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  #851  
Old June 20th 04, 03:27 AM
R. Steve Walz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jasper PNL Mfg Co, LTD wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Your posts consist merely of illogical cut-n-paste ad hominems.
They prove you're nothing but a little coward.

You do this because you're DESPERATELY terrified of taking me
on in structured and reasoned argument.


Is that why you snip the portions of posts...

-----------
I snip off your lies, I'll be doing much more of that.

While you embarrass yourself, since you're to STUPID to ever argue
the ISSUES logically, you DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW!!
Steve
  #852  
Old June 20th 04, 03:30 AM
Jasper PNL Mfg Co, LTD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
Info Junkie wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 04:47:15 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"

wrote:

Your posts consist merely of illogical cut-n-paste ad hominems.
They prove you're nothing but a little coward.


IOW Mr Walz, you now move onto ad hominem as you have been

unable/incapable of
backing your assertions with evidence

-------------------------
None of that is either needed or possible in this venue,
structural argument is vastly superior and prevents ****
like you from muddying issues with ad hominem.



PKB

typical


  #853  
Old June 20th 04, 03:44 AM
R. Steve Walz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jasper PNL Mfg Co, LTD wrote:

Info Junkie wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 04:47:15 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" wrote:


Your posts consist merely of illogical cut-n-paste ad hominems.
They prove you're nothing but a little coward.


IOW Mr Walz, you now move onto ad hominem as you have been unable/incapable of

backing your assertions with evidence
-------------------------
None of that is either needed or possible in this venue,


structural argument is vastly superior and prevents ****

like you from muddying issues with ad hominem.

Stick to issues instead of persons or be **** upon!!!!



and have been found to have lied multiple times.

--------------------------
I don't lie, that is merely your delusion and posturing propaganda.

It won't be allowed, and it won't work!

Stick to issues, not persons, or be **** upon!!!!

Bet you CAN'T!!!!! I BET you DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW!!


What I've "proven" Mr Walz, is that you've lied multiples times, run away when

challenged...
---------------------
This post now truncated for your lying ad hominems and repetition.


And without ever arguing issues from structure and logic.
Stick to issues or be **** upon wherever you go!!
Steve



PKB

typical
  #854  
Old July 3rd 04, 10:15 PM
Holger Dansk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
Holger Dansk wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 09:50:09 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 16:32:43 -0700, "Circe" wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 13:33:07 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Um, are you suggesting that Greek was the first language to have
vowels in it?

I'm not suggesting it but saying that it was.

Nonsense. It is *impossible* to speak without making vowel sounds.

Period.
Vowel sounds are a necessary requirement of human speech. And Greek is
hardly the first language invented by humans, let alone the first

language
to be represented by writing. Are you suggesting that the Egyptians (as

just
one example), who were capable of representing names like Osiris and
Amenhotep in hieroglyphs 2000 years before the Greek alphabet was

invented,
did not use vowel sounds in their languages or did not have words? Or

that
the Chinese, who have been writing their language down without

interruption
since 1200 BC (fully 400 years before Homer and the dissemination of the
Greek alphabet) do not now and did not when they began writing use vowels
when they spoke?

All I can say is that you are *sadly* misinformed.

Greek Alphabets

Apart from using the characters of the Greek alphabets as notations in
my maths and science classes, I don't know how to read Greek. (Sigh.
This is a real tragic.) Nor am I a linguist genius, since English is the
only language I know. English is the only language I can read and write.
(Judging by the number of spelling and grammar errors I had, I haven't
even fully mastered English.)

However, I can give you a brief history on the Greek alphabets.

Which is totally irrelevant. Language is primarily a spoken
phenomenon. Alphabets are merely one way to write down a language to
preserve it in readable form.

Every language of the world before Greek had vowels. Most of them had
NO way of being written, but they existed nonetheless. Some, the
Semitic languages, had ways of being written without vowels, because
if you know the language you can figure out the vowels, jst s ths
sntnc s ndrstndbl t mst ppl wh knw nglsh. Some, like Chinese, used
individual symbols for entire words, and thus displayed neither
consonants nor vowels. But written Chinese notwithstanding, Chinese
does have both consonants and vowels.


God help you. You are so messed up mentally. Get straightened out
quick. Life is too short. You will live it without even knowing what
was real and what was not. It seems that it may have been caused by too
much lying and being around people who do a lot.

--------------------------
People like you. You just got told about your ignorance again, so you
explode in insult instead of accepting your ignorance and trying to
become educated.
Steve


In what way did I get told, and told what? The ancient Greek civilization put
vowells in language. Of course, that means written language, Whathisname
keeps talking about noises that people made with their mouths from the
Neanderthal
on up. He has many loose screws. Most animals make noises and I suppose
he would say they are using vowells. That's laughable. Let's get real. We are
talking about written vowells here. That's the only kind you can have when you
are speaking about the first civilization to put vowells in language. We do not
have
CDs of people speaking thousands of years ago.

By the way, I have wondered why and how the Greeks were so far ahead of all of
the other civilizations in practically everything when they didn't have any
previous
civilizations to learn from. I think there is a possibility that they learned
from the Sumerians, the most ancient
of the civilizations, who may have had visitors from space (aliens) that they
learned from.
The Sumerians believed that the earth was round and that the planets (they said
there are 12)
revolved around the sun. Thats thousands of years before Galileo and other
astronomers
learned anything about it and before Columbus, in 1492 proved that the earth is
round.

How else could these ancient people figure out the solar system, etc. We just
recently discovered
that there are 10 planets instead of 9. Maybe there are 12.

You mention my getting educated. Does that mean that you are black. Black
people often stress and
talk about education as if it's some kind of medal that people get. A degree is
only a license to learn. They also
talk about reading as if they just learned how to read.

Holger


  #855  
Old July 4th 04, 01:20 AM
R. Steve Walz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Holger Dansk wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
God help you. You are so messed up mentally. Get straightened out
quick. Life is too short. You will live it without even knowing what
was real and what was not. It seems that it may have been caused by too
much lying and being around people who do a lot.

--------------------------
People like you. You just got told about your ignorance again, so you
explode in insult instead of accepting your ignorance and trying to
become educated.
Steve


In what way did I get told, and told what? The ancient Greek civilization put
vowells in language. Of course, that means written language, ----------------

One of many which did at about the same time. Other languages, like
the Asian languages, used syllabic symbols that had always included
their pronunciation of both. Yet other written scripts always had
vowels. You're a nutcake if you think Greeks were either amazingly
advanced or not a cultural backwater.


Whathisname
keeps talking about noises that people made with their mouths from the
Neanderthal
on up. He has many loose screws. Most animals make noises and I suppose
he would say they are using vowells. That's laughable. Let's get real. We are
talking about written vowells here.

---------------
Written vowels began as diacritical marks around consonantal symbols.
They were optional, as in early Greek and Hebrew.

Later the need to spread language widely to different dialects made
it necessary to spell the vowels out, to combat deviant pronunciations
in dialects. Prior to that written language was a shorthand using only
consonantal symbols.


That's the only kind you can have when you
are speaking about the first civilization to put vowells in language. -----------

Don't be stupid, all language has vowels, you can't even SPEAK
consonants without vowels!!


We do not have
CDs of people speaking thousands of years ago.

---------------------
No, we have treatises on speech written by those people who tell us
how they spoke, in many cases.


By the way, I have wondered why and how the Greeks were so far ahead of all of
the other civilizations in practically everything when they didn't have any
previous
civilizations to learn from.

-----------------------
You're nothing but a ****ing idiot. None of that is true.
They were neither far ahead, nor deprived of prior sources of culture.


I think there is a possibility that they learned
from the Sumerians, the most ancient
of the civilizations, who may have had visitors from space (aliens) that they
learned from.

-------------------
God, you're an insane ignorant idiot.


The Sumerians believed that the earth was round and that the planets (they said
there are 12)
revolved around the sun. Thats thousands of years before Galileo and other
astronomers
learned anything about it and before Columbus, in 1492 proved that the earth is
round.

--------------------------
The Greeks and Egyptians both knew the world was round, as did other
early societies.


How else could these ancient people figure out the solar system, etc. We just
recently discovered
that there are 10 planets instead of 9. Maybe there are 12.

----------------------------
You're an idiot.


You mention my getting educated. Does that mean that you are black.

-----------------
What would that have to do with it????


Black
people often stress and
talk about education as if it's some kind of medal that people get.

------------------
As do little ****-headed retards like YOU do. No, I'm European.
You're delusional!


A degree is only a license to learn.

-------------------
So get one, please!!
You clearly don't even have your learner's permit yet!


They also
talk about reading as if they just learned how to read.
Holger

------------------
You act like you know nearly nobody personally!!
You're a low-grade moron!
Steve
  #856  
Old July 4th 04, 04:36 AM
Bob LeChevalier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Holger Dansk" wrote:
Which is totally irrelevant. Language is primarily a spoken
phenomenon. Alphabets are merely one way to write down a language to
preserve it in readable form.

Every language of the world before Greek had vowels. Most of them had
NO way of being written, but they existed nonetheless. Some, the
Semitic languages, had ways of being written without vowels, because
if you know the language you can figure out the vowels, jst s ths
sntnc s ndrstndbl t mst ppl wh knw nglsh. Some, like Chinese, used
individual symbols for entire words, and thus displayed neither
consonants nor vowels. But written Chinese notwithstanding, Chinese
does have both consonants and vowels.

God help you. You are so messed up mentally. Get straightened out
quick. Life is too short. You will live it without even knowing what
was real and what was not. It seems that it may have been caused by too
much lying and being around people who do a lot.

--------------------------
People like you. You just got told about your ignorance again, so you
explode in insult instead of accepting your ignorance and trying to
become educated.


In what way did I get told, and told what? The ancient Greek civilization put
vowells in language.


No they did not.

Of course, that means written language,


Written language was originally just a means of recording spoken
language. How precisely it is recorded, and how precisely it NEEDS to
be recorded, depends on the language. Arabs do not need vowels in
their written language in order to read it; nor do Hebrew speakers.
Greek does, which is why they added vowels to their language. English
uses the vowels of the Roman alphabet, but to properly represent
English vowel sounds would require several more letters.

Whathisname
keeps talking about noises that people made with their mouths from the
Neanderthal on up.


I am talking about language, which is spoken language.

He has many loose screws. Most animals make noises and I suppose
he would say they are using vowells.


Since they are not speaking a language, I don't think that the
statement has meaning with regard to animals.

That's laughable. Let's get real. We are talking about written vowells here.


Which some languages need, and other languages do not.

That's the only kind you can have when you
are speaking about the first civilization to put vowells in language.


That's because the statement is nonsensical. If you had said they
were the first to put letters standing for vowels in their alphabet,
that would have been correct. But alphabets are not language.

We do not have CDs of people speaking thousands of years ago.


So? We don't need them to know that they had vowels in their
languages.

By the way, I have wondered why and how the Greeks were so far ahead of all of
the other civilizations in practically everything


They weren't. They were "ahead" in a couple of things that have been
much studied, but not necessarily "far ahead".

when they didn't have any previous civilizations to learn from.


They did. Indeed the Greeks weren't really just one civilization.
Many of the discoveries were made by people in Egypt, Turkey, and
Italy, all of which had been conquered by Alexander the Great, who was
Macedonian and not Greek per se (Alexander was EDUCATED by Greeks).

I think there is a possibility that they learned from the Sumerians, the most ancient
of the civilizations,


The Sumerians were NOT the most ancient of civilizations. Sumerian
civilization emerged sometime around 4000BC to 3500 BC. Before them,
in the same place, were other Mesopotamian cultures, including the
Susa culture that may go back to 5000BC. Predynastic Egyptian
civilization has been definitely dated back to 5000BC, with some
indications of a prior civilization as far back as 7000BC. Anatolia
(Turkey) has the Aslantepe Mound, the ruins of a city that existed
from 5000BC to 712BC.

The Greeks got the idea of an alphabet, and a lot of the letter forms
from the Phoenicians.

who may have had visitors from space (aliens) that they learned from.


You've been reading fairy tales. From what follows, apparently
Sitchin.

The Sumerians believed that the earth was round and that the planets (they said
there are 12) revolved around the sun.


The Sumerians believed no such thing.

http://www.forteantimes.com/articles...chintime.shtml
The theory revolves around one Sumerian seal, VA 243, which Sitchin
claims demonstrates the advanced astronomical knowledge passed on to
the Sumerians by the extraterrestrial Anunnaki. In it can be seen
what Sitchin claims to be our Sun, surrounded by 11 “planets”. The
Sumerians considered the Sun and Moon to be planets (hence the “12th
Planet” of the title), leaving one planet in our Solar System that is
unaccounted for – Nibiru or Planet X.

Michael Heiser identifies several problems with Sitchin’s
interpretation of this seal:

• From its inscription, it appears that the seal has nothing to do
with astronomy. Instead it reads: “Dubsiga, Ili-illat, your/his
servant”.

• The symbol Sitchin takes to be the Sun does not correspond to any
other Sun symbol in the hundreds of known Sumero-Mesopotamian
documents, seals or artworks. In fact it is a common star, for which
there was a clearly different symbol. The Sun is always either shown
as a disc with four arms and wavy lines, or just wavy lines emanating
from it. The symbol in VA 243 has only four arms, and no wavy lines,
in common with other representations of stars.

• No contemporary texts exist that suggest that
the Sumerians or Mesopotamians knew of more than five planets: Mars,
Venus, Jupiter, Saturn and Mercury.

Thats thousands of years before Galileo and other
astronomers learned anything about it and before Columbus, in 1492 proved that the earth is
round.


Columbus proved no such thing.

You might claim that Magellan's expedition proved it by going all the
way around it, but in reality it was proven independently by the
Greeks.

The earliest version of the modern solar system came from Aristarchus
of Samos around 200BC.

How else could these ancient people figure out the solar system, etc.


They didn't.

We just recently discovered
that there are 10 planets instead of 9.


11 actually. But the 9th, 10th, and 11th aren't necessarily
considered "planets" any more. They are more like planetoids, and
there are thousands of those between Mars and Jupiter.

You mention my getting educated. Does that mean that you are black.


It means that you are ignorant.

Black people often stress and
talk about education as if it's some kind of medal that people get.


Intelligent people talk about education as if it is something that
continues all one's life.

A degree is only a license to learn.


You apparently had your license suspended a long time ago, racist.

They also talk about reading as if they just learned how to read.


Better than talking about alphabets as if they were language.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
http://www.lojban.org
  #857  
Old July 4th 04, 01:39 PM
Holger Dansk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
Holger Dansk wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
God help you. You are so messed up mentally. Get straightened out
quick. Life is too short. You will live it without even knowing what
was real and what was not. It seems that it may have been caused by too
much lying and being around people who do a lot.
--------------------------
People like you. You just got told about your ignorance again, so you
explode in insult instead of accepting your ignorance and trying to
become educated.
Steve


In what way did I get told, and told what? The ancient Greek civilization

put
vowells in language. Of course, that means written

nguage, ----------------
One of many which did at about the same time. Other languages, like
the Asian languages, used syllabic symbols that had always included
their pronunciation of both. Yet other written scripts always had
vowels. You're a nutcake if you think Greeks were either amazingly
advanced or not a cultural backwater.


Whathisname
keeps talking about noises that people made with their mouths from the
Neanderthal
on up. He has many loose screws. Most animals make noises and I suppose
he would say they are using vowells. That's laughable. Let's get real. We

are
talking about written vowells here.

---------------
Written vowels began as diacritical marks around consonantal symbols.
They were optional, as in early Greek and Hebrew.

Later the need to spread language widely to different dialects made
it necessary to spell the vowels out, to combat deviant pronunciations
in dialects. Prior to that written language was a shorthand using only
consonantal symbols.


Look in any good encyclopedia or on any reliable web site and you will
see that the Greeks were the first to put vowels in language.


That's the only kind you can have when you
are speaking about the first civilization to put vowells in

language. -----------
Don't be stupid, all language has vowels, you can't even SPEAK
consonants without vowels!!


Again, we are not talking about all of the grunting and screeching and noise
that people made. A dog barking or a cat that meows can sound like a
vowell. We are talking about WRITTEN language. Please get that through
your noggin.

THE ALPHABET

"Like the Arabs and the Jews, Ancient Egyptians did not have vowels. Then, they
spelled out only the consonants of their language's words. To eliminate
ambiguities, the scribes used classifiers, which would say whether a given
consonantal cluster was representing a bird, a man, a building, etc.
The Egyptian consonants were adopted by the Phoenicians, who were sailors and
merchants, with little need for writing complex narratives or documents. All
they wanted was a writing system good enough to keep their books. Besides this,
their language had consonantal roots, that would yield the meaning even in the
absence of vowels. Therefore, they eliminated the classifiers altogether.

The Greeks spoke a language where vowels were part of the root. Without vowels,
one could not figure out the meaning of a word. Therefore, they were forced to
introduce symbols for the vowels and, in doing so, invented the modern
alphabetic writing system."

http://palaia.ufu.br/aesop/alpha.html

Holger


We do not have
CDs of people speaking thousands of years ago.

---------------------
No, we have treatises on speech written by those people who tell us
how they spoke, in many cases.


By the way, I have wondered why and how the Greeks were so far ahead of all

of
the other civilizations in practically everything when they didn't have any
previous
civilizations to learn from.

-----------------------
You're nothing but a ****ing idiot. None of that is true.
They were neither far ahead, nor deprived of prior sources of culture.


I think there is a possibility that they learned
from the Sumerians, the most ancient
of the civilizations, who may have had visitors from space (aliens) that

they
learned from.

-------------------
God, you're an insane ignorant idiot.


The Sumerians believed that the earth was round and that the planets (they

said
there are 12)
revolved around the sun. Thats thousands of years before Galileo and other
astronomers
learned anything about it and before Columbus, in 1492 proved that the earth

is
round.

--------------------------
The Greeks and Egyptians both knew the world was round, as did other
early societies.


How else could these ancient people figure out the solar system, etc. We

just
recently discovered
that there are 10 planets instead of 9. Maybe there are 12.

----------------------------
You're an idiot.


You mention my getting educated. Does that mean that you are black.

-----------------
What would that have to do with it????


Black
people often stress and
talk about education as if it's some kind of medal that people get.

------------------
As do little ****-headed retards like YOU do. No, I'm European.
You're delusional!


A degree is only a license to learn.

-------------------
So get one, please!!
You clearly don't even have your learner's permit yet!


They also
talk about reading as if they just learned how to read.
Holger

------------------
You act like you know nearly nobody personally!!
You're a low-grade moron!
Steve



  #858  
Old July 4th 04, 03:39 PM
Holger Dansk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bob LeChevalier" wrote in message
...
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 02:29:45 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 13:38:45 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

wrote:
Reading and writing were invented by whites and Asians.

Really? Got any names?

Guess those people in Upper Egypt weren't reading and writing.

South of the Sahara they were running around chasing wildebeest, etc.

What do you think they were doing in Northern Europe in 3000 BC?


Well, in about 2560 BC, north of the Sahara, (We were talking about
Africa, not northern Europe.)


You were talking about "whites and Asians". I want to know what you
think all the rest of the whites and Asians were doing while the Copts
(who were mixed race and possibly black, but were certainly NOT
"Caucasian" or "Aryan" or "Indo-European" which are common alternative
names for "whites") were doing their thing.


You are saying that I said that the Copts were white? Where did I say that?
They were
definitely not the stinking, mindless, evil, do-nothings-for-thousands-of-years
savages who
were always south of the Sahara. (Often called sub saharan.)

Holger

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
http://www.lojban.org



  #859  
Old July 4th 04, 03:46 PM
Holger Dansk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Karl" wrote in message
.. .
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 10:41:44 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:


Holger Dansk wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 02:29:45 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 13:38:45 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:


wrote:

Reading and writing were invented by whites and Asians.

Really? Got any names?

Guess those people in Upper Egypt weren't reading and writing.

South of the Sahara they were running around chasing wildebeest, etc.

What do you think they were doing in Northern Europe in 3000 BC?

Well, in about 2560 BC, north of the Sahara, (We were talking about
Africa, not northern Europe.)

You were talking about "whites and Asians". I want to know what you
think all the rest of the whites and Asians were doing while the Copts
(who were mixed race and possibly black, but were certainly NOT
"Caucasian" or "Aryan" or "Indo-European" which are common alternative
names for "whites") were doing their thing.



Well, they certainly were not playing with dung beetles and chasing
wildebeest.


You're right. Here in Northern Europe they were playing with stag
beetles and running away from bears.

Until the Romans brought civilisation, thousands of years later.

Most of civilized things about Roman culture came from the Greeks after the
Romans conquered Greece. The Romans were good at killing people and they
were good plumbers. In public restrooms in Rome everyone used the same sponge
on the end of a
stick to wipe there ass. It was kept emersed in a container containing saline
solution.

Holger


  #860  
Old July 4th 04, 04:11 PM
Holger Dansk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It seems like you just want to argue. The Greeks were maybe the first
civilization to
add vowels to their alphabet. Their language was written with their alphabet.

So what the hell is your problem? You just want to play around with semantics
and argue about
practically nothing. Try to remain rational. My dad once told me, "Very few if
any economist
are millionaires."

In other words, they, evidently, are unable to separate the essential things
from the unessential, or
the important from the unimportant. If you ramble around talking about
Shakespeare's spelling, etc.,
an all sorts of ramifications you will miss the point or the important thing or
things.

Stick with what you know---- Lojban

:-)

Holger


"Circe" wrote in message
news:UsJvc.38277$oi5.10973@fed1read07...
Holger Dansk wrote:
On 3 Jun 2004 11:12:35 -0500, (Herman
Rubin) wrote:
In article ,
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 13:33:07 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Um, are you suggesting that Greek was the first language to have
vowels in it?

I'm not suggesting it but saying that it was.

At most, you can claim that Greek was the first language to
have an ALPHABETIC system of writing with all vowels being
EXPLICIT. One could make a case for this, but at least the
Indian alphabet independently introduced vowels, and I do
not believe that the Persian alphabet of the Behistun Rock,
which does have vowels, is based on the earlier Semitic one.
At least Grotefend did not find that to be the case when he
deciphered the inscription.


snip quote which has no relevance to the subject at hand

These knuckleheads keep talking about spoken language which began
about 30,000 years ago.


Blink Bob and I (and Herman) have referred to languages like Hebrew,
Sanskrit, and Chinese. We have not remotely suggested that any of those
languages is 30,000 years old.

Bob and I *have* stated that vowel sounds are a component of all human
languages and have therefore presumably been present in human language since
its earliest development. There is *no* exstant human language that does not
consist of both consonant and vowel sounds, whether it was ever committed to
a native writing system by its speakers. It is highly unlikely that any
human system of verbal communication could have been produced without the
existence of vowel sounds given that no language exists now that does so.
Whether or not the vowel sounds are represented in *writing* has nothing,
therefore, to do with whether vowel sounds are present in language.
(Hawaiian was never committed to a native writing system, for example, yet
it clearly has plenty of vowel sounds in it!)

I wonder if they even know what a vowel
is? For their information, the modern English vowels are a, e, i, o,
and u.


Wrong again. You confuse the symbol with the symbolized. A vowel is a kind
of sound, distinct from a consonantal sound; the letters you have written
are merely symbols for representing those sounds. Moreover, in English, the
alphabetic symbols for the vowels do not have a one-to-one correspondence
with the *sounds* they can represent: a can be either an "ah" sound or an
"ay" sound; e can be "eh" or "ee" or unpronounced, and so on.

Oh, and you forgot "sometimes y".

These are letters that are written, and they should have learned
how to write some letters in the first grade.


And we all learned to say them years before we learned to write them. Ergo,
there is no relationship between *written* vowels and *spoken* ones. Ergo,
you are full of ****.

But then, we all knew that already.
--
Be well, Barbara

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman




 




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