When and why this newsgroup was created....

Approximately 10 years ago this ng was created as a forum for parents
and others to discuss spanking and alternatives to child corporal
punishment. There was a time when great debate occurred on this ng, and
a time when parents and others discussed child discipline and corporal
punishment. This was a time when newsgroups were fairly new, and while
tempers flared, the majority of posters recognized and respected the
integrity of a newsgroup and also respected its purpose.

These days are gone. Alt.parenting.spanking has become a joke.
Alt.parenting.spanking no longer attracts parents or many people other
than long term participants that are interested in true discussion.

There are places to discuss interests other than through Newsnet. I
have a vintage Airstream trailer and went to Newsnet for a discussion.
I found nothing put porno ads on this site.

I found a great bulletin board for discussions of Vintage Airstreams. I
also see more and more places to discuss guidance and discipline of
children, and these sites are not part of Newsnet.

LaVonne

Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Approximately 10 years ago this ng was created as a forum for parents

and others to discuss spanking and alternatives to child corporal
punishment. There was a time when great debate occurred on this ng,
and
a time when parents and others discussed child discipline and
corporal
punishment. This was a time when newsgroups were fairly new, and
while
tempers flared, the majority of posters recognized and respected the
integrity of a newsgroup and also respected its purpose.

These days are gone. Alt.parenting.spanking has become a joke.
Alt.parenting.spanking no longer attracts parents or many people
other
than long term participants that are interested in true discussion.

There are places to discuss interests other than through Newsnet. I
have a vintage Airstream trailer and went to Newsnet for a
discussion.
I found nothing put porno ads on this site.

I found a great bulletin board for discussions of Vintage Airstreams.
I
also see more and more places to discuss guidance and discipline of
children, and these sites are not part of Newsnet.

The problem here might also be that there are those that "debate" by
insisting that one piece of information is sufficient to prove their
point.

For instance, I see frequent reference to Strauss. Strauss et al did
considerable work in this field that is usual, and very good fodder for
discussion. The problem is that posters want to look at ONE piece of
information where he changed his mind on ONE issue, and that is ALL
they wish to discuss, as though that somehow negates all the other work
done.

I liken that to our not ever giving credibility to our great geniuses
of science and research because they erred or changed their mind at
some point in the past on their research.

In other words, LaVonne, you have people here who do NOT debate, but
simply attack ideas, concepts, and research by isolating it out of
context.

It's common in ngs and common in life, and the constant for thugs and
mentally deficient folks.

I've always been happy to debate The Question, for instance, but it
seems all the opponents have is insult and innuendo, finally, when they
run out of arguments they can support their contention that there is in
fact a line that demarks abuse from discipline that is identifiable for
practical purposes.

The Canadians, bless'em, made it pretty clear the line is so elusive
that they had to, to keep children safe, set it legally to extremely
limits of risk.

I liked that, but no one wanted to admit what it was...plainly a
sanction against spanking. You can tap a child in Canada and call it
spanking, but you no longer can use switches, boards, even your hands
too hard, and you have severe restrictions on where on the body a child
can be struck, and at what ages that is possible legally.

I'd say it's pretty much all up for spanking in Canada, but for the
mopping up by caselaw that will come, and yet, here we are, seeing
people from the pro side, present it in this very ng when the laws
where changed, as a victory for spanking parents.

Now how can one debate sanely and rationally in such a climate? Eh? as
they say in Canada

You'll excuse me as one of the prime players in disruption here, who
fully admits to it, but always in response to most outrageously
illogical nonsense, and outright lying.

You'll also notice that when folks post with even a scintilla of logic
and reasonableness I do try to treat them fairly.

You may be right that this ng has lost its usefullness, but here is the
bottom line you might want to consider. The other side is reduced to
little twittering stabs of childish nonsense because they know they
have lost entirely.

Seen anything new from them? I post new stuff all the time. They post
old worn out arguments that the lost long ago.

My posting The Question was a bow to that reality. That the argument is
long dead except for those that wish to talk to each other on the pro
spank side, and kid themselves.

In fact, I go much further back to when I watched those debates with
Chris and others. That is were the insults and foolishness began, when
they could not find rational reasonable answers to Chris' facts and
logic. We've just been playing since. The die was cast.

LaVonne

You might consider celebrating a win, and contemplating something I'm
not fully in favor of, as you know...the sad spectacle of parents
having to be more restrained by law, instead of by their hearts.

It won't be long now. But the clean up of what has been done to humans
by the use of this horror of hitting children and calling it by another
name is going to take some time. Expecially with those that have to
justify it because of their own experience at the hands of their
parents.

Kane

Openness is seen as a burden by the
Socialist idealogues.

In the Ivory Tower, LaVonne has a captive audience of students to
propagandize.

They are beholden to her for the course credits.
Those who can't DO, teach.

You actually DARE to mention the name Strauss?
Bwahahaha!

Greegor wrote:
Openness is seen as a burden by the
Socialist idealogues.

How then would it be seen by Fascist idealogues?

In the Ivory Tower, LaVonne has a captive audience of students to
propagandize.

Sadly, there has never been a way to teach in the college setting that
does not have some of that as a given. I myself love the open forum and
the graduate seminar format.

I found rather a lot of both when I attended. But then I went to a
super liberal state college that had a rep as public "Ivy League."
What I saw was even great acceptance of the conservative minority on
campus, myself being one of the latter. I never felt put down or held
down in any way, and my utterances were given their due and time.

They are beholden to her for the course credits.

Last I heard that is true for all kinds of instruction. Not just her
ultraliberal instruction...or, could it be she doesn't do that at all?

Or is it that hitting children is a pleasure you wish to preserve and
reservers for yourself and you'll say anything, no matter how ugly and
bigoted and cruel, to keep yourself in little girls to shower and
spank?

Those who can't DO, teach.

Those who can neither "DO" nor "teach" are prone to make such
statements.

You didn't teach the little girl not to wet herself, you trained her
like a dog, and she got back at you like humans are wont to do.

She's gone. Her mother has lost her. And you get to sit in her home,
the mother's home, lying to us about having a job, freeloading and
diddling the keyboard.

Those who can't do, diddle the keyboard.

Kane

Kane wrote "Those who can't do, diddle the keyboard."
It was not sent telepathically.

Greegor wrote:
Kane wrote "Those who can't do, diddle the keyboard."
It was not sent telepathically.

Ah, but not all who teach are incapable of doing. So the metaphore
suggests by logic....not everyone that diddles the keyboard is
incapable of doing...or did that escape you?

Do you have an Irony Deficiency? Take two satirical comments and call
us in the morning.

Tell us, greegor, the weather keeping you in these day? What is it you
"do" out there in your steel toed boots anyway? More cans and bottles?

Oh, and I nearly forgot. I'd sure like it if you'd answer the simple
question that was part of the thread that you joined with your
comments. You know the one about the use of lethal force to remove
one's child from custody being morally and ethicalyl defensible? Do you
think it is?

See yah over in "greegor and the use of lethal force," hokay?

Or can I assume that my presumption drawn from your conversation with
the Ex Portland LEO was correct, that you do in fact think it okay for
someone to use the same force a cop would, only in this case to remove
children from state custody you or others not in sanctioned authority
believe were wrongly taken?

It's such an easy question, and easy assumption to defend, based on
what you said to the cop: Mocking his claim it was sick to do so, by
pointing out that cops do it.

It sure looks like you are justifying the use of lethal force, or
heaven forfend are you against police use of lethal force to effect
arrests and protection of the citizenry?

It really has to be one or the other. Now doesn't it?

But then I could be wrong. You may have meant something entirely
different that escapes me in my confused and aging state. Help me, and
us (I think others here might be interested too) figure out what you
did mean by that remark to the ex-LEO, in the context of the Christine
and Methhead's use of lethal force.

Is it okay to ask these questions of you, greegor? Or should I ease
up..or should we all ease up? What do you think?

Kane

Do you deny you are a Socialist?

i didnt know this ng 10 years ago, but i easily believe you.

Le 25/01/2005 00:29:
Approximately 10 years ago this ng was created as a forum for parents
and others to discuss spanking and alternatives to child corporal
punishment. There was a time when great debate occurred on this ng, and
a time when parents and others discussed child discipline and corporal
punishment. This was a time when newsgroups were fairly new, and while
tempers flared, the majority of posters recognized and respected the
integrity of a newsgroup and also respected its purpose.

These days are gone. Alt.parenting.spanking has become a joke.
Alt.parenting.spanking no longer attracts parents or many people other
than long term participants that are interested in true discussion.

There are places to discuss interests other than through Newsnet. I
have a vintage Airstream trailer and went to Newsnet for a discussion. I
found nothing put porno ads on this site.

I found a great bulletin board for discussions of Vintage Airstreams. I
also see more and more places to discuss guidance and discipline of
children, and these sites are not part of Newsnet.

LaVonne

Read the FAQ before you believe Doctor Fruit Loops.
Compare to what she says it's about.