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Things to think of before you get married again..



 
 
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  #191  
Old October 11th 06, 03:14 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Gini
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Posts: 936
Default Things to think of before you get married again..


"Fred" wrote
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote

..................................
Last time I looked, we called that "adoption."

==
Then I suggest you look again.


I asked you what "baby dropoff" was.

Instead of responding with substance, you respond with a sleazy cheap
shot.

==
"Sleazy?" "Cheap shot?" You don't get out much, do you Fred?
==

If you are going to play cheap, sleazy games, I won't deal with you.

Now then, what's "baby dropoff"?

And don't refer me to Andre's screed. I want a substantive description
that differentiates between whatever y'all are talking about and adoption.

Now get to work or go away.

==
Do your own work. (You can't afford to hire me. )
See, I already know what it means so I don't have to look it up.


  #192  
Old October 11th 06, 03:16 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
teachrmama
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Posts: 1,905
Default Things to think of before you get married again..


"Tracy" wrote in message
...
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
All I'm asking is that both men and women take responsibility for their
choices. What's wrong with that?


There is nothing wrong with asking both men and women to take
responsibility for their choices, and I'll add actions. It is no
different then my s2bx trying to place blaim on me for his drinking
problem, and prior to me it was his first ex-wife's fault. There are
those who refuse to take responsibility for their actions/choices and then
there those who see they are responsible for their actions/choices.


I don't see anything wrong with his askling that both take
responsibility--I'd just like to know what he thinks the woman's
responsibilities are. Is that so bad?


  #193  
Old October 11th 06, 03:18 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
teachrmama
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Posts: 1,905
Default Things to think of before you get married again..


"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Tracy wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
All I'm asking is that both men and women take responsibility for their
choices. What's wrong with that?


There is nothing wrong with asking both men and women to take
responsibility for their choices, and I'll add actions. It is no
different then my s2bx trying to place blaim on me for his drinking
problem, and prior to me it was his first ex-wife's fault. There are
those who refuse to take responsibility for their actions/choices and
then there those who see they are responsible for their actions/choices.


Exactly.

These boys are the ultimate in sexist selfishness. If they can't control
the woman, they want nothing to do with her ... and their children. And,
of course, that means not having to support the children that they
actively, willingly, and with informed consent participated in
procreating.

"She's being irresponsible!", they bleat, claiming this as justification
for their own claims to irresponsible behavior. Well, even if/when she
*is* being irresponsible, that absolutely does not justify their being
irresponsible in turn. This is simply a copout.

And for the record, I refer to them as "boys" because in my opinion they
are not men.


I'm pretty sure they don't care what you think, little lady.


  #194  
Old October 11th 06, 03:28 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Fred
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Posts: 62
Default Things to think of before you get married again..

Andre Lieven wrote:

Gads, are you rude!


Maybe so ...


Fine.

You refuse to carry on civilized discourse, and I have no interest in
validating your hateful, sexist, inferiority complex.

Since you refuse to do so, perhaps someone else will describe the
differences, if any, between "baby dropoff" and adoption.

This discussion is over.
  #195  
Old October 11th 06, 03:38 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Bob Whiteside
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Posts: 981
Default Things to think of before you get married again..


"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
Gini wrote:
wrote
Fred -

You are Fred aren't you, and not Cindy, Sharon, Luoise, or some other
feminist disguising yourself to make it look like you are chivalrous?
==
We frequently get the male feminists when they are the second husband

and
resent the
bio dad's boat, car, food, etc. They all seem to think bio dad owes

them
a higher standard of living.
Really, they do.
Bio dad owes second husband nothing.

Bio dad owes his kids. He is, after all, bio dad.

==
So then you have no problem with the child support used exclusively for

said
child
and not be put into the family coffers for let's say, the mortgage, SUV
payment?


You may take what I said at face value. I will leave it to legislatures
and courts to figure out what constitutes an expense in the child's
interest.


Your ignorance is showing again. Neither the legislatures nor the courts
have used expense based criteria to fulfill a child's interest since the
mid-80's when CS guidelines were introduced.


  #196  
Old October 11th 06, 03:40 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Moon Shyne
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Posts: 427
Default Things to think of before you get married again..


"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Ken Chaddock" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Fred wrote:
Gini wrote:

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities!
I am a woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what
MEN should do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their
responibilities in the same situation. Everything a woman does
after the sex act is a consequence of where that mean old man left
his semen. Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why
don't you clearly delineate what the woman's responsibilities are
after the consequence of pregnancy becomes an issue.

==
A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.)


I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme
of the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence."

It's too bad that you seem to grasp the obvious fact that all post
conception choices are the woman's and therefore, in accordance with
the precepts of "Natural/Fundamental" Justice, all the consequences
that follow from those choices should also be hers.


So he chooses to spread his semen hither and yon, and she chooses to
let him spread it in her. And let's say that the consequence is
pregnancy.

But that's as far as the "consequence" of his "spreading his sperm
around" go. After that the woman has many options and CHOICES...even
if she decides (note the word "decides") not to abort the fetus, that
to, is a CHOICE, the consequence of which will most likely be the
birth of a child...

And if the child is born, how does that absolve the man from any
responsibility for or to the child?
Isn't it still 50% genetically his child, and legally his child as
well?


Now there are other choices to be made, in this case by her, and from
those choices will spring consequences in turn.

Yes, as I noted above, but ALL post conception choices are HER
choices, to hold him responsible for the consequences that follow from
HER choices is fundamentally unfair, unjust and, on top of all that,
most likely unconstitutional...

So because she has choices that pertain strictly to undergoing (or not
undergoing) a medical and surgical procedure, you think this absolves
the man from any responsibility, even though it's still his child?

When the father legally has 50% of the rights to match his
responsibilities, the we can come back to his responsibilities toward
the child. Until he becomes an actual parent in the life of the child
he helped create--50/50 with the mother, he also should not be the
bankroll.


So if one parent dumps all of the responsibility onto the other parent,
the parent shouldering the responsibility gets all the rights, and the
parent who dumped their responsibilities gets no rights?


Depends. Unmarried: default 50/50 with both mom and dad having the same
rights to walk away in the exact same time frame. But the default 50/50
is the key.

Married and divorcing: default 50/50. No rights to walk away. If Dad
wants only 20%, he pays mom to handle his other 30 percent. If mom wants
80/20 and can get dad to agree, she handles the other 30 % she chooses on
her own. Other than that, they pay for their own expenses.


"No rights to walk away".

How do you propose stopping someone from doing so?

"they pay for their own expenses"

So one parent doesn't cover the kids with health insurance, and the other
parent doesn't cover the kids with health insurance, either.
They both insist it's the other's expense.

So what happens, you just hang the kids out to dry and no one is required to
provide health insurance?
(or any other expense that both parents insist isn't their expense, it's the
*other* parent's expense)







  #198  
Old October 11th 06, 04:06 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Andre Lieven
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Posts: 80
Default Things to think of before you get married again..

Fred ) wrines, and further displays utter ignorance:
Andre Lieven wrote:

Gads, are you rude!


Maybe so ...


Fine.


Yes, I am. Because I know what I'm talking about.

You refuse to carry on civilized discourse,


laughs Yeah, I tend to get a bit testy with morons who know NOTHING.

Your solution is to know... something.

and I have no interest in
validating your hateful, sexist, inferiority complex.


Massive Ignorant Idiot Projection

Since you refuse to do so, perhaps someone else will describe the
differences, if any, between "baby dropoff" and adoption.


Many have. Looking up " Legal Abandon Laws " which are NOT adoption
would help you, but apparently, you cannot even help yourself.

This discussion is over.


laughs The White Flag Of Victory. How... pathetic.

Run to mama, little loon boi.

Andre
  #199  
Old October 11th 06, 04:10 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Fred
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Posts: 62
Default Things to think of before you get married again..

Ken Chaddock wrote:
Fred wrote:
Gini wrote:

"Fred" wrote
.........................

I read your entire message. What it boils down to is yet another
attempt to evade your responsibilities by ignoring the doctrine of
informed consent. Sorry, but men can't just spread their semen
hither and yon and walk away from the consequences thereof because
those consequences are ... *inconvenient*. That's "inconvenient" as
in financially inconvenient, because at the end of the day it's
always about the money with y'all.

It's disgusting, really.

==
Then I presume you find it equally disgusting when the mother does
the same,
such as abortion, baby dropoff?


What's "baby dropoff"?


[sanctimony deleted]

...child-drop-off is consequence free,
legal abandonment of an infant child by a mother, sometimes also called
"safe haven" laws or "hatchery" laws. Currently at least 37 states have
"safe haven" laws with more in progress.
All the mother has to do is take the child to a "safe" drop off
point...she can't just throw it in a dumpster, which is what some used
to do...such as a police station, fire station, welfare office, hospital
or medical clinic etc. There are *NO* strings attached, in most case
they aren't even allowed to ask her her name so there are absolutely NO
legal consequences...note that in all but two states this provision is
NOT available to the father and those two they *require* that he provide
identification...for future child support no doubt...
If you don't believe me... [sanctimony deleted] ... there's plenty of
info on the net. up to and including state statutes that you can read
yourself...


Thanks. I cut the sanctimony because it served no useful purpose.

The one law I read, from Indiana, said "parent", not "mother." Maybe
that's an exception. It also made a reference to someone other than a
parent dropping off the child, which I found more than a little
disturbing. Still, given the choice between the child being dropped off
at a firehouse and being dropped in a dumpster, I'll go for the
firehouse. How about you?
  #200  
Old October 11th 06, 04:18 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
Fred
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Posts: 62
Default Things to think of before you get married again..

Bob Whiteside wrote:

For a person who claims to be from Minnesota who has so many strong opinions
about men's parental responsibility, you ought to understand the Minnesota
laws regarding women's parental avoidance.


Never heard of it, but then I've only been back for four years.

"Under the Minnesota program, called "A Safe Place for Newborns,", a mother
can anonymously drop off an unharmed newborn without fear of prosecution.
She will be asked to volunteer medical information, but not required to do
so. No identification required, no signed relinquishment, no mandatory
medical information."


So tell me, which do you prefer, having the child dropped off at a
firehouse or hospital, or dropped into a dumpster? That's a very serious
question, and I hope that you will respond in that spirit.

Personally, given those choices, I'll go for the firehouse/hospital.
Best of a set of bad alternatives.
 




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