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Things to think of before you get married again..



 
 
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  #151  
Old October 10th 06, 03:51 PM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Ken Chaddock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Things to think of before you get married again..

Fred wrote:

Ken Chaddock wrote:

Fred wrote:

Gini wrote:

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities!
I am a woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what
MEN should do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their
responibilities in the same situation. Everything a woman does
after the sex act is a consequence of where that mean old man left
his semen. Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why
don't you clearly delineate what the woman's responsibilities are
after the consequence of pregnancy becomes an issue.


==
A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.)


I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme
of the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence."



It's too bad that you seem to grasp the obvious fact that all post
conception choices are the woman's and therefore, in accordance with
the precepts of "Natural/Fundamental" Justice, all the consequences
that follow from those choices should also be hers.



I am aware of what Canada's notion of "natural justice". I know that it
allows Canada to declare age discrimination to be legal even though it
is unconstitutional; see McKinney v. University of Guelph. So if you
expect me to buy any argument based on that concept, you are swimming
upstream.

I read your entire message. What it boils down to is yet another attempt
to evade your responsibilities by ignoring the doctrine of informed
consent. Sorry, but men can't just spread their semen hither and yon and
walk away from the consequences thereof because those consequences are
... *inconvenient*. That's "inconvenient" as in financially
inconvenient, because at the end of the day it's always about the money
with y'all.


Yes, it's easier to cut the article and make some unrelated,
self-serving comments when you can't rebut the points made...sometimes I
to wish I could do that to but I guess I just have too much integrity to
do so...

....Ken
  #152  
Old October 10th 06, 03:53 PM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 387
Default Things to think of before you get married again..


"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Ken Chaddock" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Fred wrote:
Gini wrote:

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities!
I am a woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on
what MEN should do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle
their responibilities in the same situation. Everything a woman
does after the sex act is a consequence of where that mean old
man left his semen. Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just reading you
wrong--why don't you clearly delineate what the woman's
responsibilities are after the consequence of pregnancy becomes
an issue.

==
A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.)


I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme
of the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence."

It's too bad that you seem to grasp the obvious fact that all post
conception choices are the woman's and therefore, in accordance with
the precepts of "Natural/Fundamental" Justice, all the consequences
that follow from those choices should also be hers.


So he chooses to spread his semen hither and yon, and she chooses
to let him spread it in her. And let's say that the consequence is
pregnancy.

But that's as far as the "consequence" of his "spreading his sperm
around" go. After that the woman has many options and CHOICES...even
if she decides (note the word "decides") not to abort the fetus,
that to, is a CHOICE, the consequence of which will most likely be
the birth of a child...


And if the child is born, how does that absolve the man from any
responsibility for or to the child?
Isn't it still 50% genetically his child, and legally his child as
well?


Now there are other choices to be made, in this case by her, and
from those choices will spring consequences in turn.

Yes, as I noted above, but ALL post conception choices are HER
choices, to hold him responsible for the consequences that follow
from HER choices is fundamentally unfair, unjust and, on top of all
that, most likely unconstitutional...


So because she has choices that pertain strictly to undergoing (or
not undergoing) a medical and surgical procedure, you think this
absolves the man from any responsibility, even though it's still his
child?


When the father legally has 50% of the rights to match his
responsibilities, the we can come back to his responsibilities toward
the child. Until he becomes an actual parent in the life of the child
he helped create--50/50 with the mother, he also should not be the
bankroll.


Correct. Rights match responsibilities. He shares only the
responsibility that correspond to the rights he has; conversely, she has
rights that match her responsibility. So the question is: who has what
rights?
Just because a man accompanies you to a dealership does not mean he owes
you a car.
Phil #3


  #153  
Old October 10th 06, 03:56 PM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 387
Default Things to think of before you get married again..


"GL Fowler" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:01:35 GMT, "Phil" wrote:


"Fred" wrote in message
e.net...

Absolutely nothing of value.
Phil #3

So why are you playing his game?

A jury is 12 individuals who decides who has the best lawyer.
- Mark Twain


(S)he's entertaining
Besides, with his/her vast ignorance, (s)he's showing feminism's true
face without even knowing it. (S)he's so ignorant, that even by reading
this, still won't know what I said.
Phil #3


  #154  
Old October 10th 06, 04:48 PM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Andre Lieven
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 80
Default Things to think of before you get married again..

Fred ) just doesn't get it::
Andre Lieven wrote:
"Tracy" ) writes:
"Gini" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
wrote
.............................
Deary, a vasectomy is cheaper than a month of child support. If you
don't want to breed, don't have sex with a fertile woman,
==
And how is he to know when she is fertile?
Isn't a vasectomy only cheaper than a month of child support if child
support is more than a vasecotmy? How much is a vasectomy?


How much is a tubal ligation ?


Here's something interesting:

"The cost of vasectomy is typically 3 to 4 times less than the cost of
tubal ligation. Although prices vary, regionally, vasectomy costs
generally range from about two hundrend fifty to one thousand dollars,
while the cost of tubal ligation often begin at about one thousand
dollars and may go as high as twenty-five hundred dollars. The cost
difference is mainly due to the fact of where each procedure is
performed; an office procedure vs. a hospital procedure."

http://womenshealth.about.com/cs/ste...zhisorhe_3.htm

But it's not really about cost, is it?


No.

It's about taking responsibility.


ONLY for men. Note that women-ONLY are allowed several NON medical and
NON biological LEGAL means to *post-coitally* and post natally, to
totally void ALL of their parental responsibilities, even as they get
100% of the post-coital choices, too.

Thats... sexist.

And let's face it, he's responsible for where his semen ends up,


Why isn't *she responsible* for what *she alone* does with her EGG ?

Double Standard

and in
this day and age, I don't think it's reasonable for him to say that he
didn't know *all* of the potential consequences of his actions.


Its not reasonable to say that SHE didn't know ALL of the potential
consequences of HER actions.

Note that,a s SHE gets 100% of the post-coital choices, that it
logically follows that she *also gets* 100% of the *post-coital*
responsibilities.

So here's a question:

How much is a condom?


How much is a Pill ? An IUD ? A diaphram ? A Legal Abandon drop off ?

Etc.

Andre

  #155  
Old October 10th 06, 04:53 PM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Andre Lieven
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 80
Default Things to think of before you get married again..

"Gini" ) writes:
"Ken Chaddock" wrote
............................
Tracy, what you are describing is the only means of birth control
officially sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church...it's called the
Rhythm Method

==
We all know that! The subject came up several weeks ago when Hy insisted
that the man is 100% responsible for the sperm even after it
fertilizes the egg. I have repeatedly reminded her that a woman can
only get pg when she is fertile and only the woman can know when that
is and it is HER responsibility to not have sex when she is fertile.
Hence, men don't "get" women pregnant--women ALLOW themselves to get
pregnant. The counting thing is a spoof on Hy's/feminists' contention
that women are so weak and dependent that they need the state to
protect them and men to support them. I disagree with that. I think
women are entirely capable of surviving without such props and society
should stop trying to convince them that they are entitled to
such bolstering simply because they are the "weaker sex." That is what
feminism has done to our gender and I, as a woman, despise it.


Hear, hear. You are entirely correct, and if we are to simply treat
women, legally, as being " persons " as men are, then we MUST say
that responsibility follows *authority*. Even with women.

And, as sole authority over a pregnancy is hers, so MUST be the
responsibility. Thats why I coined:

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility*. "

Andre


  #156  
Old October 10th 06, 05:07 PM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Andre Lieven
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 80
Default Things to think of before you get married again..

"Tracy" ) MSes the point:
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Fred" wrote in message
. net...

That she has such a moral responsibility does not serve to negate any
responsibility that he has.

What I'm asking you to do is to accept the responsibilities that *you*
have, and you respond by resisting that with every fiber of your being.

To say men are responsible for women's bad choices in sperm is to transfer
the biological misjudgments made by women to men.


