Help! Toddler left in car question

Hillary Israeli wrote:
In ,
bizby40 wrote:

*I was once on the opposite end of a similar situation. DD is 9. I
*mentioned to a friend that I thought when she was 10, she'd be old
enough to
*stay home alone if I ran to the local grocery store or post office
(these
*are both less than 5 minutes away, and as it's not where I do my
main
*grocery shopping, a trip to either place is normally less than 20
minutes
*round trip). She told me that if I were to do that, I need to tell
DD not
*to tell anyone, as it is illegal and CPS could get involved if
anyone ever
*found out.

That's interesting.

I actually called my local police department to find out when it
would be
legal to leave my kid home alone (I was spurred into this by a
neighbor
who told me she left her kid, who is my kid's age, home alone for
five
minutes one day while she ran a quick errand. She also mentioned she
had
another neighbor "on alert" that if she did NOT get a call in ten
minutes
saying she was home and all was ok, she should go check on the kid).
I was
told that it was legal for any "school age" child to be left alone,
and
the officer I spoke to interpreted "school age" as five years old
(mine
was 4 at the time of this phone call). The officer went on to say
that he
did not condone leaving 5 yr olds alone, and I frankly agreed with
him,
but it is apparently legal in the great state of Pennsylvania.

*so to do something *so* bad that there was a law against it... So I

*immediately began researching state law, and after an exhaustive
search
*discovered that there is no stated minimum age for a child to be
left alone.

Oh. Duh. I should have read further

I got curious about this and looked into it for North Carolina once,
and found that there is no hard-and-fast law about it here either. The
'guideline' appears to be that eight years old is the minimum for being
left alone occasionally, and around 12 is the minimum for being left
alone routinely (i.e. every day after school). It's not an absolute
law, though, which works both ways. It's not strictly illegal to leave
a five-year-old alone for a few minutes, but it's also not clearly 100%
legal to leave a twelve-year-old alone for a few minutes. Whether a
given situation was considered an issue might be up to the discretion
of whomever was investigating it.

Beth

Stephanie Stowe wrote:

Steph, the wacky Mom... I used to have a keyless entry doo dad for
the car. I would pull it off the ring, leave the car running (for
heat or AC depending) and lock the car with the keyless doo dad while
pumping gas. And I live in Fairfax VT. I do not do this in Fairfax,
but I have done it in The Big Town of Burlington!

You probably have a bigger risk of catching your car on fire because is
still running then having your kid stolen out of it while you pay at the
pump ;-)

But - carry on with your wackiness, lol. We all have something we are wacky
over.


--
Nikki

wrote:

My son
would be okay with waking up in the car and my not being there for a
minute or two, but if he woke up right after I went inside and then
was in the car alone for twenty minutes, it's highly likely he'd be
hysterical when I got back.

Oh, I do check on them so they wouldn't be left out there that long if they
were awake :-)

--
Nikki

"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...
In ,
bizby40 wrote:

*I was once on the opposite end of a similar situation. DD is 9. I
*mentioned to a friend that I thought when she was 10, she'd be old enough
to
*stay home alone if I ran to the local grocery store or post office (these
*are both less than 5 minutes away, and as it's not where I do my main
*grocery shopping, a trip to either place is normally less than 20 minutes
*round trip). She told me that if I were to do that, I need to tell DD
not
*to tell anyone, as it is illegal and CPS could get involved if anyone
ever
*found out.

That's interesting.

I actually called my local police department to find out when it would be
legal to leave my kid home alone (I was spurred into this by a neighbor
who told me she left her kid, who is my kid's age, home alone for five
minutes one day while she ran a quick errand. She also mentioned she had
another neighbor "on alert" that if she did NOT get a call in ten minutes
saying she was home and all was ok, she should go check on the kid). I was
told that it was legal for any "school age" child to be left alone, and
the officer I spoke to interpreted "school age" as five years old (mine
was 4 at the time of this phone call). The officer went on to say that he
did not condone leaving 5 yr olds alone, and I frankly agreed with him,
but it is apparently legal in the great state of Pennsylvania.

Virginia law has wording to the effect that you can't leave a child in a
situation that child isn't ready for. Confusing for the mom who really
wants to know what to do.

*so to do something *so* bad that there was a law against it... So I
*immediately began researching state law, and after an exhaustive search
*discovered that there is no stated minimum age for a child to be left
alone.

Oh. Duh. I should have read further

-h.

--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

A: Many people believe this safety warning only applies to older cars.
That is not true. A running car presents a number of "ignition
sources" for fuel vapor. The exhaust components of a modern car can
literally glow red hot during normal operation. The typical ignition
system creates voltages above 40,000 volts.

While I've never known anyone to have a car stolen from a gas pump, much
less a child, I have known one person whose car caught fire. She had their
18mo strapped in and, thank god, was able to get her out. Her other two
kids were inside. I *always* turn my car off now and I don't get in and out
of it anymore either because you can spark that way. That can be my wacky,
over protective, worry wart, item ;-)

I used to work at a gas station and some one pulled off the road - their car
was on fire.....where did they pull up at? Right up along side a gas pump.
I image they were panicking and on auto pilot. You generally pull up to a
pump when entering a gas station but jeez - idiot move or what!

--
Nikki

P. Tierney wrote:
Maybe I just hear different news stories than you do? I think a
lot of
people actually leave the car running when they get gas (even
though
you aren't supposed to).

Right, which is why I was surprised that people did it for the
"safety" of their kids. ;-) That said, I don't know the reason
behind
that rule, but I always assumed it was something chemical.

See Ericka's post - tho I assume the people who do it for safety
reasons are thinking of heat or cold issues.

Besides, you don't need keys to steal a car.

Right, "carjacking" is "the theft of an auto by force or
intimidation".
Meaning that the keys are taken in the process, and the driver is
often
still in the car. Carjacking is the act that I was responding to.

Oops - I guess I'm using the wrong term for the actions I'm being
paranoid about!


It's true that a car can be stolen by other methods. I feel
confident
that
pay for the gas, see the car most of the time, and do so under the
amount
of time that it takes for someone to break into the car, hotwire it,
and
drive off.

Yeah - that's what I meant...

As for me, I pay inside because I try to avoid credit and debit
cards
whenever possible. That's my only reason -- keeping it in cash.

Pay at the pump is one of the few things I almost always do on credit
cards - I prefer cash & checks when I can, too, so I understand that
reasoning. ;-)

Irene

On 1 Mar 2005 07:44:15 -0800, "Irene" wrote:

I've never heard of carjackings at gas stations, but at places
like stoplights. In the latter situation, the keys are in a running
car, making it possible. If you go pay for gas, you probably take
your keys with you. I do, at least. Anyway, I don't see how paying
at the pump would prevent a carjacking.


Maybe I just hear different news stories than you do? I think a lot of
people actually leave the car running when they get gas (even though
you aren't supposed to). Besides, you don't need keys to steal a car.
;-) I know that paying at the pump doesn't completely protect me from
carjacking, but at least it makes me feel better - especially since
it's less likely that someone could sneak into the car while I'm not
looking, and attack me when I get back in. We all have our areas of
paranoia - that's one of mine. ;-)

Carjackings seem to be fairly uncommon crimes, but as these
articles show, they do occur at gas pumps as well as at other
places. Of course, some of the thefts occur because the person
leaves the car running or the keys in the car which the parents
here would not do anyway.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2005Feb9.html

Patrols Bolstered Near Gas Stations After Carjackings
Attacks, Thefts Reported in Northeast

By Clarence Williams
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 10, 2005; Page DZ03

D.C. police have stepped up patrols around Northeast gas
stations after a rash of carjackings and vehicle thefts,
officials said.

About 20 carjackings have been reported in recent months
in the 6th Police District, officials said. Some victims were
accosted after paying gas station cashiers. In other cases,
thieves got behind the wheel and rode off after drivers
stepped away from gas pumps, leaving their keys in
unlocked cars.

http://www.thegreenvillenews.com/new...2052023632.htm

Greenville sheriff's Investigator Tony Lee said his department's
statistics are similar to those in the city. He said his department
hasn't had more than 11 carjackings in a single year since 1999.

He said Greenville County experienced a small wave of
carjackings several years ago when they were being reported
around the country at fast-food restaurants, gas pumps and
convenience stores.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

dragonlady wrote:
In article ,
"nimue" wrote:

I know it is a pretty safe place. Things will always happen
to people somewhere, here included. But a bit of perspective
is always a good idea.



P. Tierney

So you would leave your 2 year old alone in the car, out of your
sight, for 15-20 minutes?

It depends. Where is this, and why might I do it?

The circumstances under which I HAVE done it:


This was in front of my friend's rental property. We went into the house
and checked it and went to the back and checked the shed. The toddler was
completely out of our sight and indeed out of our hearing. The neighborhood
is o.k. -- a student neighborhood near a main road. It's not a horrible
neighborhood nor a really good one. The windows were down in the car for
ventilation.
To run into a pharmacy to fill a perscription for said child;
actually, that doesn't quite count -- I chose a pharmacy with a large
window facing the parking lot, so I could see the car and the child.

At home, in my driveway, with the doors left open, and a window in the
house open so I could hear of she started to cry. Child was sleeping,
weather was cooperative (warm, but cloudy).

Hmmm -- I think that covers it. In a public place while I go
shopping? -- no.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French

dragonlady wrote:
In article ,
"nimue" wrote:

Okay. I just wanted to make that clear. I just spoke to my friend
and she EXPLODED all over me and didn't want to hear it. It was
very unpleasant. I was surprised she called me today -- I wasn't
expecting to hear from her until tomorrow at the earliest. Anyway,
she sees NOTHING wrong with what she did and she got VERY angry.
FURIOUS. I tried very hard to be mild and caring, but no matter
what I said, she just reacted and got angrier and angrier. It was
very unpleasant and I am feeling kind of down about it now.

When my kids get this angry at me when I call them on something, I
know it's because they KNOW they were in the wrong, and are angry at
having been caught . . .

Thank you, dragonlady. That makes me feel better, because she just left a
SCREAMING FURIOUS message on my answering machine. Oh, boy.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 22:15:25 GMT, "nimue"
scribbled:

dragonlady wrote:
In article ,
"nimue" wrote:

Okay. I just wanted to make that clear. I just spoke to my friend
and she EXPLODED all over me and didn't want to hear it. It was
very unpleasant. I was surprised she called me today -- I wasn't
expecting to hear from her until tomorrow at the earliest. Anyway,
she sees NOTHING wrong with what she did and she got VERY angry.
FURIOUS. I tried very hard to be mild and caring, but no matter
what I said, she just reacted and got angrier and angrier. It was
very unpleasant and I am feeling kind of down about it now.

When my kids get this angry at me when I call them on something, I
know it's because they KNOW they were in the wrong, and are angry at
having been caught . . .

Thank you, dragonlady. That makes me feel better, because she just left a
SCREAMING FURIOUS message on my answering machine. Oh, boy.

She's still acting angry?? I'd say you struck a nerve.

Nan