Bill Cosby - NAACP leaders stunned by remarks of prominent comedian

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:09:32 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

It's easy to see why Bill Cosby is disgusted because after
several generations many blacks have not learned how to pronounce
"police" and "President", etc.,

I await your evidence that Bill Cosby has any problem with how blacks
pronounce words.

whereas Hispanics and Asians learn in just a few seconds.

I await your evidence of this.

It's not just the pronouncing of the words but the terrible grammar.

"I can't even talk the way these people talk:
'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ...
And I blamed the kid until
I HEARD THE MOTHER TALK.
And then I HEARD THE FATHER TALK ...

Everybody knows it's important to
speak English except these knuckleheads. ..."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=38565

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:17:39 -0500, toto wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 05:39:18 GMT, Holger Dansk
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 17:28:30 -0500, toto wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:18:55 GMT, Holger Dansk
wrote:

Some things I just know, and don't have the remotest idea
when I learned them and from whom or what.

And, of course, you have no idea whether or not they are
really true or even whether or not they can be reasonably
deduced in a valid manner.

I know that they are true and rational. You mean you don't know
anything and have to look up everything?

No, I mean that I know where my ideas come from and how to tell
whether or not they are logically valid *and* I know what experiences
led me to my conclusions. If you don't, then you are flying blind or
you accept what authorities (most likely your parents and teachers)
told you on faith.

I had about the best parents and some of the best teachers in the world.
My parents were absolutely wonderful. My teachers in High School at
Darlington School in Rome, GA were magnificent and my professors at
Emory University and University of Georgia were very good. (For
instance, Roger Mudd, director of the History Channel, was my American
History professor at Darlington.)

Also, I have known and know a lot of wonderful people.

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:05:21 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:35:26 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
So what? "High" cultures the world over (and particularly in
Europe) had slavery (and children slaves) for thousands of years.

Well, we are talking about now. (today)

And that matters why, exactly?

Well, some cultures have learned that slavery is not a good thing.

And some have also learned that racism is not a good thing. You, apparently,
have not. So much for advancement, I guess.

Who else still has slavery
other than the blacks in Sudan and Mauritania?

People all over the world, hon. Legally or illegally, slavery
exists on every part of the globe. Deal with it.

So, you don't know of any other countries and/or cultures.

The US, as I've already stated, for starters:
======================
During 2001, at least 700,000 and potentially as many as 4 million men,
women and children worldwide were bought, sold, transported and held against
their will in slave-like conditions, according to the U.S. State Department.
In it's Second Annual Trafficking in Persons Report, the Department of State
finds that modern slave traders, or "person-traffickers" use threats,
intimidation and violence to force victims to engage in sex acts or to work
under conditions comparable to slavery for the traffickers' financial gain.

According to the report, women and children make up the overwhelming
majority of victims, typically being sold into the international sex trade
for prostitution, sex tourism and other commercial sexual services, and into
forced labor situations in sweatshops, construction sites and agricultural
settings. In other forms of servitude, children are abducted and forced to
fight for government military forces or rebel armies, and to act as domestic
servants and street beggars.

"Traffickers prey on the most vulnerable members of our human family,
violating their most basic rights, subjecting them to degradation and
misery," stated Secretary of State Colin Powell in presenting the report he
said displayed "the resolve of the entire US Government to stop this
appalling assault on the dignity of men, women and children."

While the report focuses on person-trafficking in eighty-nine other
countries, Secretary Powell reported that some 50,000 women and children are
trafficked annually for sexual exploitation into the United States. "Here
and abroad," said Powell, "the victims of trafficking toil under inhuman
conditions -- in brothels, sweatshops, fields and even in private homes."
====================
You can find the list of 89 countries at
http://usgovinfo.about.com/gi/dynami...www.state.gov/
g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2002/10678.htm. The list includes many European nations, as
well as the US and Canada.

Deal with it.

The Greeks had a great civilization. Much greater than the
Romans.

So, you view Republican democracy--which the Romans invented and
upon which
all modern systems of democracy are based--as not a particularly
great accomplishment?

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison studied Aristotle. Aristotle was
Greek.

Shrug Aristotle was not, however, a product of a democracy nor did he
believe democracy was the ideal form of government. That's not to say he
didn't have some ideas that were valuable to the establishment of modern
American democracy, but our system of representatives is much closer to the
Roman system of Republican democracy than it is to the Athenian system of
popular democracy, which only lasted for about 30 years anyway.

The Romans did not invent anything much. They were pretty
good engineers. The aqueducts were nice.

So, Republican democracy isn't "much of anything", eh? The Romans also
invented the newspaper. And dismissing their feats of engineering, which
includes pioneering the use of concrete, the sine qua non of modern building
techniques, is monumentally short-sighted. The Romans also invented the
novel.

Nonsense. From
http://www.worldbank.org/afr/finding...sh/find11.htm:
"Africa's rich and varied cultural heritage finds expression in a
wide
variety of arts and crafts. Cultural property is preserved in
paleontological, archaeological, historical, and sacred sites, as
well as in
museums, residences, and the daily life of the people. African
archaeology
traces the history of human evolution from its very beginning,
recording
such significant cultural achievements as the development and use
of tools,
the independent invention of agriculture,

Invented agriculture? Heheheheheheheheheh. Really????????? Did
they put a fish in the hole with corn seeds to make it grow
better like
the American aborigines?

Of course not, since they didn't *have* corn in Africa (or,
indeed, anywhere else in the so-called Old World). You've just
demonstrated, yet again, your ignorance.

They had corn in America.

Er, yeah. Which is why Africans wouldn't be putting fish in holes with corn.
They didn't HAVE corn, so they could hardly be planting it with fish or
anything else. (Are you always this stupid, or do you just pretend on
Usenet.

The rest of your rant is similar nonsense, since it is not based
on any fact whatsoever but on your pitiful rantings and ravings.
When you're willing to support your claim that Africans never
invented or did anything of value
with actual evidence of the facts, then maybe we'll sit up and
take notice.

If they produced something, please tell us what it was. We are
listening.

I already did. You dismissed my evidence. I'm waiting for yours. Go on.
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 4), and the Rising Son (Julian, 6)

Aurora (in the bathroom with her dad)--"It looks like an elephant, Daddy."
Me (later)--"You should feel flattered."

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:35:26 -0700, "Circe" wrote:
De factor slavery still exists in the US. This particular acticle
from February of this year discusses slavery/human bondage in
Florida:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/02/...rafficking.ap/. Of
course, it's not legal, but I'm not sure it's legal in Mauritania,
either.

That's silly. We're not talking about prostitution to pay off
debts, etc.

Oh, so it's okay to sell people into slavery if they owe you money? Gotcha.

They have the real thing in Mauritania and have had it
for thousands of years in Sudan. Lots of children slaves.

So what? "High" cultures the world over (and particularly in Europe) had
slavery (and children slaves) for thousands of years.

Well, we are talking about now. (today) Who else still has slavery
other than the blacks in Sudan and Mauritania?

See the cited article.

One of the reasons that the wealthy in the Greek and Roman culture (who produced most of the
art and literature that we admire today) *were* wealthy was because they
relied on slave labor to produce surplus goods and earn their money for
them.

The Greeks had a great civilization. Much greater than the Romans.
They gave us many, many things. Not just some art and some literature.
The art and literature was of minor importance compared with their other
contributions.

Her point is that the Greeks would not have done any of these things
without slavery, which gave them the wealth and free time to engage in
such endeavors.

But, that's about all the savages in Africa have produced for
thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

Nonsense. From http://www.worldbank.org/afr/finding...sh/find11.htm:
"Africa's rich and varied cultural heritage finds expression in a wide
variety of arts and crafts. Cultural property is preserved in
paleontological, archaeological, historical, and sacred sites, as well as in
museums, residences, and the daily life of the people. African archaeology
traces the history of human evolution from its very beginning, recording
such significant cultural achievements as the development and use of tools,
the independent invention of agriculture,

Invented agriculture? Heheheheheheheheheh. Really????????? Did they
put a fish in the hole with corn seeds to make it grow better like the
American aborigines?

long distance trade,

How long a distance? About as far as you could hear their drums?

There was trade between Africa and India

fine arts as illustrated by early rock paintings,

Were these those paintings inside of caves?

Those are mostly in Europe.

metalworking, and urban settlements.

I don't think they even knew what metal was.

They did, but most of Africa does not have good metal deposits.

Contemporary architecture,

Was that the mud and straw huts?

paintings, sculptures, textiles, and other
cultural artifacts draw on a rich variety of traditions, many of which are
still an integral part of daily life.

Let's not bull **** with a lot of meaningless rhetoric. Be specific.

Visit the Museum of African Art at the Smithsonian. You can see a
nice sampling of the exhibits at:
http://www.nmafa.si.edu/exhibits/currexhb.htm

Many thousands of cultural sites have been identified in Africa, often
clustered along coastal areas, river basins, or major transportation axes.

Any place that they had a tribal village was a cultural site.

Perhaps.

Many others may exist unknown to the outside world. Archaeological studies
conducted as part of project environmental assessments can provide valuable
information concerning the nature and distribution of human activity in the
area in ancient times.

Tell me what marvels were discovered in these digs.

See for yourself:
http://www.cyberpursuits.com/archeo/af-arch.asp

Such surveys have been conducted, for example, in the
Volta Basin, in the area to be flooded by the Kafue Dam in Zambia, as part
of the Lesotho Highlands Water Project, and for the Tuli Block Roads Project
in Botswana.

What in the world does a study have to do with what these savages did
other than run around naked raping and pillaging and hunting wildebeest?

Provide evidence that they did those things.

The UNESCO World Heritage Convention has been ratified by 28 African
countries, listed in the handbook. Under the convention, international
assistance can be secured by governments to facilitate the protection of
sites that have been registered as World Heritage Sites. Currently listed
World Cultural Heritage sites in Africa include the royal palaces of Abomey,
Benin; the rock churches of Ethiopia; Ashante traditional buildings in
Ghana; the ancient towns of Djenne and Timbuktu and the cliff of Mandiagara
in Mali; the island of Mozambique, Mozambique; Goree Island in Senegal; the
ruins of Kilwa Kisiwani and Songo Mnara, Tanzania; and Great Zimbabwe and
Khami Ruins National Monuments in Zimbabwe."

I'm afraid that there, evidently, was not anything in these sites of any
interest to anyone. If there had been then people would know about
them. What issues of National Geographic were all of these sites in?

June 1999
October 2001
are two issues that had articles about ancient African cultures.
September 1997 had an article on a Queen of Great Zimbabwe

But you can also look directly on the Unesco site for each of those
and several others:
http://whc.unesco.org/nwhc/pages/doc/mainf3.htm

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

Holger Dansk wrote:
Who else still has slavery
other than the blacks in Sudan and Mauritania?

People all over the world, hon. Legally or illegally, slavery exists on
every part of the globe. Deal with it.

So, you don't know of any other countries and/or cultures.

http://www.freetheslaves.net/slavery...48ceadef5 9e5
http://www.freetheslaves.net/slavery_today/faqs.html
http://www.freetheslaves.net/slavery...child_slavery/

all list examples from several countries.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

Holger Dansk wrote:
That's horrible. She has to show where someone else wrote it down for
people to believe her?

You also have to show references for people to believe you.

You don't.

Therefore we don't believe you.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:09:32 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

It's easy to see why Bill Cosby is disgusted because after
several generations many blacks have not learned how to pronounce
"police" and "President", etc.,

I await your evidence that Bill Cosby has any problem with how blacks
pronounce words.

whereas Hispanics and Asians learn in just a few seconds.

I await your evidence of this.

It's not just the pronouncing of the words but the terrible grammar.

Then don't say it's the pronunciation of "police" and "president",
which are YOUR bugaboos, and not Cosby's.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

Bob LeChevalier wrote:
But you can also look directly on the Unesco site for each of those
and several others:
http://whc.unesco.org/nwhc/pages/doc/mainf3.htm

Ah, Bob, you have so much more patience than I do!
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 4), and the Rising Son (Julian, 6)

Aurora (in the bathroom with her dad)--"It looks like an elephant, Daddy."
Me (later)--"You should feel flattered."

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 21:25:22 GMT, Holger Dansk
wrote:


I had about the best parents and some of the best teachers in the world.
My parents were absolutely wonderful. My teachers in High School at
Darlington School in Rome, GA were magnificent and my professors at
Emory University and University of Georgia were very good. (For
instance, Roger Mudd, director of the History Channel, was my American
History professor at Darlington.)

The fact that your parents and teachers were wonderful people doesn't
mean they actually were correct in their opinions of the world,
however.

I know many good people with whom I disagree on various issues.

It's a matter of questioning authority and making your own judgements.

Also, I have known and know a lot of wonderful people.

So have I, what is your point?


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 18:10:22 GMT, Holger Dansk
wrote:

So what? "High" cultures the world over (and particularly in Europe) had
slavery (and children slaves) for thousands of years.

Well, we are talking about now. (today) Who else still has slavery
other than the blacks in Sudan and Mauritania?

Any country with bonded labor has slavery. Bonded labor is simply
another name for it.

Today, slavery avoids the lable by not asserting legal ownership
of the slaves, but millions of economically and socially vulnerable
people are potential slaves creating a surplus of slave labor.

In the South in 1850, the average slave cost the equivalent of
$40,000 in today's dollars. The average slave today costs $90
and thus when s/he becomes ill and can no longer work, s/he is
dumped or killed.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits