Crying it out

We finally broke with Sears and let dd cry it out last Friday. She was
waking every hour to 1.5 hours and none of us were getting enough sleep. It
worked. However, now I have a few questions that Ferber doesn't answer.

1. How do I know if she's actually hungry when she wakes or if she's just
awake and can't fall back asleep? (Last night she was fed at 11:30, which is
a bit earlier than usual, and then woke again at 1 a.m. I let her cry --
actually it was more like complaining noises -- until 3 a.m., which is her
usual feeding time -- and then fed her. This felt strange because, although
I know she wasn't hungry at 1, she certainly was at 3 and it seemed silly to
make her be awake all that time. OTOH, I don't want her awaking every two
hours when I know she can go the entire night with only one feeding.)

2. How am I supposed to handle night wakings generally?
3. Will it confuse her if I still rock her to sleep for naps if I just put
her in her crib for night sleeping?

I have to say that we're all (even dd) much happier now that she's sleeping
more at night, but Ferber seems to think that dd won't need to be fed at
night and I know that she really needs that one feeding. She's nearly seven
months old, but she's shown no interest in solids yet (we tried and gave
up).

I've been feeling like any of the choices are 'bad mother' choices since
crying it out seems cruel, but she gets more sleep. Letting her wake up as
often as she wants also seems cruel since she's miserable the next day from
lack of sleep.

Any advice? (BTW, co-sleeping is not an option for us as DH and I don't get
any sleep when she's in our bed.)

--
Melissa (in Los Angeles)
Mum to Elizabeth 4/13/03

It sounds like you answered yourself - her usual feeding time is 3 am. So,
if she wakes at her usual feeding time, feed her. If she wakes before then,
use the standard pat, comfort, but do not pick up.

We did this when DS was 13 months old. I used the Ferber method for night
times, and used the rock to sleep for naps. It didn't seem to confuse DS at
all. He went from waking every 1.5 hours to waking once or twice a night,
which was a huge relief all around.

Your mileage may vary.

-Shannon


"Melissa" wrote in message
news:ikvqb.130149$Tr4.335863@attbi_s03...
We finally broke with Sears and let dd cry it out last Friday. She was
waking every hour to 1.5 hours and none of us were getting enough sleep.
It
worked. However, now I have a few questions that Ferber doesn't answer.

1. How do I know if she's actually hungry when she wakes or if she's just
awake and can't fall back asleep? (Last night she was fed at 11:30, which
is
a bit earlier than usual, and then woke again at 1 a.m. I let her cry --
actually it was more like complaining noises -- until 3 a.m., which is her
usual feeding time -- and then fed her. This felt strange because,
although
I know she wasn't hungry at 1, she certainly was at 3 and it seemed silly
to
make her be awake all that time. OTOH, I don't want her awaking every two
hours when I know she can go the entire night with only one feeding.)

2. How am I supposed to handle night wakings generally?
3. Will it confuse her if I still rock her to sleep for naps if I just put
her in her crib for night sleeping?

I have to say that we're all (even dd) much happier now that she's
sleeping
more at night, but Ferber seems to think that dd won't need to be fed at
night and I know that she really needs that one feeding. She's nearly
seven
months old, but she's shown no interest in solids yet (we tried and gave
up).

I've been feeling like any of the choices are 'bad mother' choices since
crying it out seems cruel, but she gets more sleep. Letting her wake up as
often as she wants also seems cruel since she's miserable the next day
from
lack of sleep.

Any advice? (BTW, co-sleeping is not an option for us as DH and I don't
get
any sleep when she's in our bed.)

--
Melissa (in Los Angeles)
Mum to Elizabeth 4/13/03

"Melissa" wrote in message
news:ikvqb.130149$Tr4.335863@attbi_s03...
We finally broke with Sears and let dd cry it out last Friday. She was
waking every hour to 1.5 hours and none of us were getting enough sleep.
It
worked. However, now I have a few questions that Ferber doesn't answer.

1. How do I know if she's actually hungry when she wakes or if she's just
awake and can't fall back asleep? (Last night she was fed at 11:30, which
is
a bit earlier than usual, and then woke again at 1 a.m. I let her cry --
actually it was more like complaining noises -- until 3 a.m., which is her
usual feeding time -- and then fed her. This felt strange because,
although
I know she wasn't hungry at 1, she certainly was at 3 and it seemed silly
to
make her be awake all that time. OTOH, I don't want her awaking every two
hours when I know she can go the entire night with only one feeding.)



How old is she?

Personally, I always assumed my child was hungry. If, over time, I could
discern that he (my son) was definitely not hungry, I would do something
about it. But if the issue is acquiring a new sleep association, then I when
DS woke up, I would feed him and ensure he went BACK to bed on his own. Over
time, the night wakings lessened on their own.

2. How am I supposed to handle night wakings generally?

At about the age of 5 mo, I would feed him and put him back in bed. No muss
no fuss. If he cried, we Ferbered. But I always assured that he was not
hungry.


3. Will it confuse her if I still rock her to sleep for naps if I just put
her in her crib for night sleeping?


I do not know. How many kids do you have? If it were me (and it was) I would
be consistent for both. Now, that said, the routine for nap and bed are
quite important. There is no reason that pleasant rocking cannot be part of
the routine, as long as baby goes into bed somewhat awake.


I have to say that we're all (even dd) much happier now that she's
sleeping
more at night, but Ferber seems to think that dd won't need to be fed at
night and I know that she really needs that one feeding. She's nearly
seven
months old, but she's shown no interest in solids yet (we tried and gave
up).

I've been feeling like any of the choices are 'bad mother' choices since
crying it out seems cruel, but she gets more sleep. Letting her wake up as
often as she wants also seems cruel since she's miserable the next day
from
lack of sleep.

Any advice? (BTW, co-sleeping is not an option for us as DH and I don't
get
any sleep when she's in our bed.)



I beleive that sleep in necessary for learning and whatnot. I think that if
a baby needs sleep, this *can* be the right solution for some families. I
beleive that it is NOT cruel anymore than requiring your 7 month old to sit
in a car seat for trips. No matter how she cries, you do not allow her to
ride in your arms in the front seat. This is no different. You are getting
what she needs, and are less concerned with what she wants. You are trying
to make it as pleasant and understandable as possible by creating a pleasant
nighttime routine (so I presume if you read the book. If not, very good
idea.)


Co-sleeping is not an option for us either. I got kind of sick of hearing
from folks who claim I am a cretin for allowing my child to cry. EVEYONE,
especially DS, was much happier after we all started getting sleep. He had
much more fun playing during the day.

That's my opinion.

--
Melissa (in Los Angeles)
Mum to Elizabeth 4/13/03

There is no reason that pleasant rocking cannot be part of
the routine, as long as baby goes into bed somewhat awake.

Bwahahahahahaha.

I take it you never had a child who, if put into bed still awake, would only
become progressively MORE awake and MORE upset.

I can't help the OP much, since co-sleeping works well for us and DS never
developed a habit of waking frequently at night; I nursed him back to sleep
when he did wake until he just naturally began to go back to sleep without.
(In fact, one night not too long ago, he did ask and I -- really, really tired
at the time -- told him "the mama milk is sleeping." Much to my surprise, he
turned over and went to sleep without protest.) I'm just awfully tired of
hearing Ferber prononents claim that ALL babies can or should learn to go to
sleep by themselves, having been put to bed "drowsy but awake." That simply
DOES NOT WORK for some babies.

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

"HollyLewis" wrote in message
...
turned over and went to sleep without protest.) I'm just awfully tired of
hearing Ferber prononents claim that ALL babies can or should learn to go
to
sleep by themselves, having been put to bed "drowsy but awake." That
simply
DOES NOT WORK for some babies.

Yup.

Ferber himself will tell you that his method does not work for all babies.
As with just about everything in parenthood, different methods work with
different kids. :-) And things that don't bother some parents are
intolerable to others (like frequent night waking).

-Shannon

I respect your decision Melissa, but just because you choose to Feber, it
doesn't mean that AP isn't any less effect a parenting style. My DD is 16
months old, and co-sleeps (that is where we all sleep best). Up until 6
mos, she slept the majority of the night (6-7 hour stretch), but after that
she began waking up for feeding 1-2x a night, which she still does. I don't
believe that I should make her cry it out. I am there for he all through
the day, parenting doesn't end there. I believe that if she is to have a
good association with sleep, she needs to feel safe, secure and listened to.
(It isn't comparable to strapping her in a car seat - that is life or death,
sleeping on their own isn't)
I had a very hard time sleeping on my own, and the more that my parent tried
to force me to sleep alone, the worse it got. I was scared of the dark, and
scared of being alone....once they realized this and allowed me to move at
my own pace, it worked out fine. I know that dd sleeping with us is not a
forever thing, soon she will want her own bed, and will like more privacy,
but there is no need to force it.....that is my opinion, and if you choose
to Ferberize, that is your choice and I don't agree with it, but I will not
say that you are a bad parent for doing it....



--
Michelle P
Ava Marie July 14, 2002
"Stephanie and Tim" wrote in message
...

"Melissa" wrote in message
news:ikvqb.130149$Tr4.335863@attbi_s03...
We finally broke with Sears and let dd cry it out last Friday. She was
waking every hour to 1.5 hours and none of us were getting enough sleep.
It
worked. However, now I have a few questions that Ferber doesn't answer.

1. How do I know if she's actually hungry when she wakes or if she's
just
awake and can't fall back asleep? (Last night she was fed at 11:30,
which
is
a bit earlier than usual, and then woke again at 1 a.m. I let her cry --
actually it was more like complaining noises -- until 3 a.m., which is
her
usual feeding time -- and then fed her. This felt strange because,
although
I know she wasn't hungry at 1, she certainly was at 3 and it seemed
silly
to
make her be awake all that time. OTOH, I don't want her awaking every
two
hours when I know she can go the entire night with only one feeding.)



How old is she?

Personally, I always assumed my child was hungry. If, over time, I could
discern that he (my son) was definitely not hungry, I would do something
about it. But if the issue is acquiring a new sleep association, then I
when
DS woke up, I would feed him and ensure he went BACK to bed on his own.
Over
time, the night wakings lessened on their own.

2. How am I supposed to handle night wakings generally?

At about the age of 5 mo, I would feed him and put him back in bed. No
muss
no fuss. If he cried, we Ferbered. But I always assured that he was not
hungry.


3. Will it confuse her if I still rock her to sleep for naps if I just
put
her in her crib for night sleeping?


I do not know. How many kids do you have? If it were me (and it was) I
would
be consistent for both. Now, that said, the routine for nap and bed are
quite important. There is no reason that pleasant rocking cannot be part
of
the routine, as long as baby goes into bed somewhat awake.


I have to say that we're all (even dd) much happier now that she's
sleeping
more at night, but Ferber seems to think that dd won't need to be fed at
night and I know that she really needs that one feeding. She's nearly
seven
months old, but she's shown no interest in solids yet (we tried and gave
up).

I've been feeling like any of the choices are 'bad mother' choices since
crying it out seems cruel, but she gets more sleep. Letting her wake up
as
often as she wants also seems cruel since she's miserable the next day
from
lack of sleep.

Any advice? (BTW, co-sleeping is not an option for us as DH and I don't
get
any sleep when she's in our bed.)



I beleive that sleep in necessary for learning and whatnot. I think that
if
a baby needs sleep, this *can* be the right solution for some families. I
beleive that it is NOT cruel anymore than requiring your 7 month old to
sit
in a car seat for trips. No matter how she cries, you do not allow her to
ride in your arms in the front seat. This is no different. You are getting
what she needs, and are less concerned with what she wants. You are trying
to make it as pleasant and understandable as possible by creating a
pleasant
nighttime routine (so I presume if you read the book. If not, very good
idea.)


Co-sleeping is not an option for us either. I got kind of sick of hearing
from folks who claim I am a cretin for allowing my child to cry. EVEYONE,
especially DS, was much happier after we all started getting sleep. He had
much more fun playing during the day.

That's my opinion.

--
Melissa (in Los Angeles)
Mum to Elizabeth 4/13/03

"Melissa" wrote in message
news:ikvqb.130149$Tr4.335863@attbi_s03...
We finally broke with Sears and let dd cry it out last Friday. She was
waking every hour to 1.5 hours and none of us were getting enough sleep.
It
worked. However, now I have a few questions that Ferber doesn't answer.

1. How do I know if she's actually hungry when she wakes or if she's just
awake and can't fall back asleep? (Last night she was fed at 11:30, which
is
a bit earlier than usual, and then woke again at 1 a.m. I let her cry --
actually it was more like complaining noises -- until 3 a.m., which is her
usual feeding time -- and then fed her. This felt strange because,
although
I know she wasn't hungry at 1, she certainly was at 3 and it seemed silly
to
make her be awake all that time. OTOH, I don't want her awaking every two
hours when I know she can go the entire night with only one feeding.)

2. How am I supposed to handle night wakings generally?
3. Will it confuse her if I still rock her to sleep for naps if I just put
her in her crib for night sleeping?

I have to say that we're all (even dd) much happier now that she's
sleeping
more at night, but Ferber seems to think that dd won't need to be fed at
night and I know that she really needs that one feeding. She's nearly
seven
months old, but she's shown no interest in solids yet (we tried and gave
up).

I've been feeling like any of the choices are 'bad mother' choices since
crying it out seems cruel, but she gets more sleep. Letting her wake up as
often as she wants also seems cruel since she's miserable the next day
from
lack of sleep.

Any advice? (BTW, co-sleeping is not an option for us as DH and I don't
get
any sleep when she's in our bed.)

--
Melissa (in Los Angeles)
Mum to Elizabeth 4/13/03

I think if her usual feeding time is 3, then feeding her before that can be
avoided. Our pediatrician told us when Laszlo was about 9 months old that
there was no medical reason he shouldn't be able to sleep through the night.
He continued waking at 4:00-4:30 for some nursing...and I still gave into it
until he weaned at 13 months. If he woke up earlier than that, we'd let him
cry it out because otherwise we were getting no sleep.

I think it's a fine line between newborns needing to be fed very often and
not so newborns needing it less frequently as they grow and can hold off
longer. You have to really know your baby and every baby is different for
sure. Also consider teething, if she sounds miserable, it might be that
she's in pain...but if she's just "kvetching" then you can probably hold off
until her normal 3 am feed. For the record, we were also unable to cosleep,
our lil man saw our bed as a playground from very early on and only wanted
to play with us when he was in there. Maybe it will be different with
number two!

Not sure about the nap thing...when Laszlo was that age I took all the naps
he'd give me and they were usually in the stroller or in the car. Once in a
while he would get really tired at home and go in his crib, but he only
started to really take long naps once he turned a year old. Guess it has
something to do with his mobility or something...who knows?!?

Good luck!

- Jen

HollyLewis wrote:
There is no reason that pleasant rocking cannot be part of
the routine, as long as baby goes into bed somewhat awake.


Bwahahahahahaha.

I take it you never had a child who, if put into bed still awake, would only
become progressively MORE awake and MORE upset.

Got one. CERTAINLY wouldn't be a pleasant thing to put him down awake,
but life is grand (well, you know ;-) ) if I nurse him to sleep and
transfer him.

Course, that happened when he was ready for it, and it was easy, no
crying or stress.

Dawn

"HollyLewis" wrote in message
...
turned over and went to sleep without protest.) I'm just awfully tired of
hearing Ferber prononents claim that ALL babies can or should learn to go
to
sleep by themselves, having been put to bed "drowsy but awake." That
simply
DOES NOT WORK for some babies.

Very true. And some of the babies who can do this just fine STILL HAVE SLEEP
PROBLEMS ANYWAY.

I know y'all have heard this from me before. I just gotta toot the horn again,
you know ;-)

--Helen

"HollyLewis" wrote in message
...
There is no reason that pleasant rocking cannot be part of
the routine, as long as baby goes into bed somewhat awake.

Bwahahahahahaha.

I take it you never had a child who, if put into bed still awake, would
only
become progressively MORE awake and MORE upset.


Indeed I have. Hey Mom, get over here now and get me a breast in my mouth so
I can go to sleep. The whole point of the Ferber method is that Mom and
child endure the undoubted discomfort of learning a new way to get to
sleep -- on one's own. For many people this is not a decent reason to allow
your child to cry, as the car seat example would be. Others beleive that
sleep is of importance and put their proverbial foot down so to speak. Then
there is my blasted sister whose daughter liked her crib from the get go.

I can't help the OP much, since co-sleeping works well for us and DS never
developed a habit of waking frequently at night; I nursed him back to
sleep
when he did wake until he just naturally began to go back to sleep
without.

I guess I wish I could do that. The proximity of yet another snorting
snuffing body made me wacky.

(In fact, one night not too long ago, he did ask and I -- really, really
tired
at the time -- told him "the mama milk is sleeping." Much to my surprise,
he
turned over and went to sleep without protest.) I'm just awfully tired of
hearing Ferber prononents claim that ALL babies can or should learn to go
to
sleep by themselves, having been put to bed "drowsy but awake." That
simply
DOES NOT WORK for some babies.

Never said that and never will. You know your child and your family and
whether or not you should do any such thing. I am definitley not a a
one-size-fits-all idealist.


Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs