Interesting local article on baby names

In article ,
(Hillary Israeli) wrote:

In ,
Jenn wrote:

*but the correct foreign pronunciation of a place name is not 'correct'
*if the people who use the name locally differ e.g. Lafayette as a place
*name is often correctly pronounced Lah FAY ut not LA fay ette in the US
*when it is a town or street name. Cairo Il is correctly pronounced Kay

Seriously? Here in Lafayette Hill, PA, we say LAH-fay-ette HILL.


in Nashville it is LAH fayut

In article , Tom Enright
says...

Banty wrote:

In article , Tom Enright
says...

Hillary Israeli wrote:

There is a point where if the number of people who mispronounce a name is
greater than the number who prounounce it "correctly" one should consider
that perhaps the parents or owner of the name is actually in the wrong.

I know someone named "Lara." She pronounced her name LAIR-AH. She
complained that people would prounce her name LAR-AH, it is not that
people are mispronouncing her name, it is the fact that she and/or her
parents have misspelled the name.

But in the case of Joaquin, the name was spelled correctly. The problem is
that others are ignorant of Spanish pronunciation.

Yes, you would think that most people, at least teachers, would be familiar
with the pronunciation of the name Joaquin. Must not be a baseball fan. But
on the other side, I certainly don't expect everyone to the pronunciation of
every non-English name (in non-English speaking countries). The ignorance
may be with those who presume that everyone will spend time studying every
possible pronunciation of the hundreds of millions of names on Earth.

For "Xicigu" I might venture "Shee'-chi-gu" using the PRC convention for
Chinese spelling, but IRL I would probably ask, or at least check.

I don't think there should be an expectation that name spellings be
Anglicized.

I disagree. If I travel to China or Mexico I would assume that a non-English
speaker would have trouble pronouncing my name and it would not bother me a
bit. I believe there is a bit of a double standard at work here. If an
American traveling outside the US were to assume that a Russian or Iraqi can
properly pronounce his name he would be considered a bore. But if a Russian
or Iraqi were to come to the US, the American is an oaf if he doesn't pronounce
their name correctly.

But I believe that Spanish is a special case. Very often you will hear
newscasters state Spanish names or places with a Spanish (more likely,
Mexican) accent. The same newscaster would never say "Pair-ee" instead
of Paris or "Deutschland" instead of Germany.

Both cases are merely a reflection of PCnes at work.



Wow what a rant.

I only advocate that one *asks* the correct pronunciation. And find it puzzling
that you consider Spanish to be an exception to your expectations. (You're not
correct anyway - I've never heard as U.S.ian newscaster say "Me-khi-ko"

Cheers,
Banty

In ,
Jenn wrote:

*In article ,
* (Hillary Israeli) wrote:
*
* In ,
* Jenn wrote:
*
* *but the correct foreign pronunciation of a place name is not 'correct'
* *if the people who use the name locally differ e.g. Lafayette as a place
* *name is often correctly pronounced Lah FAY ut not LA fay ette in the US
* *when it is a town or street name. Cairo Il is correctly pronounced Kay
*
* Seriously? Here in Lafayette Hill, PA, we say LAH-fay-ette HILL.
*
*
*in Nashville it is LAH fayut

so, where is it that you were saying they correctly pronounce it Lah FAY
ut, then?? Just curious!

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

"Jenn" wrote


There is a difference between properly pronouncing "Buena Vista",for
example, and translating. There is nothing PC about correctly
pronouncing a
foregin name, that isnt the same as taking an English name for something
and
then substituing the foreign version.So to pronounce San Joaquin
correctly
is not the equivalent of using Deustchland in place of Germany.
Spanish is used widely in the US, so the Spanich pronounciations are in
current usage and have made it into the English language.



but the correct foreign pronunciation of a place name is not 'correct'
if the people who use the name locally differ

Right. Which is why it isnt neccessarily PC when an announcer uses the
spanis pronounciation , it may indeed be used that way locally.

Hillary Israeli wrote:

In ,
Jenn wrote:

*In article ,
* (Hillary Israeli) wrote:
*
* In ,
* Jenn wrote:
*
* *but the correct foreign pronunciation of a place name is not 'correct'
* *if the people who use the name locally differ e.g. Lafayette as a place
* *name is often correctly pronounced Lah FAY ut not LA fay ette in the US
* *when it is a town or street name. Cairo Il is correctly pronounced Kay
*
* Seriously? Here in Lafayette Hill, PA, we say LAH-fay-ette HILL.
*
*
*in Nashville it is LAH fayut

so, where is it that you were saying they correctly pronounce it Lah FAY
ut, then?? Just curious!

Not Lafayette, but in Atlanta, a major road is Ponce de Leon. Pronounced
locally as Ponce da LEE-on. Took a little while to get used to that. Mostly
called "Ponce".

