Bill Cosby - NAACP leaders stunned by remarks of prominent comedian

Christopher Weeks wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

What makes it incorrect? What makes the lack of a slouch superior?

The same thing that makes walking with a drooping gait not the proper
way to walk unless you are trying to look like a clown.

Who are YOU to define what is "proper" and what isn't "proper" in
walking or any other activity, racist?

I'm someone who knows the proper way to speak and walk and sit and
behave. I grew up in a home and all of the family knew these things and
associated primarily with other people who do.

So you can't explain it even the slightest bit?

Do you even see that this is completely circular?

Chris
--------------
He's an ijit, he has no ability to think, only regurgitate.
Steve

Holger Dansk wrote:
I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.

I rather doubt that Cosby intended to refer to their pronunciation.
That is why I asked you what "this way" was. You obviously think that
they have to speak with your concept of grammar AND pronunciation, and
I rather doubt that Cosby would agree about the latter.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

Holger Dansk wrote:
And, being the master, you should speak and walk and sit and behave
correctly and not sound like an idiot when you speak.

Take your own advice. The primary way one sounds like an idiot is NOT
with unusual grammar or pronunciation, but from drooling CONTENT,
which is about all you issue.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

Holger Dansk wrote:
Who are YOU to define what is "proper" and what isn't "proper" in
walking or any other activity, racist?

I'm someone who knows the proper way to speak and walk and sit and
behave.

Who says?

I grew up in a home and all of the family knew these things and
associated primarily with other people who do.

Or maybe all of you are close-minded racist idiots who wouldn't know a
clue if you saw one.

You stand up straight when you walk.

Does he? How do you know?

Everyone should stand up straight when they walk.

Why?

Should a wheelchair-bound person do so? Are they mentally deficient
because they don't?

But your statement was a claim that he did, not that he should.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:36:57 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:
It is not "the truth", because "correctness" of pronunciation is not
something that is "true" or "false" but rather is merely opinion.

Now, do you realize what you are saying? Do you know why we have
dictionaries showing pronunciation?

Yes. You clearly do not.

Dictionaries are generally descriptive and not prescriptive - they
indicate how people use and pronounce words, not what "correct" is.
Someone using a dictionary as a standard for correctness is merely
saying that it is correct because a lot of other people say it that
way.

So you think that correct pronunciation is only an opinion?

Yep.

Wrong. In dictionaries, it is the
most accepted pronunciation that has evolved over a long period of time.

"most accepted" = "most common opinion".

Only an opinion.

But it isn't necessarily true. Dictionaries don't even necessarily
provide a single pronunciation as shown in the "nuclear" example cited
earlier.

Do you think that right and wrong are not facts but opinions?

Yep.

If so, it was people like you who committed the atrocities in the Iraq
prisons.

Nope.

Right and wrong are not opinions. They are absolutes.

Nope.

Unfortunately, the son-of-a-bitches who mistreated the Iraq prisoners,
evidently, had no value system

Of course they did, just not a value system that you approve of. It
was probably something like yours in fact - they relegated the Iraqis
to a lower status than themselves, like you relegate the blacks to a
lower status than yourself.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:48:54 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:
They often put on the gloves and stick their finger up a rectum
to feel the prostate, etc. There is nothing holy about a doctor. Over
100,000 people each year are killed by the mistakes of doctors and
nurses.

I was referring to the word, which is not considered a word "properly"
used by an educated person such as a doctor, no matter where he sticks
his hand.

That is utterly ridiculous. Doctors would not think anything about
using the word, "crap". Many do not refer to your testicles and your
scrotum, but call it your cod sack. Doctors are not sissies.

I've never even HEARD the phrase "cod sack" before. And if any doctor
used the word "crap" in front of a kid, there are a lot of people that
would walk out then and there, and probably a couple that would try to
go after his license.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/register.php?do=signup
...The Student Doctor Network members are not permitted to harass or
"flame" other members. Please do not post or transmit any unlawful,
harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar,
obscene, profane, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise
objectionable material of any kind,

http://aaps.forums.commentary.net/fo...KEN=86318795&&
Profanity, obscene language, abusive attacks on any individual,
advocacy of murder or other evil acts, or other uncivil material,
will not be tolerated.

http://www.eric.vcu.edu/pub/policies...sofConduct.pdf
[VCU Health System Medical Staff Standards of Conduct Policy]
V. Unprofessional Conduct
A. The behaviors set forth below are not all-inclusive, but are
intended as examples of unprofessional conduct for which corrective actions may be warranted.
1. Disruptive behavior including use of offensive or abusive language,
threatening or coercing others, and acts of aggression


You think that "crap" is proper English used by doctors.

Of course, it's fine. Do you think they are so stilted that they say,
"They just have fecal matter coming out of their mouths."?

If indeed it is fecal matter.


That would
be a stilted, affected remark. Doctors are usually not like old fuddy
duddy old maids.

If they talk like that, they probably won't be a doctor very long.
See "unprofessional conduct" above.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:48:42 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sun, 23 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever
listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful
person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian.

I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about
education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that
while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were
performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context
as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his
remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets
that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his
comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in
exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about
special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was
just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and
offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on
a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with
elements of both.

Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search
engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without
the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event
on them. He was serious, of course.

I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.


Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of
"Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing
execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do.

Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom
I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition
when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard.
We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics
world or that they don't know.

Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen,
the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING.

He does not say, "all blacks".


I wasn't talking about Cosby. I was talking about people like you.


They make choices and the reasons for those choices are many.

I work with one woman (a support staff member, not a teacher) who
cannot speak formal English. It grates on my nerves after a while
because she talks nonstop. But interestingly, her three children are
all quite skilled at formal English. That's all I've ever heard
them speak when they come to visit. All are well educated and
successful too. Not a loser in the bunch. So she and her husband
must have done something right.

We are not saying that all blacks can not speak English, but just a lot
of them.

Frankly, from the "linguistic" examples you've given us, I don't see
how you'd even know.

The examples I gave are just the tip of the iceberg. It's general
knowledge how a large number of black people abuse our language. It
does not require any special ability to know. Children notice it and
will tell you.

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

On Sun, 23 May 2004 02:04:48 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever
listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful
person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian.

I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about
education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that
while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were
performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context
as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his
remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets
that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his
comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in
exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about
special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was
just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and
offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on
a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with
elements of both.

Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search
engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without
the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event
on them. He was serious, of course.

I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.


Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of
"Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing
execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do.

Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom
I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition
when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard.
We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics
world or that they don't know.

Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen,
the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING.
-----------------------
Sure they are, you just don't like how they do it.
Steve

I think Cosby would tell you that they probably don't even know what
good parenting is.

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

On Sun, 23 May 2004 00:23:12 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.

I rather doubt that Cosby intended to refer to their pronunciation.
That is why I asked you what "this way" was. You obviously think that
they have to speak with your concept of grammar AND pronunciation, and
I rather doubt that Cosby would agree about the latter.

Of course he would. You have to be blind and deaf not to see and know
that they not only mispronounce words, but also, use very poor grammar.

lojbab

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm

On Sun, 23 May 2004 00:26:50 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
And, being the master, you should speak and walk and sit and behave
correctly and not sound like an idiot when you speak.

Take your own advice. The primary way one sounds like an idiot is NOT
with unusual grammar or pronunciation, but from drooling CONTENT,
which is about all you issue.

Imagine how much their lives would change for the better if they would
just take Cosby's advice and get these things corrected. Their whole
attitude could change and hopefully, they would stay out of prison.

It would be so much better than sitting on the sidewalk saying
muhfugger, etc.

lojbab

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm