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What if a foster parent is a bad parent?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 5th 04, 08:30 AM
angryandsad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What if a foster parent is a bad parent?


This person has two biological children and two foster children living
with him. I've ignored a lot of lapses - drug use by the foster parent
with the kids, lack of supervision, truancy being allowed if not
encouraged and more. I had to stop turning my head Thursday when the
older foster child told me that the biological son had sexually assaulted
a visiting child and the foster son had sexually assaulted the biological
daughter. She said her foster father was aware of the assaults and was
indifferent. I called the police after talking with her a while to make
sure she was telling the truth.

The local child welfare agency removed the foster son from the home in
handcuffs. The biological son was allowed to stay in the home, and the
two girls were placed in the home of the foster father's girlfriend. (The
foster father's girlfriend is the mother of the other victim.) The two
girls told me they were staying there for a few months, but were allowed
to come home if the son was not there.

Here's my problem, and I hope someone can help me. The girlfriend did not
report the assault to any authority when her daughter told her about it.
She works nights, so three girls, aged 16, 14, and 12 are alone five
nights a week. The younger two are the victims. The father, who was
furious with me for reporting the abuse, tried to get the firls to recant.
I watched the son and daughter leave together last night at 11 pm when I
was coming home. Clearly, both adults are ignoring the restrictions.

The local child welfare agency seems to be playing fast and loose with the
rules as well. The family lives in a three bedroom house. The father has
one bedroom, the biological son has one, and the two girls and the foster
son shared the third bedroom. The other victim slept there five nights a
week before the assaults - who knows where they put her. The family does
not have sufficient income to care for all these children. Utilities have
been shut off and the children are often hungry.

Can anyone give me advice? I don't want any of these kids to suffer any
more.


  #2  
Old September 5th 04, 02:45 PM
Fern5827
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Big no-no for the sexes to be sharing one bedroom.

and the
two girls were placed in the home of the foster father's girlfriend.


CPS should be looking for relative or kinship care, rather than *stranger
foster care.*

ASFA (governing Federal Law states relatives have standing).

I suggest you look at NG alt support child protective services, and you might
want to call CPS again.

Backchannel your state and network locally.

The fosters on this NG will tell you that the fosters might have a GAL or CASA
appointed. You could call them up.

The children should have their names and numbers. At ages 14, they are old
enough to have standing in some court.

Thanks for helping.

Angry and sad---wrote:

Subject: What if a foster parent is a bad parent?
From: "angryandsad"
Date: 9/5/2004 3:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: outsupport.com


This person has two biological children and two foster children living
with him. I've ignored a lot of lapses - drug use by the foster parent
with the kids, lack of supervision, truancy being allowed if not
encouraged and more. I had to stop turning my head Thursday when the
older foster child told me that the biological son had sexually assaulted
a visiting child and the foster son had sexually assaulted the biological
daughter. She said her foster father was aware of the assaults and was
indifferent. I called the police after talking with her a while to make
sure she was telling the truth.

The local child welfare agency removed the foster son from the home in
handcuffs. The biological son was allowed to stay in the home, and the
two girls were placed in the home of the foster father's girlfriend. (The
foster father's girlfriend is the mother of the other victim.) The two
girls told me they were staying there for a few months, but were allowed
to come home if the son was not there.

Here's my problem, and I hope someone can help me. The girlfriend did not
report the assault to any authority when her daughter told her about it.
She works nights, so three girls, aged 16, 14, and 12 are alone five
nights a week. The younger two are the victims. The father, who was
furious with me for reporting the abuse, tried to get the firls to recant.
I watched the son and daughter leave together last night at 11 pm when I
was coming home. Clearly, both adults are ignoring the restrictions.

The local child welfare agency seems to be playing fast and loose with the
rules as well. The family lives in a three bedroom house. The father has
one bedroom, the biological son has one, and the two girls and the foster
son shared the third bedroom. The other victim slept there five nights a
week before the assaults - who knows where they put her. The family does
not have sufficient income to care for all these children. Utilities have
been shut off and the children are often hungry.

Can anyone give me advice? I don't want any of these kids to suffer any
more.










  #3  
Old September 6th 04, 01:51 AM
Kane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 05 Sep 2004 13:45:42 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

Big no-no for the sexes to be sharing one bedroom.


Above age five. Don't you get anything right? The age might vary
slightly state to state.

and the
two girls were placed in the home of the foster father's girlfriend.


CPS should be looking for relative or kinship care, rather than

*stranger
foster care.*


You didn't notice, did you now?

"(The foster father's girlfriend is the mother of the other victim.)

That IS a relative. And should, and can are two entirely different
things. Your advice does nothing but throw confusion into the mix for
a perfectly valid question this person asks. Now they have to wonder
and worry about something new.

And who says these things don't happen in relative placements anyway?

ASFA (governing Federal Law states relatives have standing).


Only in that states are to attempt to find placements with them before
other placements...not that the state MUST place with them.

I suggest you look at NG alt support child protective services, and

you might
want to call CPS again.


And I suggest that before leaping off and following any advice from
such as The Plant, the author I reply to here, you give careful
consideration to other sources, and have It's advice vetted by an
attorney. I has some bad habits about giving dangerous advice.

I suggest you look at policy for your state, and read the section on
how to report an alledged abuse. THAT is what you are doing...the
foster status is secondary to the claim you are making. The Plant
likes to muddy things up if possible.

Backchannel your state and network locally.


How does one backchannel a state? Direct contact, outside of referance
to web contact, is not backchanneling. It's front channeling.

The fosters on this NG will tell you that the fosters might have a

GAL or CASA
appointed. You could call them up.


Let me see now. Yew wouldn't tell them, but the foster's might.
Interesting thinking patterns you have. Evasive and overly self
preservation reactions even when not need.

The children should have their names and numbers. At ages 14, they

are old
enough to have standing in some court.


The children should have whose names and numbers?

Thanks for helping.


Of course. Now if we could just get you to without muddying things up
with your solid waste Fertilizer.


Angry and sad---wrote:

Subject: What if a foster parent is a bad parent?
From: "angryandsad"

Date: 9/5/2004 3:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: outsupport.com


This person has two biological children and two foster children

living
with him. I've ignored a lot of lapses - drug use by the foster

parent
with the kids, lack of supervision, truancy being allowed if not
encouraged and more. I had to stop turning my head Thursday when

the
older foster child told me that the biological son had sexually

assaulted
a visiting child and the foster son had sexually assaulted the

biological
daughter. She said her foster father was aware of the assaults and

was
indifferent. I called the police after talking with her a while to

make
sure she was telling the truth.


If you focus on the issue of foster parents you immediately create a
conflicted atmosphere. While you can SAY it is a foster placement
where this is happening, focus on the interests of the child, and
report this as suspected abuse and or neglect.

It's basically a failure to supervise issue as far as "foster" issues
go, but it is a sex abuse case for the children involved. Keep your
facts sorted out, report only what you observe, not what you
speculate. It's much more powerful in the investigation phase, and
even more if it goes to criminal trial.

Same for the civil aspects, likely to impact the foster parents. They
will most likely lose their certification right off, and their own
children will also likely to be removed during the investigation for
their safety, and preservations of evidence.

Some here will try to con you and tell you they are being forcefully
taken into custody, as though that is a BAD thing, when it's in fact
the only thing that IS safe children in such a situation.

The local child welfare agency removed the foster son from the home

in
handcuffs. The biological son was allowed to stay in the home, and

the
two girls were placed in the home of the foster father's girlfriend.

(The
foster father's girlfriend is the mother of the other victim.) The

two
girls told me they were staying there for a few months, but were

allowed
to come home if the son was not there.


Since none of this has gone to court, don't make assumptions. The bio
son may well be charged if this is reported properly, as it should be.
He is, if allegations are true, a dangerous offender. The parent's may
or may not be complicite, but they surely are, if the boy sexually
assualted othersm they knew it, they are, if the statutes and policy
cover it, in some deep fertilizer on a number of counts.

Here's my problem, and I hope someone can help me. The girlfriend

did not
report the assault to any authority when her daughter told her about

it.

THAT is the problem. People do NOT report when they should, and in
this ng that is ENCOURAGED by asking for measures that frighten people
away from reporting.

She works nights, so three girls, aged 16, 14, and 12 are alone five
nights a week. The younger two are the victims. The father, who

was
furious with me for reporting the abuse, tried to get the firls to

recant.

This is getting a bit complex. The father is not the boyfriend, I take
it, the foster parent?

I watched the son and daughter leave together last night at 11 pm

when I
was coming home. Clearly, both adults are ignoring the

restrictions.

We have a foster parent dad, and a foster parent mother, and a foster
parent dad's girlfriend. Do I have this correct?

Which adults are you referring to? and Which son and daughter? The
perp and the victim?

The local child welfare agency seems to be playing fast and loose

with the
rules as well.


Could be, and could not be.

The family lives in a three bedroom house. The father has
one bedroom, the biological son has one, and the two girls and the

foster
son shared the third bedroom. The other victim slept there five

nights a
week before the assaults - who knows where they put her. The family

does
not have sufficient income to care for all these children.

Utilities have
been shut off and the children are often hungry.


No. Foster parents routinely with this many kids are on easy street
and shopping for a yacht...according to the yahoos on this ng.

Are you sure these are children placed by the state, or a gathering of
children from friends and family?

Can anyone give me advice? I don't want any of these kids to suffer

any
more.


The advice is simple. Follow the law. Report this, but get the people
and relationships sorted out and report only what you KNOW, not what
you speculate. "Speculation" very quickly can morph into sounding like
a false allegation call to those that staff the child abuse hotlines.

Let the experts make the calls on what took place or is most likely to
have.

If they already know about this family and the those things you say
they do, as the foster boy being arrested, and you don't think CPS
will respond, you need to call 911 and ask for police dispatch,
non-emergency in most areas, and ask to report a suspected sexual
abuse.

There is more than one way to get CPS to take notice when they have
been conned, which apparently they have, given the mother didn't
report the sexual abuse.

By the way, do you have some official knowledge the bio son sexually
assaulted? That's a serious charge with serious consequences so if you
report it report HOW you know this. .

Or again, you might sound like a vindictive neighbor who doesn't like
their dog crapping in your yard.

Avoid the hyperbolic rantings style of some of our more lurid and
mindless posters in these ngs. Like accusing CPS of playing fast and
loose when all you have is the appearance of that without
substantiation that that is there intent in this case. There may be
much they do not know...given the probablity related to your report
that a sexual assualt is being withheld from them.

And it sounds like more than one person is trying to avoid CPS
investigation.

Of course, according to some here CPS wouldn't report if they did find
a sexual or other kind of abuse going on, and they claim that foster's
abuse children at a rate computed as 8 times more likley than the bio
parent population.

Don't expect huge amounts of rational support here, except for a very
very few. Try any of the foster parents, though. They know what's up
with such things.

And make that call. A child perp on the loose is just as dangerous as
an adult one.

Kane
  #4  
Old September 6th 04, 06:14 AM
angryandsad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kane wrote:
Angry and sad---wrote:


Subject: What if a foster parent is a bad parent?
From: "angryandsad"
Date: 9/5/2004 3:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

outsupport.com


[argument with someone else deleted - I didn't understand most of the
jargon in the first response, anyway.)
This person has two biological children and two foster children

living
with him. I've ignored a lot of lapses - drug use by the foster

parent
with the kids, lack of supervision, truancy being allowed if not
encouraged and more. I had to stop turning my head Thursday when

the
older foster child told me that the biological son had sexually

assaulted
a visiting child and the foster son had sexually assaulted the

biological
daughter. She said her foster father was aware of the assaults and

was
indifferent. I called the police after talking with her a while to

make
sure she was telling the truth.


If you focus on the issue of foster parents you immediately create a
conflicted atmosphere. While you can SAY it is a foster placement
where this is happening, focus on the interests of the child, and
report this as suspected abuse and or neglect.


I only posted here because I was looking for somewhere to ask for advice
and I took a chance. I sure didn't mean to insult any one who fosters;
you're better people than I am. I thought that people here would be
interested in helping the children.

And I am grateful for your advice.


It's basically a failure to supervise issue as far as "foster" issues
go, but it is a sex abuse case for the children involved. Keep your
facts sorted out, report only what you observe, not what you
speculate. It's much more powerful in the investigation phase, and
even more if it goes to criminal trial.


I called the police, as I mentioned, not the local child welfare agency
because it was the sexual assault that immediately concerned me. As I
said, I had ignored many things, all of which I witnessed, regarding the
lack of parenting by the foster father. I assumed the kids were someplace
where someone cared about them and thus better off, if nothing else.

I was very careful only to tell the police and the others who followed up
only about the sexual assaults. I mentioned nothing else. It was only
after I realized that the foster father and new foster mother were
ignoring the new guidelines and that the children were still at risk that
I posted here. (I've been asking everyone I know for advice, too, I just
hoped for some from someone with actual experience with the system.)


Same for the civil aspects, likely to impact the foster parents. They
will most likely lose their certification right off, and their own
children will also likely to be removed during the investigation for
their safety, and preservations of evidence.


That's what I was talking about - they removed both the foster and
biological daughters, but they're back in the home as much as they were
before the police and child welfare agency representatives came out on
Thursday.

I'm not sure how the father was certified in the first place. The
guidelines for my state were clearly not followed. I suspect that an
exception was made for the first foster child, the daughter, because no
one else would take her on. The foster son's placement is more confusing.
He had twice in the last month been arrested at the foster father's home
for running away from a juvenile detention center. After the second
arrest, the foster father became his foster father rather than being
charged for harboring a fugitive. Again, the exception may have been made
to try to save the boy.


Some here will try to con you and tell you they are being forcefully
taken into custody, as though that is a BAD thing, when it's in fact
the only thing that IS safe children in such a situation.


I would agree, if the girls were safer.

One reason I turned a blind eye to some of the less savory aspects of the
homelife there is that it was so immensely better for the kids there than
in their original homes. Both of the foster children had mothers who were
addicts and absent fathers. Both of them have been scarred by their
experience and both have a lot of problems. This is the first time in my
life I have felt any pity for a sexual predator.

The local child welfare agency removed the foster son from the home

in
handcuffs. The biological son was allowed to stay in the home, and

the
two girls were placed in the home of the foster father's girlfriend.

(The
foster father's girlfriend is the mother of the other victim.) The

two
girls told me they were staying there for a few months, but were

allowed
to come home if the son was not there.


Since none of this has gone to court, don't make assumptions. The bio
son may well be charged if this is reported properly, as it should be.
He is, if allegations are true, a dangerous offender. The parent's may
or may not be complicite, but they surely are, if the boy sexually
assualted othersm they knew it, they are, if the statutes and policy
cover it, in some deep fertilizer on a number of counts.


I don't know the details of the follow up. The foster father is not
speaking to me, so my information comes from the girls. I have not asked
them any questions - this is what they have volunteered. That they're
still visiting me tells me that they're glad I reported it.

Here's my problem, and I hope someone can help me. The girlfriend

did not
report the assault to any authority when her daughter told her about

it.

THAT is the problem. People do NOT report when they should, and in
this ng that is ENCOURAGED by asking for measures that frighten people
away from reporting.


I'm not sure why she didn't report it, other than the fact that the boy
who assaulted her daughter is her boyfriend's son and like a son to her.
I can't understand that reasoning, nor can I understand why she didn't
take her daughter to the hospital.

I really can't understand why this lapse was rewarded with the gift of two
more girls.

She works nights, so three girls, aged 16, 14, and 12 are alone five
nights a week. The younger two are the victims. The father, who

was
furious with me for reporting the abuse, tried to get the firls to

recant.

This is getting a bit complex. The father is not the boyfriend, I take
it, the foster parent?


