Bill Cosby - NAACP leaders stunned by remarks of prominent comedian

FACE wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:10:50 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

It might have been a Greek, or a Phoenician, or
even a dark-skinned Copt or Nubian.

I have always heard that the coptic written language has no vowels and
it is long dead...nobody speaks it any more. So I wonder how they
(You know they, don't you?) determined that it was Ra and not Re or
Ru. I have heard it pronounced 'Rah' and 'Ray' but still spelled in
translation as Ra.

I think that the following answers most of your question, though it is
indirect on the "how they know"
http://www.friesian.com/egypt.htm

The "how" is that they look at what Greek letters were borrowed into
the Coptic alphabet to represent vowel sounds (whereupon "r" started
being written as "ra", and then use the knowledge of Greek
pronunciation of that era. Since Coptic remained a spoken language
until the last couple of hundred years, and is still a liturgical
language (and one dialect is arguably still a spoken language - see
the cite below), it is more like Latin than like ancient Hebrew or
Sumerian in providing us a way of knowing what vowels were used. The
vowels may have changed from some earlier time, and indeed 6000 years
ago, "Ra" might have been pronounced "Ree" or "Roo", but vowel changes
are not random, so those sort of changes are unlikely.

http://www.geocities.com/remenkimi/stshenouda1.htm

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 04:21:30 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

FACE wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:10:50 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:


So I wonder how they
(You know they, don't you?) determined that it was Ra and not Re or
Ru. I have heard it pronounced 'Rah' and 'Ray' but still spelled in
translation as Ra.

I think that the following answers most of your question, though it is
indirect on the "how they know"
http://www.friesian.com/egypt.htm

The "how" is that they look at what Greek letters were borrowed into
the Coptic alphabet

http://www.geocities.com/remenkimi/stshenouda1.htm

lojbab


Thanks.


FACE

Bob LeChevalier wrote in
:

FACE wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:10:50 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

It might have been a Greek, or a Phoenician, or
even a dark-skinned Copt or Nubian.

I have always heard that the coptic written language has no vowels and
it is long dead...nobody speaks it any more. So I wonder how they
(You know they, don't you?) determined that it was Ra and not Re or
Ru. I have heard it pronounced 'Rah' and 'Ray' but still spelled in
translation as Ra.

I think that the following answers most of your question, though it is
indirect on the "how they know"
http://www.friesian.com/egypt.htm

The "how" is that they look at what Greek letters were borrowed into
the Coptic alphabet to represent vowel sounds (whereupon "r" started
being written as "ra", and then use the knowledge of Greek
pronunciation of that era. Since Coptic remained a spoken language
until the last couple of hundred years, and is still a liturgical
language (and one dialect is arguably still a spoken language - see
the cite below), it is more like Latin than like ancient Hebrew or
Sumerian in providing us a way of knowing what vowels were used. The
vowels may have changed from some earlier time, and indeed 6000 years
ago, "Ra" might have been pronounced "Ree" or "Roo", but vowel changes
are not random, so those sort of changes are unlikely.

http://www.geocities.com/remenkimi/stshenouda1.htm

lojbab

Hahahahahaha. Yeah, listen to Bob "Usenet's Biggest Idiot" LeChevalier
because he knows everything about everything, especially languages.
Heheheheheh.

Check out this stupid "logical language group" Bob "Usenet's Biggest
Idiot" LeChevalier founded:

www.lojban.org

Hahahahahaha. What a geek LeChump-a-liar is! He spent his entire life
trying to come up with some stupid new language.

Hey Bob, Esparanto failed, you know. Because it was stupid! Just like
you and your stupid langauge! Hahahahahahaha.

Flib norb gooup shlix?

Hahahahahaha.

What a moron!

Who's yer daddy, boy?!

King of SCAA

"Fletch F. Fletch" wrote in message
...
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 09:50:09 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 16:32:43 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 13:33:07 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Um, are you suggesting that Greek was the first language to have
vowels in it?

I'm not suggesting it but saying that it was.

Nonsense. It is *impossible* to speak without making vowel sounds.
Period. Vowel sounds are a necessary requirement of human speech.
And Greek is hardly the first language invented by humans, let
alone the first language to be represented by writing. Are you
suggesting that the Egyptians (as just one example), who were
capable of representing names like Osiris and Amenhotep in
hieroglyphs 2000 years before the Greek alphabet was invented, did
not use vowel sounds in their languages or did not have words? Or
that the Chinese, who have been writing their language down
without interruption since 1200 BC (fully 400 years before Homer
and the dissemination of the Greek alphabet) do not now and did
not when they began writing use vowels when they spoke?

All I can say is that you are *sadly* misinformed.

Greek Alphabets

Apart from using the characters of the Greek alphabets as notations
in my maths and science classes, I don't know how to read Greek.
(Sigh. This is a real tragic.) Nor am I a linguist genius, since
English is the only language I know. English is the only language I
can read and write. (Judging by the number of spelling and grammar
errors I had, I haven't even fully mastered English.)

However, I can give you a brief history on the Greek alphabets.

Which is totally irrelevant. Language is primarily a spoken
phenomenon. Alphabets are merely one way to write down a language to
preserve it in readable form.

Every language of the world before Greek had vowels. Most of them
had NO way of being written, but they existed nonetheless. Some, the
Semitic languages, had ways of being written without vowels, because
if you know the language you can figure out the vowels, jst s ths
sntnc s ndrstndbl t mst ppl wh knw nglsh. Some, like Chinese, used
individual symbols for entire words, and thus displayed neither
consonants nor vowels. But written Chinese notwithstanding, Chinese
does have both consonants and vowels.

God help you. You are so messed up mentally. Get straightened out
quick. Life is too short. You will live it without even knowing what
was real and what was not. It seems that it may have been caused by
too much lying and being around people who do a lot. After a while,
you get to where you don't know what is real and what is not. In
other words you get out of contact with reality. Get away from the
people that you have been coming in contact with. Talk to a
psychologist and/or a psychiatrist that knows what they are doing.
Not one of these damn fool black nitwits that went to the University
of Wedowee, or whatever. Make sure they got their degree/degrees
from a school like Emory Univ, Duke, Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth,
Princeton, Univ of GA, etc., etc. Get at least 3 recommendations
from physicians and 3 from others.

You 'forgot' to address his point. I suspect you have realized how
amateurish your original 'vowel' ideas were. This is a good thing. No need
to base your beliefs on nonsense.

He keeps rambling on and on about the sounds that people made and calls them
vowels. Well, lions and monkeys and dogs and hyenas, etc., all make sounds
and he could call them using vowels.

If you are going to have a conversation about vowels being used in a language
then you have to know what the vowels are and you have to be able to write
the language and that requires some kind of alphabet. The Greeks added vowels
to the alphabet. Why does what'shisname find that so hard to understand? If
he's
your buddy see if you can get him to quit talking about sounds that people made
and
talk about the Greek alphabet. The Greeks didn't grunt and growl and snort like
savages.
They spoke.

Holger

Slainte,
Fletch

"Bob LeChevalier" wrote in message
...
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 16:32:43 -0700, "Circe" wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 13:33:07 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Um, are you suggesting that Greek was the first language to have
vowels in it?

I'm not suggesting it but saying that it was.

Nonsense. It is *impossible* to speak without making vowel sounds. Period.
Vowel sounds are a necessary requirement of human speech. And Greek is
hardly the first language invented by humans, let alone the first language
to be represented by writing. Are you suggesting that the Egyptians (as just
one example), who were capable of representing names like Osiris and
Amenhotep in hieroglyphs 2000 years before the Greek alphabet was invented,
did not use vowel sounds in their languages or did not have words? Or that
the Chinese, who have been writing their language down without interruption
since 1200 BC (fully 400 years before Homer and the dissemination of the
Greek alphabet) do not now and did not when they began writing use vowels
when they spoke?

All I can say is that you are *sadly* misinformed.

Greek Alphabets

Apart from using the characters of the Greek alphabets as notations in
my maths and science classes, I don't know how to read Greek. (Sigh.
This is a real tragic.) Nor am I a linguist genius, since English is the
only language I know. English is the only language I can read and write.
(Judging by the number of spelling and grammar errors I had, I haven't
even fully mastered English.)

However, I can give you a brief history on the Greek alphabets.

Which is totally irrelevant. Language is primarily a spoken
phenomenon. Alphabets are merely one way to write down a language to
preserve it in readable form.

Every language of the world before Greek had vowels. Most of them had
NO way of being written, but they existed nonetheless.

Well, we are not talking about grunts and snorts and growls that people made.
We are speaking of the probably the first people to put vowels in the alphabet.
They were written down. I know savages can not read and write. Most of them
in America still can't. The Greeks could read and write very, very well.
Whereas most
of the dumb people in the rest of the world had not done so yet, they put vowels
in the
alphabet by writing them down, and not by grunting and snorting and growling,
etc. You can't
get anywhere with language by growling and snorting a screeching and hissing and
farting, etc.

Holger

Some, the Semitic languages, had ways of being written without vowels, because
if you know the language you can figure out the vowels, jst s ths
sntnc s ndrstndbl t mst ppl wh knw nglsh. Some, like Chinese, used
individual symbols for entire words, and thus displayed neither
consonants nor vowels. But written Chinese notwithstanding, Chinese
does have both consonants and vowels.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
Holger Dansk wrote:

So you are black and all of this arguing has been because of the sub saharan
savages and the fact that the Greeks were not black. Give me strength. :-)
---------------
We're not black.
You're an ignorant racist little piece of ****.


Well,
I finally know where you are coming from. You are one of these people in
America
that Bill Cosby is talking about and you are upset.
-------------------
We're not black, and Cosby is ignorant.


Well, I haven't told you about the American negro have I? I just told you
about
the ones in Africa that are savages in every sense of the word.
--------------------------
Since you've never studied such a thing, you're BOTH wrong AND lying!

There you go about "studying". You black people are all hung up on "reading"
telling people
that you have studied and can read and telling people that you graduated from
high school and telling people
that you have a degree from the University of Wedowee, etc. It's fine to be
able to read and write, if
you can, and great to have a degree from a good institution. (Not Morehous or
that one over on Ashby-Jackson
street.) But, try not to talk about it all the time. I know you're proud of
it. Probably the only person for
hundreds of years who got a degree in your family. It's fine to be proud.

There's something you may not know. Some of the most ignorant fools in the
world have a degree or degrees.
The world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination are
king.

Holger


Why didn't you say from the very beginning that you have a seething hatred
for
white people who tell the truth about blacks?
------------------
Merely your lie.


Listen to Bill Cosby. He is not
white
and he will tell you the truth about blacks and he's talking about the ones
here
in America,
and not the savages in Africa. I'm sure Bill would not even want to discuss
those in Africa.
Holger
--------------------------
Cosby is an ignorant racist piece of crap.

There you go, doing exactly what Cosby has asked you not to do, using "racist"
as an excuse for shortcomings.
Do you sit on the curb saying "racist" and "muhfugger" all day?
Steve

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
Holger Dansk wrote:

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 13:33:07 -0700, "Circe" wrote:

Um, are you suggesting that Greek was the first language to have vowels in
it?

I'm not suggesting it but saying that it was.

Holger
-------------------
You need a course in linguistics - written vowels were merely written
first by the Indians and Greeks, and before that written language was
merely a form of consonantal shorthand for speech. It doesn't mean
people didn't SAY the vowels!!!

We are talking about vowels that are written down. After all, animals growl and
grunt and screech and bark and make all kinds of sounds you could call vowels.

However, we don't get ridiculous and say that the dinosaurs were the first to
put
vowels in language because, although they didn't write them down, as you say,
"It doesn't mean they didn't SAY the vowels!!!"

The Greeks wrote them down. Now, I'm getting tired of saying that.

Holger

Steve

"Fletch F. Fletch" wrote in message
...
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 03:45:22 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 13:33:07 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:

Um, are you suggesting that Greek was the first language to have
vowels in it?

I'm not suggesting it but saying that it was.

Holger
-------------------
You need a course in linguistics - written vowels were merely written
first by the Indians and Greeks, and before that written language was
merely a form of consonantal shorthand for speech. It doesn't mean
people didn't SAY the vowels!!!
Steve

Eureka!!!!!!!!!!!! There you go!!!!!!!!!! The Greeks were the first
to put the vowels in the alphabet!!!!! You finally got it!!!!!!!

Yet another tread-worn forensic device: declare victory while being
slaughtered.

But did you finally get the idea that the conclusions you were drawing were
based on a complete misunderstanding of this whole subject?

From the beginning I have been talking about the Greeks puting vowels in
language,
and of course, that meant in their alphabet too since language is written with
letters
or symbols in an alphabet.

Now, please lets not get into noises that the dinosaurs made were vowels and
people
who didn't know how to spell and people who wrote with pictures, and on and on
and on.
We've wandered far from the subject with all of that enough don't you think?

Holger

Slainte,
Fletch

"Bob LeChevalier" wrote in message
...
"Holger Dansk" wrote:
Your opinion is worthless.

Well, all I would have to do is put my opinion on my web site, and since it
would be in writing

Why would your website be more "in writing" than your ignorant Usenet
posts, idiot?

and all of you blacks who have recently learned to read seem to
think that, if it's in writing, then it's true, you would believe my
opinions.

Such illogic and false assumptions are why you are labeled subhuman
racist slime.

I warn you, maybe 50% of the web sites are not reliable. There's all kinds
of
doo doo out there.

Correct.

Nothing like having the education and intelligence to sort out valid
information from crackpot theories like those of Sitchin.

If I were you, I wouldn't let people know that you were assaociated with
Logical
Language Group.

I am.

That's like saying that you went to University of Wdowee, etc., or that
you like negro phonics or whatever that damn fool crap that the Washin

But it is not like your repetitious admission that you are a subhuman
racist slime.

You really like that "slime" word don't you? It's just sticky mud or a slippery
substance.
Was there a lot of slime in your ghetto?

Oh, it was ebonics that I was trying to think of that some damn fool in a school
in Washington
state wanted to begin teaching. Instead of teaching them the proper way to
speak, as Bill Cosby
suggest this damn fool woman wanted to create another language in which they
spoke like
poor ass dumb blacks. Imagine that.

Oh, by the way, if I'm black what have I said that is racist.

So far as a civilization being far superior to all of the rest, not anyone even
came close to the
anchient Greeks. If that's racist then fine. It's the truth.

Holger

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

"Fletch F. Fletch" wrote in message
...
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 12:33:32 GMT, "Fletch F. Fletch"
wrote:

R. Steve Walz wrote:
greccogirl wrote:

Oreo is simply an insult you use when a person of color doesn't
agree with you.
---------------------
When they are more racist than *I* am it GIVES me the right!
Steve

Actually, you have the right irrespective of that. But it shows how
full of crap you are when you say it has nothing to do with race
whatsoever.

It just now occurred to me. You must be some of Ike Newkirk's Sunday
morning listeners that call in almost every Sunday.

Not a clue who that is. Never called a radio show of any stripe. Listen to
sports radio almost exclusively.

Ike Newkirk has a radio talk show on WQXI AM radio every Sunday morning from
6:00AM until 9:00AM. The calls are not screened. It's called "Open Line".
That's
790 on the dial.

Holger

Slainte,
Fletch