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Who has the ultimate right to choose?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 4th 07, 06:34 PM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"CafeWriter" wrote in message
news:kPFQh.23507$6m4.4978@pd7urf1no...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"elizabeth" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 2, 11:39 am, "Chris" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Mar 29, 1:41 pm, "Chris" wrote:
Does the right to choose whether or not to give birth rest SOLELY

with
the
woman?

Since she's the SOLE person who is pregnant, you bet your ass.

Then she alone bears the SOLE responsibility for such choice and any
resulting consequences, right?

Nope.


Are pregnant women the ONLY ones who are allowed to escape

responsibility
for their choices or do you and I and others get to escape

responsibility
for our choices too?


BOTH parents are supposed to support the child.

Too bad men feel that's optional . .. if I were in charge, in such
cases, I would make the woman get a job and make the man do all the
actual childcare, with no vacations, under the supervision of parents
who know how to raise children properly .. . if men knew they'd be
FORCED TO DO THE WORK, they'd line up for vasectomies, and never miss
a child support payment.

so if you are one of those asshole deadbeats, get snipped, or maybe we
should do it old school, with an axe.




I've had enough. For all the men who got women pregnant and decided to
become deadbeat fathers,


Men don't decide to become fathers; women make that decision; unless, of
course, your definition of fatherhood begins at conception.

you are not worth it.

Shame on you. That's why if a father does not pay child support or help

the
mother out, then he is not truly a father that his child would know but
rather a man who doesn't love his child.


Not paying cash to a child's mother says NOTHING about not loving said
child.


Now geez that's probably part of the reason why some women chose

abortions;
they already knew that the men that got them pregnant wouldn't help them
out.


Did you purposely decide to not answer my above question, or did you simply
overlook it?





  #2  
Old April 9th 07, 03:16 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
elizabeth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?

On Apr 4, 10:34 am, "Chris" wrote:
"CafeWriter" wrote in message

snip

I've had enough. For all the men who got women pregnant and decided to
become deadbeat fathers,


Men don't decide to become fathers; women make that decision; unless, of
course, your definition of fatherhood begins at conception.


Men are free to get vasectomies before sex, they are free to use
condoms. Women can't get vasectomies nor decide to use condoms,
that's the man's choice. So you don't have as many choices as women,
too bad. If women had a method as cheap, safe, and effective as
vasectomy, that could be as easily reversed, if they could store ova
just by having an orgasm the way men can store sperm . .. well, there
wouldn't be many abortions at all.

But because most men feel entitled to sexual access, and feel that
it's not their problem if the woman gets pregnant, abortion will be
needed, far more often than it should.

you are not worth it.


Shame on you. That's why if a father does not pay child support or help

the
mother out, then he is not truly a father that his child would know but
rather a man who doesn't love his child.


Not paying cash to a child's mother says NOTHING about not loving said
child.


Bull****. Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort
of heartless asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.

In fact, that's very sociopathic, not caring about your own
offspring. Maybe you realize your mother made the wrong choice on
abortion, and thus, don't want your offspring to have a chance?

Now geez that's probably part of the reason why some women chose

abortions;
they already knew that the men that got them pregnant wouldn't help them
out.


Did you purposely decide to not answer my above question, or did you simply
overlook it?


So what's your beef, mad about paying child support?
Well, why not get custody and make her pay you?

  #3  
Old April 9th 07, 03:21 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Gini
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"elizabeth" wrote
..................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort
of heartless asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.

==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.


  #4  
Old April 9th 07, 03:29 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
elizabeth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?

On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of heartless asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.


==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.


As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.
And since vasectomies are a couple of orders of magnitude CHEAPER than
tubals, and since vasectomies are at least an order of magnitude MORE
EFFECTIVE THAN TUBALS, it's far more cost effective to snip the men,
especially when you factor in the cost of medical complications of
tubals . . . tubals do kill women, but no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.

  #5  
Old April 9th 07, 03:37 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Gini
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"elizabeth" wrote
On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of heartless
asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.


==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.


As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.

==
G So, how is it that a man would impregnate a sterilized woman?
==
...........................
no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.

==
And you know this how? Come to think of it, I don't know any women who have
died from a tubal.
Heh, perhaps I'm running with a different crowd.
==
==


  #6  
Old April 9th 07, 03:43 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
elizabeth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?

On Apr 8, 7:37 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of heartless
asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.


==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.


As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.


==
G So, how is it that a man would impregnate a sterilized woman?
==
.......................... no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.


==
And you know this how? Come to think of it, I don't know any women who have
died from a tubal.
Heh, perhaps I'm running with a different crowd.


So you don't know any women who died from tubals?
Not exactly a good sample, dearie.

I know this because I know how to do research on a given topic.
Try going to google, and enter "tubal ligation morbidity mortality"
and you will get the actual data.

If you are so stupid you can't even Google, you need to be castrated,
for the good of the gene pool.

this isn't an official medical source, but it should be dumbed down
enough for you to understand.
http://www.answers.com/topic/tubal-ligation
Risks

While major complications are uncommon after tubal ligation, there are
risks with any surgical procedure. Possible side effects include
infection and bleeding. After laparoscopy, the patient may experience
pain in the shoulder area from the carbon dioxide used during surgery,
but the technique is associated with less pain than mini-laparotomy,
as well as a faster recovery period. Mini-laparotomy results in a
higher incidence of pain, bleeding, bladder injury, and infection
compared with laparoscopy. Patients normally feel better after three
to four days of rest, and are able to resume sexual activity at that
time.

The possibility for treatment failure is very low-fewer than one in
200 women (0.4%) will become pregnant during the first year after
sterilization. Failure can happen if the cut ends of the tubes grow
back together; if the tube was not completely cut or blocked off; if a
plastic clip or rubber band has loosened or come off; or if the woman
was already pregnant at the time of surgery.

Normal Results

After having her tubes tied, a woman does not need to use any form of
birth control to avoid pregnancy. Tubal ligation is almost 100%
effective for the prevention of conception.

Morbidity and Mortality Rates

About 1-4% of patients experience complications following tubal
ligation. There is a low risk (less than 1%, or seven per 1,000
procedures) of a later ectopic pregnancy. Ectopic pregnancy is a
condition in which the fertilized egg implants in a place other than
the uterus, usually in one of the fallopian tubes. Ectopic pregnancies
are more likely to happen in younger women, and in women whose tubes
were closed off by electrocoagulation.

Rarely, death may occur as a complication of general anesthesia if a
major blood vessel is cut. The mortality rate of tubal ligation is
about four in 100,000 sterilizations.

Alternatives

There are numerous options available to women who wish to prevent
pregnancy. Oral contraceptives are the second most common form of
contraception-the first being female sterilization-and have a success
rate of 95-99.5%. Other methods of preventing pregnancy include
vasectomy (99.9% effective) for the male partner; the male condom (86-
97% effective); the diaphragm or cervical cap (80-94% effective); the
female condom (80-95% effective); and abstinence.

See also Vasectomy.




  #7  
Old April 9th 07, 03:47 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
elizabeth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?

On Apr 8, 7:37 pm, "Gini" wrote:

And you know this how? Come to think of it, I don't know any women who have
died from a tubal.
Heh, perhaps I'm running with a different crowd.


OK, we're using Gina Knows Proof. The only cases that matter are the
women Gina Knows.

I know of women who have died and have had very, very serious
complications from pills and IUDs. I saw a woman dying from septic
shock caused by her in the arm hormone implants.

therefore, all women are harmed, since my sample says so.

This is why it's best to do some research, GiniWini.



  #8  
Old April 9th 07, 03:49 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
elizabeth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?

On Apr 8, 7:37 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of heartless
asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.


==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.


As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.


==
G So, how is it that a man would impregnate a sterilized woman?
==
.......................... no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.


==
And you know this how? Come to think of it, I don't know any women who have
died from a tubal.
Heh, perhaps I'm running with a different crowd.


And more research . . ..
Intraoperative complications such as:

Unintended, unplanned major surgery or laparotomy due to a problem
during the tubal ligation procedure, This complication occurs at a
rate of approximately 0.9 per 100 tubal ligation procedures.

Blood transfusions

A life-threatening event

Death

Postoperative complications include those that occur intraoperatively,
as well as:

Febrile morbidity

Rehospitalization

Death caused by a complication that occurs up to 42 days of your tubal
ligation surgery.

  #9  
Old April 9th 07, 04:24 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Gini
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"elizabeth" wrote
On Apr 8, 7:37 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of
heartless
asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of
society
must support.


==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.


As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.


==
G So, how is it that a man would impregnate a sterilized woman?
==
.......................... no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.


==
And you know this how? Come to think of it, I don't know any women who
have
died from a tubal.
Heh, perhaps I'm running with a different crowd.


So you don't know any women who died from tubals?
Not exactly a good sample, dearie.

==
So, how many women do you know who died from a tubal?
==

I know this because I know how to do research on a given topic.

==
gThat's pretty damn impressive for someone who thinks a man
can impregnate a sterile woman.
==
==



  #10  
Old April 9th 07, 04:35 AM posted to talk.abortion,alt.child-support
Gini
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default Who has the ultimate right to choose?


"elizabeth" wrote
On Apr 8, 7:37 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of
heartless
asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of
society
must support.


==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.


As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.


==
G So, how is it that a man would impregnate a sterilized woman?
==
.......................... no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.


==
And you know this how? Come to think of it, I don't know any women who
have
died from a tubal.
Heh, perhaps I'm running with a different crowd.


And more research . . ..
Intraoperative complications such as:

Unintended, unplanned major surgery or laparotomy due to a problem
during the tubal ligation procedure, This complication occurs at a
rate of approximately 0.9 per 100 tubal ligation procedures.

Blood transfusions

A life-threatening event

Death

Postoperative complications include those that occur intraoperatively,
as well as:

Febrile morbidity

Rehospitalization

Death caused by a complication that occurs up to 42 days of your tubal
ligation surgery.

==
You weren't paying attention, hon. Complications (which are extremely
rare)
do not equal *death from a tubal.* Nice try, though. You are quite
entertaining
tonight. Now, about the man who impregnates a sterile woman....?




 




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