support is collected.. and that it needs to be tied directly to
Income. If you make a X amount... and you can prove it, then you are
only required to pay X amount of Money in Child Support.

No, first the guy needs to be given an EQUAL right to say " yes or no ".

Like I have said.. here in Canada for insatance a Garnishment of
Wages can be obtained.. but they are only allowed to Garnish a Max of
30% of your Take Home Income.. To ensure that people have enough to
live on.

I've seen cases here in Canada where men were ordered to pay over 100%
of their *gross* incomes.

As you were already shown to be full of **** about your claim about
CS being tax deductable to the payor, this is more cow**** from you.

So if you make 1000 a month say... A random number.. the most you
could ever expect to pay is 300 in Child support... However if you only
make that much an order that high in support Payments would never be
issued.. just being used as an example...

No proof offered ? Claim from cow****ter fails.

Andre

--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.