Help! Toddler left in car question

"Irene" wrote in message
oups.com...

Stephanie Stowe wrote:
SNIP

Actually, the gas station is one place I never leave kids in the
car
(thank goodness for pay at the pump!) I've heard too many stories
of
car-jackings, and gas stations seem to be the most popular
locations.
And if I do leave kids in the car, I never leave the car running -
that
really makes me paranoid, both from a car-jacking point, and from
a
"what if the kid gets out of the carseat" point.

I've never heard of carjackings at gas stations, but at places
like
stoplights. In the latter situation, the keys are in a running
car,
making it possible. If you go pay for gas, you probably take your
keys with you. I do, at least. Anyway, I don't see how paying at
the pump would prevent a carjacking.



P. Tierney




Steph, the wacky Mom... I used to have a keyless entry doo dad for
the car.
I would pull it off the ring, leave the car running (for heat or AC
depending) and lock the car with the keyless doo dad while pumping
gas. And
I live in Fairfax VT. I do not do this in Fairfax, but I have done it
in The
Big Town of Burlington!

I'm not sure how old your kids are, but now that ds is big enough to
get out of his carseat on his own, there is *no way* I will leave him
in the car with it running longer than, say, to put the books in the
library drop. (It's a funky driveway - theoretically possible to do
without getting out, but not terribly easy to maneuver close enough so
I don't bother). Ds *knows* he's not to get out of the carseat when
the car is on, but if it's stopped and I'm out of my seat, he'll try to
push that limit.

Irene


I have one who is too young, and one who is old enough but beleives Mamma's
"safety first" mantra too much. But what I just described is what I do while
I am pumping gas... at a pay at the pump gas station. Thus the whacky
descriptor.

Stephanie Stowe wrote:
"Irene" wrote in message
oups.com...

Stephanie Stowe wrote:
SNIP

Actually, the gas station is one place I never leave kids in
the
car
(thank goodness for pay at the pump!) I've heard too many
stories
of
car-jackings, and gas stations seem to be the most popular
locations.
And if I do leave kids in the car, I never leave the car
running -
that
really makes me paranoid, both from a car-jacking point, and
from
a
"what if the kid gets out of the carseat" point.

I've never heard of carjackings at gas stations, but at
places
like
stoplights. In the latter situation, the keys are in a running
car,
making it possible. If you go pay for gas, you probably take
your
keys with you. I do, at least. Anyway, I don't see how paying
at
the pump would prevent a carjacking.



P. Tierney




Steph, the wacky Mom... I used to have a keyless entry doo dad for
the car.
I would pull it off the ring, leave the car running (for heat or
AC
depending) and lock the car with the keyless doo dad while pumping
gas. And
I live in Fairfax VT. I do not do this in Fairfax, but I have done
it
in The
Big Town of Burlington!

I'm not sure how old your kids are, but now that ds is big enough
to
get out of his carseat on his own, there is *no way* I will leave
him
in the car with it running longer than, say, to put the books in
the
library drop. (It's a funky driveway - theoretically possible to
do
without getting out, but not terribly easy to maneuver close enough
so
I don't bother). Ds *knows* he's not to get out of the carseat
when
the car is on, but if it's stopped and I'm out of my seat, he'll
try to
push that limit.

Irene


I have one who is too young, and one who is old enough but beleives
Mamma's
"safety first" mantra too much. But what I just described is what I
do while
I am pumping gas... at a pay at the pump gas station. Thus the whacky

descriptor.

I understand - I'm just paranoid that ds will get out of his seat and
start monkeying with the emergency brake, the gearshift, etc, while my
back is turned. I'm especially paranoid after Leslie's story about how
her son managed to put the car in reverse and ran over her leg (this
happened maybe a year ago? I'd have to google the exact story, but
iirc, she had a ritual where she let her son start the car with her,
and one morning he reached over to the gearshift...) You never know
what kids will do, and that one just makes me paranoid, since ds is
just too quick sometimes...

Irene

P. Tierney wrote:
"Nan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:22:44 GMT, "P. Tierney"
scribbled:

Then how can you take them out of the house at all? Or even
in the house? As people are saying, *anything* can happen.

eyeroll Someone always has to trot out this stupid argument.

But we all, individually, use our reason to determine what is
best individual situations instead of creating blanket rules. Put
a
blanket rule up to scrutiny, and one might find a lot of holes in
it.

Last time I checked, nobody has put a blanket rule out. You choose
to
leave your kid in your car for a "one minute rule" according to
your
comfort level. I choose to never leave mine in the car period.

A blanket rule for the individual family, I meant to say. But
some have seemed to imply that no one should ever do it.
Or maybe it was stated, I'd have to go back and check.


It was just me who's too paranoid to leave them but never said anything
about those who do. Then a little joke but so banal as to not be very
funny I realize.


And the "one minute" thing isn't mine, but someone else's.
I realized, however, that it's also my rough limit, depending
on the circumstances -- give or take.

Nikki wrote:
wrote:

Twenty minutes is way too long. Even if the temperature is fine,
there are no conceivable carjackers, and the car has been left so
it
is safe as houses, a small child waking up alone in a car would
probably be confused and scared.

bad parent alert

I don't think you're a bad parent, Nikki!

(just had to chime in with that)

Melania
Mom to Joffre (Jan 11, 2003)
and #2 (edd May 21, 2005)

I'm very conscious of the weather so if it is warm I don't leave mine
in the
car at all. If it is to cold I don't either.

When we lived in the country I'd leave mine napping in the car for an
hour
or more. In town I've left Luke napping in the car for up to 30
minutes.
This Saturday we got back from an outing very late and Luke stayed
sleeping
in the car while I took Hunter in and put him in bed. That probably
took
15-20 minutes. Honestly, I'd probably leave him in there longer if
he was
sleeping but I'm afraid the neighbors would call the law. My drive
way goes
up and behind the house. Neither have shown the least bit of anxiety
if
they wake up in the car.

I never leave them in the car for anything else except when I take
the carts
to the cart corral after getting groceries. It is against the law
and
people call it in all the time.

I'm sure if the OP called the appropriate police station they would
tell her
what the law is and she could tell her friend that on a 'I want to
let you
know this as a favor' level rather then you 'you are an irresponsible

parent' level - which probably won't get her very far.

--
Nikki

"Irene" wrote in message
oups.com...

P. Tierney wrote:
"Irene" wrote in message
oups.com...

Actually, the gas station is one place I never leave kids in the
car
(thank goodness for pay at the pump!) I've heard too many stories
of
car-jackings, and gas stations seem to be the most popular
locations.
And if I do leave kids in the car, I never leave the car running -
that
really makes me paranoid, both from a car-jacking point, and from a
"what if the kid gets out of the carseat" point.

I've never heard of carjackings at gas stations, but at places
like
stoplights. In the latter situation, the keys are in a running car,
making it possible. If you go pay for gas, you probably take your
keys with you. I do, at least. Anyway, I don't see how paying at
the pump would prevent a carjacking.


Maybe I just hear different news stories than you do? I think a lot of
people actually leave the car running when they get gas (even though
you aren't supposed to).

Right, which is why I was surprised that people did it for the
"safety" of their kids. ;-) That said, I don't know the reason behind
that rule, but I always assumed it was something chemical.

Besides, you don't need keys to steal a car.

Right, "carjacking" is "the theft of an auto by force or intimidation".
Meaning that the keys are taken in the process, and the driver is often
still in the car. Carjacking is the act that I was responding to.

It's true that a car can be stolen by other methods. I feel confident
that
pay for the gas, see the car most of the time, and do so under the amount
of time that it takes for someone to break into the car, hotwire it, and
drive off.

;-) I know that paying at the pump doesn't completely protect me from
carjacking, but at least it makes me feel better - especially since
it's less likely that someone could sneak into the car while I'm not
looking, and attack me when I get back in.

Perhaps I understand it differently, but my impression of "carjacking"
is an act of force, so that it seems that it might be *more* likely to
happen
to one who pays at the pump, since that person is there, has the keys,
and even has a good credit card available. Just stealing a car by
"traditional" means, that would be more likely to someone who pays
inside, I would think.

As for me, I pay inside because I try to avoid credit and debit cards
whenever possible. That's my only reason -- keeping it in cash.


P.
Tierney

"Stephanie Stowe" wrote in message
...
SNIP
Steph, the wacky Mom... I used to have a keyless entry doo dad for the
car. I would pull it off the ring, leave the car running (for heat or AC
depending) and lock the car with the keyless doo dad while pumping gas.
And I live in Fairfax VT. I do not do this in Fairfax, but I have done it
in The Big Town of Burlington!

You didn't really leave the car running while you pumped gas did you? There
are signs saying to turn your engine off at every station I've ever been to.
I always assumed it was a safety thing.

Bizby

In article ,
"bizby40" wrote:

"Stephanie Stowe" wrote in message
...
SNIP
Steph, the wacky Mom... I used to have a keyless entry doo dad for the
car. I would pull it off the ring, leave the car running (for heat or AC
depending) and lock the car with the keyless doo dad while pumping gas.
And I live in Fairfax VT. I do not do this in Fairfax, but I have done it
in The Big Town of Burlington!

You didn't really leave the car running while you pumped gas did you? There
are signs saying to turn your engine off at every station I've ever been to.
I always assumed it was a safety thing.

Bizby



It is. And if the weather is REALLY cold (like well below 0 F) I leave
it running anyway, especially if the kids are in the car.

Fortunately, I don't live where it gets that cold any more!
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In ,
bizby40 wrote:

*I was once on the opposite end of a similar situation. DD is 9. I
*mentioned to a friend that I thought when she was 10, she'd be old enough to
*stay home alone if I ran to the local grocery store or post office (these
*are both less than 5 minutes away, and as it's not where I do my main
*grocery shopping, a trip to either place is normally less than 20 minutes
*round trip). She told me that if I were to do that, I need to tell DD not
*to tell anyone, as it is illegal and CPS could get involved if anyone ever
*found out.

That's interesting.

I actually called my local police department to find out when it would be
legal to leave my kid home alone (I was spurred into this by a neighbor
who told me she left her kid, who is my kid's age, home alone for five
minutes one day while she ran a quick errand. She also mentioned she had
another neighbor "on alert" that if she did NOT get a call in ten minutes
saying she was home and all was ok, she should go check on the kid). I was
told that it was legal for any "school age" child to be left alone, and
the officer I spoke to interpreted "school age" as five years old (mine
was 4 at the time of this phone call). The officer went on to say that he
did not condone leaving 5 yr olds alone, and I frankly agreed with him,
but it is apparently legal in the great state of Pennsylvania.

*so to do something *so* bad that there was a law against it... So I
*immediately began researching state law, and after an exhaustive search
*discovered that there is no stated minimum age for a child to be left alone.

Oh. Duh. I should have read further

-h.

--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx

bizby40 wrote:

You didn't really leave the car running while you pumped gas did you? There
are signs saying to turn your engine off at every station I've ever been to.
I always assumed it was a safety thing.

It is:

http://www.pei.org/faq/index.asp?cate=4

Q: Engine Running
Why is it dangerous to leave your car running?

A: Many people believe this safety warning only applies to older cars.
That is not true. A running car presents a number of "ignition sources"
for fuel vapor. The exhaust components of a modern car can literally
glow red hot during normal operation. The typical ignition system
creates voltages above 40,000 volts.

But turning off your engine while refueling isn't just to prevent your
car from starting a fire. There is also a safety issue in the event of
fire, regardless of the source. In case a fire does occur in a gas
station a running car is a danger. Imagine that fire burns through one
of the rubber fuel hoses under your running car. Most fuel pumps deliver
gasoline at about 15 to 40 pounds per square inch (PSI). Your fuel pump
is now spraying a tremendous amount of gasoline at an open flame.

http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/030409/11/sqaa.html

"Most safety procedures are common sense. For example, when filling a
vehicle at the gas pumps don't have the engine running. This is law in
Canada and for good reason. Hot exhaust system parts, sparks from faulty
sparkplug wires, or static electricity from engine drive belts could
ignite gasoline vapours. Liquid gasoline isn't explosive but the vapours
are, and rich fuel vapours exit the tank as it is being filled. "

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:13:41 +0000 (UTC), (Hillary
Israeli) scribbled:



I actually called my local police department to find out when it would be
legal to leave my kid home alone (I was spurred into this by a neighbor
who told me she left her kid, who is my kid's age, home alone for five
minutes one day while she ran a quick errand. She also mentioned she had
another neighbor "on alert" that if she did NOT get a call in ten minutes
saying she was home and all was ok, she should go check on the kid). I was
told that it was legal for any "school age" child to be left alone, and
the officer I spoke to interpreted "school age" as five years old (mine
was 4 at the time of this phone call). The officer went on to say that he
did not condone leaving 5 yr olds alone, and I frankly agreed with him,
but it is apparently legal in the great state of Pennsylvania.

I also called the PD to inquire about this issue when my ds was young.
There was no stated minimum age, so the parents wouldn't get arrested
or have criminal charges against them.
However, our local Family and Children Services Dept stated they get
involved in situations when children under 11 are left alone.

Nan