No, he is. There's only two adults involved here. Mr. A., my neighbor,
is the biolgical father of B, a boy, and C, a girl. He is the foster
father of D, a girl, and E, a boy. Ms. F, his girlfriend, is the mother
of G, a girl. The allegation is that B assaulted G and E assaulted C.

I watched the son and daughter leave together last night at 11 pm

when I
was coming home. Clearly, both adults are ignoring the

restrictions.

We have a foster parent dad, and a foster parent mother, and a foster
parent dad's girlfriend. Do I have this correct?


Which adults are you referring to? and Which son and daughter? The
perp and the victim?


I hope I cleared it up. It is ridiculously complicated.

C says she is not allowed at her dad's house if B is home. This is being
ignored. I would think that B is not officially allowed to go to Ms. F's
house, since his victim lives there. C told me today that she and B were
together last night because her dad told B to walk her home. She said G
ran and hid when B came in. I didn't know what to tell the child. She
was upset because G was so frightened, but she is only 12 and can't be
expected to walk around at night alone. I guess her dad couldn't bring
himself to do the escorting. I don't know why Ms. F allowed him to come
in - she could have sent him home.

The local child welfare agency seems to be playing fast and loose

with the
rules as well.


Could be, and could not be.


I'm going by the guidelines they publish and my personal knowledge of the
situation right up until I called the police.

The family lives in a three bedroom house. The father has
one bedroom, the biological son has one, and the two girls and the

foster
son shared the third bedroom. The other victim slept there five

nights a
week before the assaults - who knows where they put her. The family

does
not have sufficient income to care for all these children.

Utilities have
been shut off and the children are often hungry.


No. Foster parents routinely with this many kids are on easy street
and shopping for a yacht...according to the yahoos on this ng.


As I said, I complained about none of this because I thought the children
were loved. One reason I feel so guilty here is that I wrote a letter of
recommendation for Mr. A when he was trying to gain custody of D. The
guideline say that foster parents must have sufficient income to support
their own family. The only income the family had last winter was the
stipend for D. Mr. A is seasonally employed. I was actually happy for
them - D got a home and A, B and C got to eat.

These people are my neighbors. The only reason we have more money than
they do is that we are both employed indoors and thus year-round, and we
don't have children. I am not criticizing their poverty.

Are you sure these are children placed by the state, or a gathering of
children from friends and family?


I'm not sure of the distinction. Mr. A did not sign up to be a foster
parent for any child; he was approved for D when she ran away from her
last placement. D is Ms. F's biological grand-niece. Mr. A has known her
all of her life. Ms. F was not willing to take her in at the time.
I explained how he gained custody of E above. So, the state placed them
there, but Mr. A began the process.


Can anyone give me advice? I don't want any of these kids to suffer

any
more.


The advice is simple. Follow the law. Report this, but get the people
and relationships sorted out and report only what you KNOW, not what
you speculate. "Speculation" very quickly can morph into sounding like
a false allegation call to those that staff the child abuse hotlines.


I did a better job explaing the relationships to the authorities than I
did here. The child welfare agency was familiar with the names and
relationships. I only reported what D told me she heard from C and G
directly. I did not mention the rumor she said was circulating that both
boys had been involved in a gang rape, and I sure didn't mention drugs or
anything peripheral like that.

I also reported that Mr. A had responded to the news that I had called the
police by telling me that he would see to it that the girls changed their
stories. He said that telling the truth, and I am quoting him here, would
break up his family. I liked the guy right up until I realized he would
sacrifice the girls for the boys.

Let the experts make the calls on what took place or is most likely to
have.
If they already know about this family and the those things you say
they do, as the foster boy being arrested, and you don't think CPS
will respond, you need to call 911 and ask for police dispatch,
non-emergency in most areas, and ask to report a suspected sexual
abuse.


I don't think further assaults have taken place. I worry about what will
happen the first night Ms. G has to go to work.

There is more than one way to get CPS to take notice when they have
been conned, which apparently they have, given the mother didn't
report the sexual abuse.


That's what I am interested in. What are these ways?

By the way, do you have some official knowledge the bio son sexually
assaulted? That's a serious charge with serious consequences so if you
report it report HOW you know this. .


I did. I even had a friend who is a social worker in another state speak
to D before I called the police.

Or again, you might sound like a vindictive neighbor who doesn't like
their dog crapping in your yard.


That's actually funny. I'm the only one on the block who doesn't complain
about their dog. What I failed to convey was that these people were my
friends until Thursday. The children came over to my house for snacks,
when they fought with their siblings or father, when they wanted help with
their homework, when they wanted to watch tv and their power was off, or
to show me things they'd made. The father and I talked daily. We did
favors for each other. My friendship does not extend to covering up sexual
assaults, though.


Avoid the hyperbolic rantings style of some of our more lurid and
mindless posters in these ngs. Like accusing CPS of playing fast and
loose when all you have is the appearance of that without
substantiation that that is there intent in this case. There may be
much they do not know...given the probablity related to your report
that a sexual assualt is being withheld from them.


It's not being withheld from them. After the police came, B's probation
officer called me. Then D's case worker. Then E's probation officer.
Then E's case worker. They removed C and D, remember? The child welfare
agency, the private agency that supervises D's placement, and juvenile
probation were all at the home Thursday night.

I think the child welfare agency was deliberately misled by Mr. A and Ms.
F. I think they agreed to conditions they had no intention of keeping. I
doubt that Ms. F mentioned her work schedule.

I blame the agency for not asking. I blame the agency for not asking why
she didn't report the assault.

And it sounds like more than one person is trying to avoid CPS
investigation.


I'm not sure what you mean.

Of course, according to some here CPS wouldn't report if they did find
a sexual or other kind of abuse going on, and they claim that foster's
abuse children at a rate computed as 8 times more likley than the bio
parent population.


Good lord. I guess that sort of thing goes on in any discussion group, no
matter how benign the subject matter. There's a reason it makes headlines
when a foster family abuses their foster children; it's rare.

I want to make it clear that I think the foster father in this case is
guilty of negligence, but not of any active abuse.

Don't expect huge amounts of rational support here, except for a very
very few. Try any of the foster parents, though. They know what's up
with such things.


That's what I was hoping for. I truly didn't expect any anti-fostering
contingent. The only people I thought were opposed to foster families
were people who had their own children removed from their custody for good
cause.

And make that call. A child perp on the loose is just as dangerous as
an adult one.


That's what's keeping me up at night. Again, these are my neighbors, as
are other children.

I just need to know who to call to make sure the girls are really safe.
I'm afraid if I call the agency and say they're allowing B to be in the
same home with G I'll sound like the vindictive neighbor you mentioned
above. I'm afraid if I don't, there will be further assaults.


Susan

Kane

  #5  
Old September 6th 04, 01:34 PM
Sherman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

snipped


That's what's keeping me up at night. Again, these are my neighbors, as
are other children.

I just need to know who to call to make sure the girls are really safe.
I'm afraid if I call the agency and say they're allowing B to be in the
same home with G I'll sound like the vindictive neighbor you mentioned
above. I'm afraid if I don't, there will be further assaults.


Susan



Please put your concerns clearly in a WRITTEN letter to the appropriate
authorities with copies sent to interested parties. Since the folks already
know that you have expressed your concern, this will be a more effective
manner.

A sample for you to consider is available he

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/oaxamaxao/cps.html

Sincerely,
Sherman.


  #6  
Old September 6th 04, 01:39 PM
Sherman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

snipped

I just need to know who to call to make sure the girls are really safe.
I'm afraid if I call the agency and say they're allowing B to be in the
same home with G I'll sound like the vindictive neighbor you mentioned
above. I'm afraid if I don't, there will be further assaults.


Susan


And other words of advice:

Don't pay any attention to the babbling drivel that our most senile poster,
The Fern, writes. It doesn't know squat! Further, the information is not
only inaccurate, misleading and flat-out wrong, it is dangerous to accept
anything it posts as even close to any honest, knowledgeable fact.

Sherman.


  #7  
Old September 6th 04, 04:25 PM
Fern5827
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

She Man and Cain apparently are aware of all the states in the US Policy and
Procedure Manuals on CPS. (NOT)

However, CPS is being reformed through the efforts of just such folks as us.

It's very easy to sling mud. Also very declasse. The content of their posts
is almost all to discredit those who are involved in the efforts to restructure
CPS


The ages of the kids were such that they should not be SLEEPING IN THE SAME
BEDROOM.


You did not post your state, so we cannot refer you to others who have reported
foster abuses.


However, there is no doubt that CPS is a seriously flawed and deficient
institution.

And now you are honestly reporting it, Susan.

Good luck.

These are complex issues, and CPS invokes confidentiality to hide their
mistakes.

As in FL, TX, and NJ recently made clear in national headlines.

  #8  
Old September 7th 04, 04:14 AM
Kane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 01:14:26 -0400, "angryandsad"
wrote:

Kane wrote:
Angry and sad---wrote:


Subject: What if a foster parent is a bad parent?
From: "angryandsad"
Date: 9/5/2004 3:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

boutsupport.com


[argument with someone else deleted - I didn't understand most of the
jargon in the first response, anyway.)
This person has two biological children and two foster children

living
with him. I've ignored a lot of lapses - drug use by the foster

parent
with the kids, lack of supervision, truancy being allowed if not
encouraged and more. I had to stop turning my head Thursday when

the
older foster child told me that the biological son had sexually

assaulted
a visiting child and the foster son had sexually assaulted the

biological
daughter. She said her foster father was aware of the assaults and

was
indifferent. I called the police after talking with her a while to

make
sure she was telling the truth.


If you focus on the issue of foster parents you immediately create

a
conflicted atmosphere. While you can SAY it is a foster placement
where this is happening, focus on the interests of the child, and
report this as suspected abuse and or neglect.


I only posted here because I was looking for somewhere to ask for

advice
and I took a chance. I sure didn't mean to insult any one who

fosters;
you're better people than I am. I thought that people here would be
interested in helping the children.


Oh trust me on this. Insulting a foster would be a major
accomplishment. They are so accustomed to insults, and even lies about
them, they have a very thick skin and a forgiving nature, even taking
the kids back that lie by virtue of being parent coached to do so.

Rather loving folks, most foster parents. Real love.

And I am grateful for your advice.


Pay closer attention to that from foster parents (I'm not one, never
have been, known a lot of them though and coached a few that were
relatives and less that were not).

It's basically a failure to supervise issue as far as "foster"

issues
go, but it is a sex abuse case for the children involved. Keep your
facts sorted out, report only what you observe, not what you
speculate. It's much more powerful in the investigation phase, and
even more if it goes to criminal trial.


I called the police, as I mentioned, not the local child welfare

agency
because it was the sexual assault that immediately concerned me. As

I
said, I had ignored many things, all of which I witnessed, regarding

the
lack of parenting by the foster father. I assumed the kids were

someplace
where someone cared about them and thus better off, if nothing else.


"Lack of parenting" is by itself to vague to be of use in a report.
You'll be asked specifics. Be prepared to answer. The questions will
be about food, shelter, health matters, school, supervision.

I was very careful only to tell the police and the others who

followed up
only about the sexual assaults. I mentioned nothing else. It was

only
after I realized that the foster father and new foster mother were
ignoring the new guidelines and that the children were still at risk

that
I posted here. (I've been asking everyone I know for advice, too, I

just
hoped for some from someone with actual experience with the system.)

Same for the civil aspects, likely to impact the foster parents.

They
will most likely lose their certification right off, and their own
children will also likely to be removed during the investigation

for
their safety, and preservations of evidence.


That's what I was talking about - they removed both the foster and
biological daughters, but they're back in the home as much as they

were
before the police and child welfare agency representatives came out

on
Thursday.


That would be, unless charges are unfounded for some reason, not
acceptable. The agency should be informed immediately. And if no
action is taken, the police. If this is a founded sex abuse case the
police have a record most likely.

I'm not sure how the father was certified in the first place. The
guidelines for my state were clearly not followed. I suspect that an
exception was made for the first foster child, the daughter, because

no
one else would take her on.


That's possible. Why don't you foster? Why won't you?

And what was it about the foster father that makes you think he wasn't
qualified in the first place?

The foster son's placement is more confusing.
He had twice in the last month been arrested at the foster father's home
for running away from a juvenile detention center. After the second
arrest, the foster father became his foster father rather than being
charged for harboring a fugitive. Again, the exception may have been

made
to try to save the boy.


That is a common way for older, and even a few younger children, to
come into state custody and foster care. In my state it's called,
"special certs.' Just means it's for a specific child and if the
person isn't already a foster, for only that child.

Teens bring friends home now and then in trouble with family and ask
mom and dad to shelter them. That would be parental interference so I
do NOT recommend it. I recommend calling CPS if that happens to you.

Some here will try to con you and tell you they are being

forcefully
taken into custody, as though that is a BAD thing, when it's in

fact
the only thing that IS safe children in such a situation.


I would agree, if the girls were safer.


Yep. According to some they were forcefully taken into state custody
with horrible consequences to the child, and cruelty as "child abuse."
You are among the logically dysfunctional in some instances here.

Unethical too.

One reason I turned a blind eye to some of the less savory aspects of

the
homelife there is that it was so immensely better for the kids there

than
in their original homes.


The truth is that I too have a beef on such matters. Much of what USED
to be considered abusive in the old days was nothing more than
lifestyle issues....not proven abusive at all. Like five kids to a
bed, or a dirty house and yard. Kids are taken for those things any
more...though they will be noted along with the more serious reasons
the kids ARE taken, because the investigation requires that all
factors that COULD be of effect be listed.

Both of the foster children had mothers who were
addicts and absent fathers.


Gee, never heard of that before.

Both of them have been scarred by their
experience and both have a lot of problems. This is the first time

in my
life I have felt any pity for a sexual predator.


There's probably more than enough sexual abuse of them in their past
to account for their development going haywire on the psycho sexual
component.

Kids that are ****ed by family members and or momma's boyfriend, or
are rented out in trade for dope, or passed around as party favors at
a snort party tend to be a bit confused as to normal sexual behaviors.

I'm not exaggerating either. That's mild compared to some of the
things that DO happen that are too gross to write about here.

The local child welfare agency removed the foster son from the home

in
handcuffs. The biological son was allowed to stay in the home, and

the
two girls were placed in the home of the foster father's

girlfriend.
(The
foster father's girlfriend is the mother of the other victim.) The

two
girls told me they were staying there for a few months, but were

allowed
to come home if the son was not there.


Since none of this has gone to court, don't make assumptions. The

bio
son may well be charged if this is reported properly, as it should

be.
He is, if allegations are true, a dangerous offender. The parent's

may
or may not be complicite, but they surely are, if the boy sexually
assualted othersm they knew it, they are, if the statutes and

policy
cover it, in some deep fertilizer on a number of counts.


I don't know the details of the follow up. The foster father is not
speaking to me, so my information comes from the girls. I have not

asked
them any questions - this is what they have volunteered. That

they're
still visiting me tells me that they're glad I reported it.


How are you protecting yourself in these encounters with the girls?
One of the favorite tricks of perps is to claim that others did the
dirty deeds, and to work on the children to confuse them into
agreeing..or threaten them and family with harm if they don't...or the
lowest of the low threaten to kill their pets.

And being female won't protect you from allegations. Parental
interference would be one if the state thinks you are harboring those
children against the placement they are in.

Here's my problem, and I hope someone can help me. The girlfriend

did not
report the assault to any authority when her daughter told her

about
it.

THAT is the problem. People do NOT report when they should, and in
this ng that is ENCOURAGED by asking for measures that frighten

people
away from reporting.


I'm not sure why she didn't report it, other than the fact that the

boy
who assaulted her daughter is her boyfriend's son and like a son to

her.

That kind of confusion is rampant. There are those here that foster
confusion about what is or isn't sexual abuse. They seem to want it to
be violent rape for it to be classified as sexual abuse.

I can't understand that reasoning, nor can I understand why she

didn't
take her daughter to the hospital.


She may well have been afraid of being implicated in the acts. Or SHE
WAS IMPLICATED, and afraid.

I really can't understand why this lapse was rewarded with the gift

of two
more girls.


If the state doesn't know what you do?

She works nights, so three girls, aged 16, 14, and 12 are alone

five
nights a week. The younger two are the victims. The father, who

was
furious with me for reporting the abuse, tried to get the firls to

recant.

This is getting a bit complex. The father is not the boyfriend, I

take
it, the foster parent?


No, he is. There's only two adults involved here. Mr. A., my

neighbor,
is the biolgical father of B, a boy, and C, a girl. He is the foster
father of D, a girl, and E, a boy. Ms. F, his girlfriend, is the

mother
of G, a girl. The allegation is that B assaulted G and E assaulted

C.

Got it. I never quite get used to these soap operas, but I don't have
the practice CPS caseworkers get every day all day long. I need a
diagram. 0;-

I watched the son and daughter leave together last night at 11 pm

when I
was coming home. Clearly, both adults are ignoring the

restrictions.

We have a foster parent dad, and a foster parent mother, and a

foster
parent dad's girlfriend. Do I have this correct?


Which adults are you referring to? and Which son and daughter? The
perp and the victim?


I hope I cleared it up. It is ridiculously complicated.


But common. Add in the relatives that may be invested in the childre,
g'parents, aunts, uncles, etc and then you got "complicated."

I used to help relatives a lot in such situations.

C says she is not allowed at her dad's house if B is home. This is

being
ignored.


Sloppy casework if that is the criteria, but it may be a judges
decision. But then, he IS her father and he has HIS rights, no doubt
spoken for loudly in court by his attorney.

He has broken the agreement. The court should be notified. Notifying
the worker would be the correct channel to follow, but if that fails
then a letter to the judge might be useful.

I would think that B is not officially allowed to go to Ms. F's
house, since his victim lives there. C told me today that she and B

were
together last night because her dad told B to walk her home. She

said G
ran and hid when B came in. I didn't know what to tell the child.

She
was upset because G was so frightened, but she is only 12 and can't

be
expected to walk around at night alone. I guess her dad couldn't

bring
himself to do the escorting. I don't know why Ms. F allowed him to

come
in - she could have sent him home.


Aww..this isn't foster care. This is not what fostering is about.

The local child welfare agency seems to be playing fast and loose

with the
rules as well.


Could be, and could not be.


I'm going by the guidelines they publish and my personal knowledge of

the
situation right up until I called the police.


Sounds reasonable and prudent.

The family lives in a three bedroom house. The father has
one bedroom, the biological son has one, and the two girls and the

foster
son shared the third bedroom. The other victim slept there five

nights a
week before the assaults - who knows where they put her. The

family
does
not have sufficient income to care for all these children.

Utilities have
been shut off and the children are often hungry.


No. Foster parents routinely with this many kids are on easy street
and shopping for a yacht...according to the yahoos on this ng.


As I said, I complained about none of this because I thought the

children
were loved. One reason I feel so guilty here is that I wrote a

letter of
recommendation for Mr. A when he was trying to gain custody of D.

The
guideline say that foster parents must have sufficient income to

support
their own family. The only income the family had last winter was the
stipend for D. Mr. A is seasonally employed. I was actually happy

for
them - D got a home and A, B and C got to eat.


Well if he could fool you, someone that sees him all the time, it
doesn't come as any surprise that he fooled CPS. They wouldn't see him
more than once a week, if that.

These people are my neighbors. The only reason we have more money

than
they do is that we are both employed indoors and thus year-round, and

we
don't have children. I am not criticizing their poverty.


Didn't think you were. I was teasing about the yacht.

Are you sure these are children placed by the state, or a gathering

of
children from friends and family?


I'm not sure of the distinction. Mr. A did not sign up to be a

foster
parent for any child; he was approved for D when she ran away from

her
last placement.


Ah, the old special certs route. Should have guessed. That's a common
way, but in many states there is considerable reluctance to place MORE
children with a SC family. They aren't even trained at the point of
placement, and must quickly be gotten into classes and background
checks run, along with a quick walkthough to do a home safety check.

D is Ms. F's biological grand-niece. Mr. A has known her
all of her life. Ms. F was not willing to take her in at the time.
I explained how he gained custody of E above. So, the state placed

them
there, but Mr. A began the process.

Can anyone give me advice? I don't want any of these kids to

suffer
any
more.


The advice is simple. Follow the law. Report this, but get the

people
and relationships sorted out and report only what you KNOW, not

what
you speculate. "Speculation" very quickly can morph into sounding

like
a false allegation call to those that staff the child abuse

hotlines.

I did a better job explaing the relationships to the authorities than

I
did here. The child welfare agency was familiar with the names and
relationships. I only reported what D told me she heard from C and G
directly. I did not mention the rumor she said was circulating that

both
boys had been involved in a gang rape, and I sure didn't mention

drugs or
anything peripheral like that.


Oh dear! If someone knows what you have heard, they need to report it.

I also reported that Mr. A had responded to the news that I had

called the
police by telling me that he would see to it that the girls changed

their
stories. He said that telling the truth, and I am quoting him here,

would
break up his family. I liked the guy right up until I realized he

would
sacrifice the girls for the boys.


Yep. Sounds about right. And demonstrates what people will do to avoid
trouble. Especially when they bear responsibility.

It might be difficult to get the girls to change their story though,
but some here would tell you they are probably lying teens taking
advantage of caregivers.etc.

Let the experts make the calls on what took place or is most likely

to
have.
If they already know about this family and the those things you say
they do, as the foster boy being arrested, and you don't think CPS
will respond, you need to call 911 and ask for police dispatch,
non-emergency in most areas, and ask to report a suspected sexual
abuse.


I don't think further assaults have taken place. I worry about what

will
happen the first night Ms. G has to go to work.


Not much you can do about that. Other than look for what IS a fact and
report ONLY that.

There is more than one way to get CPS to take notice when they have
been conned, which apparently they have, given the mother didn't
report the sexual abuse.


That's what I am interested in. What are these ways?


Ask the children to make the call, for one. Look at their ages. They
could do it. Or use their statements to you to call. All you have to
report, and all you should, is what they say to you.

By the way, do you have some official knowledge the bio son

sexually
assaulted? That's a serious charge with serious consequences so if

you
report it report HOW you know this. .


I did. I even had a friend who is a social worker in another state

speak
to D before I called the police.


Sounds like you are on track.

Or again, you might sound like a vindictive neighbor who doesn't

like
their dog crapping in your yard.


That's actually funny. I'm the only one on the block who doesn't

complain
about their dog. What I failed to convey was that these people were

my
friends until Thursday. The children came over to my house for

snacks,
when they fought with their siblings or father, when they wanted help

with
their homework, when they wanted to watch tv and their power was off,

or
to show me things they'd made. The father and I talked daily. We

did
favors for each other. My friendship does not extend to covering up

sexual
assaults, though.


Oh, "the nosy neighbor that interfers in other families," eh?

0;-

You are on the right track. Don't be deterred. Whose safety is the
most important here? Let the experts sort out the facts as to what
happened. All you can report is what happened that YOU witnessed, what
was said to you. Well, if you wish to be believed.

Avoid the hyperbolic rantings style of some of our more lurid and
mindless posters in these ngs. Like accusing CPS of playing fast

and
loose when all you have is the appearance of that without
substantiation that that is there intent in this case. There may be
much they do not know...given the probablity related to your report
that a sexual assualt is being withheld from them.


It's not being withheld from them. After the police came, B's

probation
officer called me. Then D's case worker. Then E's probation

officer.
Then E's case worker. They removed C and D, remember? The child

welfare
agency, the private agency that supervises D's placement, and

juvenile
probation were all at the home Thursday night.

I think the child welfare agency was deliberately misled by Mr. A and

Ms.
F. I think they agreed to conditions they had no intention of

keeping. I
doubt that Ms. F mentioned her work schedule.

I blame the agency for not asking. I blame the agency for not asking

why
she didn't report the assault.


You don't know they haven't. Sex abuse cases, like other cases, tend
to shut down OUTFLOW of information, while inflow is collected. Makes
sense, no?

You can't preserve evidence, testamony or otherwise, very well if
everyone is blabbing to everyone else about the progress of the case.

In fact silence from CPS at this time would suggest something IS up
and your reporting has started the ball rolling.

And it sounds like more than one person is trying to avoid CPS
investigation.


I'm not sure what you mean.


The foster parents.

Of course, according to some here CPS wouldn't report if they did

find
a sexual or other kind of abuse going on, and they claim that

foster's
abuse children at a rate computed as 8 times more likley than the

bio
parent population.


Good lord. I guess that sort of thing goes on in any discussion

group, no
matter how benign the subject matter. There's a reason it makes

headlines
when a foster family abuses their foster children; it's rare.


Nothing quite like logic, is there now?

Yes it is rare, but so is abuse by bio family. Both get a lot of news
coverage, with the foster's being more exposed because they don't
enjoy the confidentiality that parents who are accused do. And they
are more often caught simply because of the relationship to CPS and
all the people that watch them...including the bio parents of the
children in their care, who have every reason to even make up things.

I want to make it clear that I think the foster father in this case

is
guilty of negligence, but not of any active abuse.


You sound concerned that some may happen though. He would be a party
to it if it rose to the level of a criminal charge....if what you
written here is accurate. He KNOWs the risks and allows it to happen.
The foster mother is in every deeper doodoo.

Don't expect huge amounts of rational support here, except for a

very
very few. Try any of the foster parents, though. They know what's

up
with such things.


That's what I was hoping for. I truly didn't expect any

anti-fostering
contingent.


They are much smaller than in the past, but all the more strident and
lyling, for all of that.

The only people I thought were opposed to foster families
were people who had their own children removed from their custody for

good
cause.


That creates a vacume for folks with poor thinking skills, weak egos,
and crackpot social agendas to use those families any old which way.
It's only a very small contingent here that support foster, and helps
those few families that are innocent of abuse and falsely accused, or
working hard to rehab.

It's mostly muddied up with BS claims about CPS and fosters, and the
rebuttals to such nonsense.

And make that call. A child perp on the loose is just as dangerous

as
an adult one.


That's what's keeping me up at night. Again, these are my neighbors,

as
are other children.


If there is a perp on the loose and agreed upon controls to reduce the
risk of reabuse then you are right to be concerned. Express your
concerns to CPS AGAIN.

One of the things who are calling CPS is that much of what they say
has to be measured by the possibility, as I mentioned, of someone
filing falsely... And not having sufficient information to make the
claim plausable for a action and investigation.

One of the things that helps is having the guts to keep calling.

I just need to know who to call to make sure the girls are really

safe.

No such person exists on this planet. All you can do is all you can
do, and that goes for CPS. Where they are constrained by the law and
judiciary they cannot give such an assurance of absolute safety.

I'm afraid if I call the agency and say they're allowing B to be in

the
same home with G I'll sound like the vindictive neighbor you

mentioned
above. I'm afraid if I don't, there will be further assaults.


So, just like never winning the lottery, you are considering not
playing because you might not win. Okay, but think that through.

Which would be the more serious outcome. That you were wrong and
nothing happens, or that you are right and something happens but you
haven't called?

You'll have to buy a lottery ticket if your protestions would make
sense to you. Report, then worry about how you sound.

You aren't required to absolute proof of anything. That is the job of
an investigator. If you saw the window of a neighborhod business open
at night with no lights on, would you not call the police on the
chance of someone being there that shouldn't be?

You do not have to KNOW that some one is in there to report conditions
that make it possible. And foster parents take on this risk the
instant they become certified, that they will someday be accused of
abuse themselves. If everyone is innocent at your neighbors it will
just be educational for them -- and a condition of service already
accepted by thousands of foster parents.

Susan


Kane
  #9  
Old September 7th 04, 04:33 AM
Kane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Fern5827) wrote in message ...

....a more perfect revelation to a poster, Susan, that you are one of
the prime nutso idiots on this ng than any attack on you that I could
post....

Susan, after you notice the absolute first words out of this flake's
key board, as being a personal attack by suggesting sexual orientation
or identity not evident in the poster's name at all, do a google on
the posting history of this Plant, The Fern.

If you don't know how, but are in google, simply open a post of It's
and click on the name portion of the "From" address block. And read
with a barf bag handy. This is someone that routinely exuses and
supports parents doing such things as having their church members
suspend children naked in the church and beat them with object, and
putting hot pepper in a child's mouth and calling it discipline.

A more viscious poster here I couldn't imagine. A child and family
hater that pretends to "reform" but is more calculated to destroy the
capacity of this society to control child abusers.

She Man and Cain apparently are aware of all the states in the US Policy and
Procedure Manuals on CPS. (NOT)


That IS why the advice to check the poster's state. I am not quoting
from any state policy manual. We KNOW you want the foster parent hurt
for YOUR purposes, or to get off and have the children hurt, again for
your purposes, and that is proven in your many posts attacking
children and foster parents. You don't care WHO is hurt as long as you
can dance in their blood to satisfy your belief you are a crusader.

However, CPS is being reformed through the efforts of just such folks as us.


It's being dismantled and crippled. This poster wishes CPS to be
defunded, and agency already established by research, even quoted by
It and others on the "destroy CPS" campaign, to be badly short funded
now. It and It's cronies constantly urge and direct people to sue CPS
and to even plot to do so.

It's very easy to sling mud.


Yep, and it's the major theme of your posting history.

Also very declasse.


And you have "class?" A child hater that justifies torture of children
and the parent's right to do it?

The content of their posts
is almost all


Not anywhere near enough. I give over to argument and source
quotations and citions a great deal of my posting space.

to discredit those who are involved in the efforts to restructure
CPS


Can't stand the exposure to your real agenda, the destruction of CPS
as a viable child protection institution?

The ages of the kids were such that they should not be SLEEPING IN THE SAME
BEDROOM.


That was already established by other posts, one from myself. You
repeating just indicates you are scrambling for credibility...that you
have strained for this poster, Susan.


You did not post your state, so we cannot refer you to others who have reported
foster abuses.


Nor should she on the off chance one of the sickos like you lives in
her state and starts calling to get her into trouble. Not unheard of
in this ng.

However, there is no doubt that CPS is a seriously flawed and deficient
institution.


All government institutions can likely be so accused, and in some
respects guilty. I invite Yew, Plant, to go and read the reports I
referenced from the DHHS source, that shows how CPS actually "failed"
only in part and most often by near misses, when YOU claim they
totally and compleately failed.

You are a much exposed liar.

And now you are honestly reporting it, Susan.


That IS the point. What you throw in for her to try to sort out is the
usual load of horse**** that would be better spread around our Roots.

Good luck.


Forget "Luck," Susan. Line your duckies in a row and go for it even if
you are afraid of making an enemy, bad luck indeed, out of your
neighbor...if it stops sexual assualt of a child.


These are complex issues, and CPS invokes confidentiality to hide their
mistakes.


And because it is the law, and you lie. No state may legally reveal
even the name of a child client publically. They can neither confirm
or deny.

As in FL, TX, and NJ recently made clear in national headlines.


Nope. Confidentiality is what it is, and nothing more.

The only other use of refusal to discuss a case is if it is in
litigation and the state is the defendent...and as far as I know, no
defendant is required to discuss their case before trial. Ask a
lawyer.

I doubt Susan has time to google your history, but it would be rather
telling, now wouldn't it, or do you think that everyone is as stupid
and gullible as you had to make yourself to become a "crusader" child
safety destroyer?

Kane
  #10  
Old September 7th 04, 03:33 PM
Ron
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"angryandsad" wrote in message
lkaboutsupport.com...
Kane wrote:
Angry and sad---wrote:


Subject: What if a foster parent is a bad parent?
From: "angryandsad"
Date: 9/5/2004 3:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

outsupport.com


[argument with someone else deleted - I didn't understand most of the
jargon in the first response, anyway.)
This person has two biological children and two foster children

living
with him. I've ignored a lot of lapses - drug use by the foster

parent
with the kids, lack of supervision, truancy being allowed if not
encouraged and more. I had to stop turning my head Thursday when

the
older foster child told me that the biological son had sexually

assaulted
a visiting child and the foster son had sexually assaulted the

biological
daughter. She said her foster father was aware of the assaults and

was
indifferent. I called the police after talking with her a while to

make
sure she was telling the truth.


If you focus on the issue of foster parents you immediately create a
conflicted atmosphere. While you can SAY it is a foster placement
where this is happening, focus on the interests of the child, and
report this as suspected abuse and or neglect.


I only posted here because I was looking for somewhere to ask for advice
and I took a chance. I sure didn't mean to insult any one who fosters;
you're better people than I am. I thought that people here would be
interested in helping the children.


Hi Angry. I am a foster parent and may be able to assist.

First, you must remember that all may not be as it seems. Having a foster
son removed in handcuffs is not common, but not really all that uncommon.
It happens. And yes, the rest of the family usually stays in the home.

And I am grateful for your advice.


It's basically a failure to supervise issue as far as "foster" issues
go, but it is a sex abuse case for the children involved. Keep your
facts sorted out, report only what you observe, not what you
speculate. It's much more powerful in the investigation phase, and
even more if it goes to criminal trial.


I called the police, as I mentioned, not the local child welfare agency
because it was the sexual assault that immediately concerned me. As I
said, I had ignored many things, all of which I witnessed, regarding the
lack of parenting by the foster father. I assumed the kids were someplace
where someone cared about them and thus better off, if nothing else.


The police are the best place to start. If criminal activity is taking
place in the home then calling CPS is not really going to do a great deal of
good. Besides, the police know who to call if there is an issue with a
fosterchild. I'd let them do it.

I was very careful only to tell the police and the others who followed up
only about the sexual assaults. I mentioned nothing else. It was only
after I realized that the foster father and new foster mother were
ignoring the new guidelines and that the children were still at risk that
I posted here. (I've been asking everyone I know for advice, too, I just
hoped for some from someone with actual experience with the system.)


Hmmm, if there were sexual assults taking place then someone should have
gone to jail. Here is where "all may not be as it seems" is most likely to
crop its ugly head. And as far as "ignoring the new guidelines" is
concerned, well unless you are a foster parent yourself, or have detailed
knowledge of foster parenting, you are guessing as to what those guidelines
are. Dont make the mistake that fern makes all the time, assuming that you
know more than you actually do.

If you have concerns, call the cops. Thats what they get paid for. They
are the professionals, let them do their job and trust them to do it.


Same for the civil aspects, likely to impact the foster parents. They
will most likely lose their certification right off, and their own
children will also likely to be removed during the investigation for
their safety, and preservations of evidence.


That's what I was talking about - they removed both the foster and
biological daughters, but they're back in the home as much as they were
before the police and child welfare agency representatives came out on
Thursday.


Could be, the state does not have the right to prevent visitations if they
are court ordered.

I'm not sure how the father was certified in the first place. The
guidelines for my state were clearly not followed. I suspect that an


Really? How so? Are you making another assumption here? Do you know what
the guidelines are, or are you assuming that these are the guidelines you
would "think" should be and therefore are not being followed? Again, if you
are not a foster parent yourself, or have detailed knowledge of foster
parenting, you are guessing as to what those guidelines are.


exception was made for the first foster child, the daughter, because no
one else would take her on. The foster son's placement is more confusing.


I cant say that I have not heard of this happening, but that exception is
short term at best. Dad must meet all the requirements of regular fostering
within a specific period of time or the child will be moved.

He had twice in the last month been arrested at the foster father's home
for running away from a juvenile detention center. After the second
arrest, the foster father became his foster father rather than being
charged for harboring a fugitive. Again, the exception may have been made
to try to save the boy.


Give the man a cigar. This IS the way it sometimes happens. What sense
would it make to send the kid back just so that he can run again, if the
father is willing to work with him and with the system.


Some here will try to con you and tell you they are being forcefully
taken into custody, as though that is a BAD thing, when it's in fact
the only thing that IS safe children in such a situation.


I would agree, if the girls were safer.


They may be. It sounds like you are making quite a few assumptions here.
Examine your motives, your knowledge of the system and its requirements, and
consult with someone that has firsthand knowledge. You may find that you
are more than just wrong.

One reason I turned a blind eye to some of the less savory aspects of the
homelife there is that it was so immensely better for the kids there than
in their original homes. Both of the foster children had mothers who were
addicts and absent fathers. Both of them have been scarred by their
experience and both have a lot of problems. This is the first time in my
life I have felt any pity for a sexual predator.


This tells me that you knew these kids while they lived in their family
homes. Or did you? Sure sounds like it.

No foster placement is perfect. None. The objective is to find a safer
place for these kids, a place that meets specific minimum's.

The local child welfare agency removed the foster son from the home

in
handcuffs. The biological son was allowed to stay in the home, and

the
two girls were placed in the home of the foster father's girlfriend.

(The
foster father's girlfriend is the mother of the other victim.) The

two
girls told me they were staying there for a few months, but were

allowed
to come home if the son was not there.


Since none of this has gone to court, don't make assumptions. The bio
son may well be charged if this is reported properly, as it should be.
He is, if allegations are true, a dangerous offender. The parent's may
or may not be complicite, but they surely are, if the boy sexually
assualted othersm they knew it, they are, if the statutes and policy
cover it, in some deep fertilizer on a number of counts.


I don't know the details of the follow up. The foster father is not
speaking to me, so my information comes from the girls. I have not asked
them any questions - this is what they have volunteered. That they're
still visiting me tells me that they're glad I reported it.


Ahhhh. So, you are assuming that they are telling the truth, but a few
paragraphs back you said that they have quite a few problems. Could lying
be one of them?

Here's my problem, and I hope someone can help me. The girlfriend

did not
report the assault to any authority when her daughter told her about

it.

THAT is the problem. People do NOT report when they should, and in
this ng that is ENCOURAGED by asking for measures that frighten people
away from reporting.


I'm not sure why she didn't report it, other than the fact that the boy
who assaulted her daughter is her boyfriend's son and like a son to her.
I can't understand that reasoning, nor can I understand why she didn't
take her daughter to the hospital.


You are assuming that the assult actually took place. As a male foster
parent I can tell you for a fact that we are the first people accused of
sexual misconduct in homes where there are females.

I really can't understand why this lapse was rewarded with the gift of two
more girls.


Could be an error by the system, could also be more to the story than you
are privy to.

She works nights, so three girls, aged 16, 14, and 12 are alone five
nights a week. The younger two are the victims. The father, who

was
furious with me for reporting the abuse, tried to get the firls to

recant.

This is getting a bit complex. The father is not the boyfriend, I take
it, the foster parent?


No, he is. There's only two adults involved here. Mr. A., my neighbor,
is the biolgical father of B, a boy, and C, a girl. He is the foster
father of D, a girl, and E, a boy. Ms. F, his girlfriend, is the mother
of G, a girl. The allegation is that B assaulted G and E assaulted C.


Complicated is right. So, let me get this right, the boys are assulting the
girls. All the girls are foster children?

I watched the son and daughter leave together last night at 11 pm

when I
was coming home. Clearly, both adults are ignoring the

restrictions.

We have a foster parent dad, and a foster parent mother, and a foster
parent dad's girlfriend. Do I have this correct?


Which adults are you referring to? and Which son and daughter? The
perp and the victim?


I hope I cleared it up. It is ridiculously complicated.

C says she is not allowed at her dad's house if B is home.


Says whom? The state or the child? Or is it the child saying that this is
what the state is saying? Hmmm, interesting.

This is being
ignored. I would think that B is not officially allowed to go to Ms. F's
house, since his victim lives there. C told me today that she and B were
together last night because her dad told B to walk her home. She said G
ran and hid when B came in. I didn't know what to tell the child. She
was upset because G was so frightened, but she is only 12 and can't be
expected to walk around at night alone. I guess her dad couldn't bring
himself to do the escorting. I don't know why Ms. F allowed him to come
in - she could have sent him home.


Sounds like there is still more to this story than you have knowledge of.

The local child welfare agency seems to be playing fast and loose

with the
rules as well.


Could be, and could not be.


I'm going by the guidelines they publish and my personal knowledge of the
situation right up until I called the police.


Ahhh, published guidelines for "general" use. Courts often ignore these,
because they can, and because each case is different. Adjustments are made
because this is what works best for each individual case. Courts are not
bound by CPS guidelines, which is one of the areas that fern and company
fail to understand.

The family lives in a three bedroom house. The father has
one bedroom, the biological son has one, and the two girls and the

foster
son shared the third bedroom. The other victim slept there five

nights a
week before the assaults - who knows where they put her. The family

does
not have sufficient income to care for all these children.

Utilities have
been shut off and the children are often hungry.


No. Foster parents routinely with this many kids are on easy street
and shopping for a yacht...according to the yahoos on this ng.


I'm a bit more curious about how you know the details of the family's
financial status. From the children? A childs understanding of their
families financial status is nearly always wrong, so you might want to take
that with a grain of salt.

As I said, I complained about none of this because I thought the children
were loved. One reason I feel so guilty here is that I wrote a letter of
recommendation for Mr. A when he was trying to gain custody of D. The
guideline say that foster parents must have sufficient income to support
their own family. The only income the family had last winter was the
stipend for D. Mr. A is seasonally employed. I was actually happy for
them - D got a home and A, B and C got to eat.


Seasonal employee's usually know ththat they are seasonal, and have either a
good savings plan or alternate sources of income for those times when they
are unable to work their normal job.

These people are my neighbors. The only reason we have more money than
they do is that we are both employed indoors and thus year-round, and we
don't have children. I am not criticizing their poverty.


But they may not be impoverished. They may simply be better at managing
money than you.

Are you sure these are children placed by the state, or a gathering of
children from friends and family?


I'm not sure of the distinction. Mr. A did not sign up to be a foster
parent for any child; he was approved for D when she ran away from her
last placement. D is Ms. F's biological grand-niece. Mr. A has known her
all of her life. Ms. F was not willing to take her in at the time.
I explained how he gained custody of E above. So, the state placed them
there, but Mr. A began the process.


Can anyone give me advice? I don't want any of these kids to suffer

any
more.


The advice is simple. Follow the law. Report this, but get the people
and relationships sorted out and report only what you KNOW, not what
you speculate. "Speculation" very quickly can morph into sounding like
a false allegation call to those that staff the child abuse hotlines.


A good and sound bit of advice. False allegations against anyone is a major
pain, so make sure that you know, without a doubt, what is happening over
there. Not just what you have been told by the kids (as seems is
happening).

I did a better job explaing the relationships to the authorities than I
did here. The child welfare agency was familiar with the names and
relationships. I only reported what D told me she heard from C and G
directly. I did not mention the rumor she said was circulating that both
boys had been involved in a gang rape, and I sure didn't mention drugs or
anything peripheral like that.

I also reported that Mr. A had responded to the news that I had called the
police by telling me that he would see to it that the girls changed their
stories. He said that telling the truth, and I am quoting him here, would
break up his family. I liked the guy right up until I realized he would
sacrifice the girls for the boys.


If you hang round this news group long enough, you will note that the truth
is a matter of perspective and a very pliable thing. I'd say to let the
professionals deal with things.

Let the experts make the calls on what took place or is most likely to
have.
If they already know about this family and the those things you say
they do, as the foster boy being arrested, and you don't think CPS
will respond, you need to call 911 and ask for police dispatch,
non-emergency in most areas, and ask to report a suspected sexual
abuse.


I don't think further assaults have taken place. I worry about what will
happen the first night Ms. G has to go to work.

There is more than one way to get CPS to take notice when they have
been conned, which apparently they have, given the mother didn't
report the sexual abuse.


That's what I am interested in. What are these ways?

By the way, do you have some official knowledge the bio son sexually
assaulted? That's a serious charge with serious consequences so if you
report it report HOW you know this. .


I did. I even had a friend who is a social worker in another state speak
to D before I called the police.


This speaks to the intelligence of your friend from another state. A smart
worker would never have done this, not in an unofficial manner.

Or again, you might sound like a vindictive neighbor who doesn't like
their dog crapping in your yard.


That's actually funny. I'm the only one on the block who doesn't complain
about their dog. What I failed to convey was that these people were my
friends until Thursday. The children came over to my house for snacks,
when they fought with their siblings or father, when they wanted help with
their homework, when they wanted to watch tv and their power was off, or
to show me things they'd made. The father and I talked daily. We did
favors for each other. My friendship does not extend to covering up sexual
assaults, though.


Avoid the hyperbolic rantings style of some of our more lurid and
mindless posters in these ngs. Like accusing CPS of playing fast and
loose when all you have is the appearance of that without
substantiation that that is there intent in this case. There may be
much they do not know...given the probablity related to your report
that a sexual assualt is being withheld from them.


It's not being withheld from them. After the police came, B's probation
officer called me. Then D's case worker. Then E's probation officer.
Then E's case worker. They removed C and D, remember? The child welfare
agency, the private agency that supervises D's placement, and juvenile
probation were all at the home Thursday night.

I think the child welfare agency was deliberately misled by Mr. A and Ms.
F. I think they agreed to conditions they had no intention of keeping. I
doubt that Ms. F mentioned her work schedule.


"agreed to conditions they had no intention of keeping", not an uncommon
thing, but usually seen in bio parents of kids in the system.

I blame the agency for not asking. I blame the agency for not asking why
she didn't report the assault.


You blame the agency for not asking about something they may have known
nothing about? Or maybe they did ask, but recieved an answer that made them
think that there was not really a problem here.

And it sounds like more than one person is trying to avoid CPS
investigation.


I'm not sure what you mean.


He means both A and F, and possibly some of the other principals involved
such as the kids.

Of course, according to some here CPS wouldn't report if they did find
a sexual or other kind of abuse going on, and they claim that foster's
abuse children at a rate computed as 8 times more likley than the bio
parent population.


Good lord. I guess that sort of thing goes on in any discussion group, no
matter how benign the subject matter. There's a reason it makes headlines
when a foster family abuses their foster children; it's rare.


Far more rare than those here will tell you. The facts and figures are
available online.

I want to make it clear that I think the foster father in this case is
guilty of negligence, but not of any active abuse.

Don't expect huge amounts of rational support here, except for a very
very few. Try any of the foster parents, though. They know what's up
with such things.


That's what I was hoping for. I truly didn't expect any anti-fostering
contingent. The only people I thought were opposed to foster families
were people who had their own children removed from their custody for good
cause.


There is a significant "anti-fostering contingent" here. Their motives are
bizzare and difficult to understand without a great deal of reading.
Usually it involves a great deal of "spin" and emotional clap-trap, with
little reference to the facts.

And make that call. A child perp on the loose is just as dangerous as
an adult one.


That's what's keeping me up at night. Again, these are my neighbors, as
are other children.

I just need to know who to call to make sure the girls are really safe.


You cant really be "sure", but you do what you can. If there is a crime
being committed then call the cops. Offer support to the kids, but remember
that even a 12 year old can come up with some pretty interesting untruths,
specially with a few older siblings assisting.

I'm afraid if I call the agency and say they're allowing B to be in the
same home with G I'll sound like the vindictive neighbor you mentioned
above. I'm afraid if I don't, there will be further assaults.


If there is a court order stating that B cannot be in the home with G, then
a police report showing his presence in the home is going to be pretty hard
for CPS to ignore.

Good luck, and remember that what you think you know about this case is most
likely far less than reality.

Ron



Susan

Kane




 




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