Mary

In article ,
(Hillary Israeli) wrote:

In ,
Jenn wrote:

*In article ,
* (Hillary Israeli) wrote:
*
* In ,
* Jenn wrote:
*
* *but the correct foreign pronunciation of a place name is not 'correct'
* *if the people who use the name locally differ e.g. Lafayette as a place
* *name is often correctly pronounced Lah FAY ut not LA fay ette in the US
* *when it is a town or street name. Cairo Il is correctly pronounced Kay
*
* Seriously? Here in Lafayette Hill, PA, we say LAH-fay-ette HILL.
*
*
*in Nashville it is LAH fayut

so, where is it that you were saying they correctly pronounce it Lah FAY
ut, then?? Just curious!

it is hard to convey things like this in words it is more like LAH FAYut

not the French LA fayette

"Sophie" wrote in message
...
The *different* spellings are stupid. Alix and Alex. What - Alex for a
boy
and Alix for a girl?

Well, this is one where I'll have to disagree with you. While I'm not fond
of either Alex or Alix as a girl's name (though it could certainly be a
nickname for a longer name like Alexander or Alexandra), different spellings
of the same name for boys versus girls have a quite long and respectable
tradition in many languages. There's Rene/Renee, Loren/Lauren,
Michel/Michelle, and so on. In some cases, there are *slight* variations in
pronunciation, but often it's subtle enough that only native speakers hear
the difference.

Where I live Cameron, Jayden, and Jordan (and all
their spellings) just need to be done too. Way too common.

Well, I hear ya on that one!

Also someone snipped my post. I included all the made up names as well as
boy/girl versions of names. I really can't think of one name I like for a
boy *and* a girl.

I tend to agree, but my husband and I were discussing a recent article I
read in the paper about the problem of children born with undifferentiated
or ambiguous sex organs. In about 1% of births, it's nearly impossible to
determine whether the baby should be a boy or a girl. Since the '60s, the
standard of care has been to assign a gender--typically female--to the baby,
correct the sex organs to "look right" for that gender, and then raise the
child with that gender regardless of what the genes say. But it looks now
like this policy might not be the best thing for the kids, so there's some
movement towards thinking that gender assignment ought to wait until the
child is old enough to decide for him/herself. Problem is, PARENTS don't
like this because they can't figure out how to raise a child who is neither
a boy or a girl. What do you tell people if your child isn't either a boy or
girl yet when you're asked whether its gender? Which pronoun do you use when
referring to the child in the third person? And what name do you give that's
appropriate for both genders.

My husband and I came down on the side that we would want to wait until the
child was old enough to choose to do gender assignment and that we'd try to
a choose a name that would be suitable for either sex so they wouldn't have
to change it later. We agreed, however that given our cultural
preconceptions and predispositions, it would be very, very hard to raise a
genderless child.

Interesting topic for discussion, really!
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)
See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln

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Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
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"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...
Sure. But Joaquin is not pronounced JoeACKwin.

Shrug I once heard a mother calling her daughter Aisling, pronounced
Ays-ling. The proper Irish pronunciation is, of course, Ash-leen, but the
mother obviously saw the name in a book, thought it looked pretty, and
worked out the pronunciation herself.

So there just might be a JoeACKwin whose parents made a similar error.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)
See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

Hillary Israeli wrote:

In ,
Tom Enright wrote:

*There is a point where if the number of people who mispronounce a name is
*greater than the number who prounounce it "correctly" one should consider
*that perhaps the parents or owner of the name is actually in the wrong.

Sure. But Joaquin is not pronounced JoeACKwin.

But it is spelled that way, and in English that's they it would be
pronounced. I am sure the G-H-T in my name would cause much confusion
in non-English speakers, but I wouldn't feel they are insulting me by
their pronounciation.

By the way, my name is spelled T-O-M but it is pronounced "MIKE" (rhymes
with "bike."

-TOE


--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

Fer wrote in WUEcb.20918$TM4.3770@pd7tw2no:

|| There is a difference between properly pronouncing "Buena Vista",for
|| example, and translating. There is nothing PC about correctly
|| pronouncing a foregin name, that isnt the same as taking an English
|| name for something and then substituing the foreign version.So to
|| pronounce San Joaquin correctly is not the equivalent of using
|| Deustchland in place of Germany.

Ok, I am a little confused on this logic.....Pronouncing Buena Vista
properly appose to Good Sight/View (someone help me on the translation) is
different from Deustchland/Germany how?

This is my view:

When one is speaking in (British) English, the countries in Europe include
France, Denmark, Norway, Germany and England.

When one is speaking in Danish, the countries in Europe include
Frankrig, Danmark, Norge, Tyskland and England.

When one is speaking in German, the countries in Europe include
Frankreich, Danemark, Norwegen, Deutschland and England.

When one is speaking in Italian, the countries in Europe include
Francia, Danimarca, Norvegia, Germania and England.

When one is talking about the different newpapers in each country,
the newspapers include La Monde, Die Zeit and the Times. No matter
which language you are speaking, one in the newspapers in France is
called La Monde, and should be pronounced in the French way: it is
not called The World.

Does that help?

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three