I'm jumping in here for a second because I have not seen a single sentence
Fred has written that suggests he is saying men are responsible for women's
bad choices.


Yet, Fred the Feminist Apologist has not written a word to suggest that
WOMEN should be responsible for WOMEN-ONLY choices and authorities.

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility*. "

All he has said is that men should take responsibility for
where he puts his own penis. His ejaculation is due to him placing his
penis inside of the woman and engaging in the sexual act with her.


This would matter IF abortion, and ALL OTHER POST COITAL WOMEN-ONLY
choices were outlawed.

Since that is NOT the case now, this point is specious and misandristic.

Pregnancy is a possible outcome of the act, which in most cases the act
itself is mutually agreed on. So I'm not sure why anyone is reading more
into someone stating that a man should take responsibility for his choice
- where to put his penis.


Because babies don't pop out of penises. Duh !

Andre

  #157  
Old October 10th 06, 05:12 PM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Andre Lieven
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 80
Default Things to think of before you get married again..

GL Fowler ) writes:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:01:35 GMT, "Phil" wrote:

"Fred" wrote in message
e.net...

Absolutely nothing of value.
Phil #3

So why are you playing his game?


Because the best answer to bad/idiotic speech is good/informed
speech.

Andre

  #158  
Old October 10th 06, 05:15 PM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Andre Lieven
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 80
Default Things to think of before you get married again..

Ken Chaddock ) writes:
Fred wrote:

Ken Chaddock wrote:

Fred wrote:

Gini wrote:

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities!
I am a woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what
MEN should do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their
responibilities in the same situation. Everything a woman does
after the sex act is a consequence of where that mean old man left
his semen. Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why
don't you clearly delineate what the woman's responsibilities are
after the consequence of pregnancy becomes an issue.

==
A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.)

I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme
of the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence."

It's too bad that you seem to grasp the obvious fact that all post
conception choices are the woman's and therefore, in accordance with
the precepts of "Natural/Fundamental" Justice, all the consequences
that follow from those choices should also be hers.


I am aware of what Canada's notion of "natural justice". I know that it
allows Canada to declare age discrimination to be legal even though it
is unconstitutional; see McKinney v. University of Guelph. So if you
expect me to buy any argument based on that concept, you are swimming
upstream.

I read your entire message. What it boils down to is yet another attempt
to evade your responsibilities by ignoring the doctrine of informed
consent. Sorry, but men can't just spread their semen hither and yon and
walk away from the consequences thereof because those consequences are
... *inconvenient*. That's "inconvenient" as in financially
inconvenient, because at the end of the day it's always about the money
with y'all.


Yes, it's easier to cut the article and make some unrelated,
self-serving comments when you can't rebut the points made...sometimes I
to wish I could do that to but I guess I just have too much integrity to
do so...


Ken, between the cite cutting/evading, and the phrase " spread their
semen ", I say that " Fred " is Parg.

Andre

  #159  
Old October 10th 06, 05:16 PM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Gini
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default Things to think of before you get married again..


"Fred" wrote
..........................

I read your entire message. What it boils down to is yet another attempt
to evade your responsibilities by ignoring the doctrine of informed
consent. Sorry, but men can't just spread their semen hither and yon and
walk away from the consequences thereof because those consequences are ...
*inconvenient*. That's "inconvenient" as in financially inconvenient,
because at the end of the day it's always about the money with y'all.

It's disgusting, really.

==
Then I presume you find it equally disgusting when the mother does the same,
such as abortion, baby dropoff?


  #160  
Old October 10th 06, 05:19 PM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Gini
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default Things to think of before you get married again..


wrote
Fred -

You are Fred aren't you, and not Cindy, Sharon, Luoise, or some other
feminist disguising yourself to make it look like you are chivalrous?

==
We frequently get the male feminists when they are the second husband and
resent the
bio dad's boat, car, food, etc. They all seem to think bio dad owes them a
higher standard of living.
Really, they do.


 




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