teenager breaking curfew

In article ,
Chris says...

Unless my friend was suicidal or my mother agreed (knowing my friend's
circumstances), our heart-to-heart could wait until morning.

No. Actually, no. And not because of some drama over suicide.

These sorts of things are sooo much a matter of the moment. (Something for
parents to keep in mind too, regarding when their kids, esp. teens, decide to
open up! Don't think it's going to be the same if you reschedule!)

As for
running around Denver all night just to see what turns up, no way, not
for me, and having been chased (me in a group with 3 other girls) by
strangers on an after-dark, I wouldn't let my children either. You may
not find trouble, but trouble may just very well find you. It is as
simple as that.

Are you actually implying that the children that never had a curfew
don't go hogwild, stay out late, partying? Puhlease. They go hogwild
because that is the freshman way, period. College isn't perceived only
as a place to learn. LMAO. The only difference is that those with
stricter parents find more creative ways to bypass the rules while
still at home, which every parent knows happens. lol.

Only a matter of being a freshman? No. Freshmen vary like everyone else.

The feeling I get from you is that curfews are necessary, but wink wink kids
will get around them, and hey, once emancipated, everyone goes hogwild anyway.
I think it's being overly restricted that creates that sort of outlook, frankly.


I was one of those working and supporting myself fresh out of
highschool, so I don't need any lecture there. As a result, I didn't
have the time to stay out all night, as I'm sure 18-year-old parents
didn't either. lol.

That's exactly right, stupid decisions are made all of the time by 18-
year-olds, and as someone else here mentioned, there have been studies
conducted on their perception of/capability of adequately gauging
cause/effect, actions/consequences, reasoning skills, etc. And at 18,
the legal consequences of even stealing a yard ornament are much more
serious than when you were 16 and can result in a rap sheet. lol. The
biological mother of my cousin thought it would be okay to put her in
her bassinet next to the furnace as a newborn so she could go out and
party in the generation past at the age of 18. lol. Heck, she must've
been thinking "No big deal. Baby is going to be sleeping anyway, and
in case she wakes up to sooth herself back to sleep, the furnace noise
or just being in the basement won't give me away." @@ While there are
creepy parents that do this very thing as mature adults, well into
their 20's, can't say for certain this woman would have had she
another few years under her belt. Some college kids go hogwild
overboard only until they see it is affecting their grades or studies,
and others don't give a rip, and neither is based on whether or not
they had a later curfew than another or none at all.

So, your solution is - curfews until they're 35, then watch them go hogwild
because that's what people do??


18 isn't a magic number - some kids may display more readiness for
freedom than others earlier and some just plain later, and it isn't a
light switch that gets flipped on their 18th birthday either. Again,
we disagree. I find it a bit ridiculous that you were able to turn
anyone's response to the initial poster into all of this.

No, it's not a magic number, no more than 36 months is for potty training, or
sex for being ready to learn to read. But it's so widely observed in our
cultural history to be a time that pretty much encompasses being ready to be an
adult for a huge enough proportion of the population that, yes, a bright line
has been drawn there. Leaving those who will never grow up to their follies.

But you point to such follies as a reason to keep a tight rein... until when?

Banty

On Mar 12, 1:01�pm, Banty wrote:
In article ,
Chris says...



Unless my friend was suicidal or my mother agreed (knowing my friend's
circumstances), our heart-to-heart could wait until morning.

No. �Actually, no. �And not because of some drama over suicide.

These sorts of things are sooo much a matter of the moment. �(Something for
parents to keep in mind too, regarding when their kids, esp. teens, decide to
open up! �Don't think it's going to be the same if you reschedule!)

As for
running around Denver all night just to see what turns up, no way, not
for me, and having been chased (me in a group with 3 other girls) by
strangers on an after-dark, I wouldn't let my children either. You may
not find trouble, but trouble may just very well find you. It is as
simple as that.

Are you actually implying that the children that never had a curfew
don't go hogwild, stay out late, partying? Puhlease. They go hogwild
because that is the freshman way, period. College isn't perceived only
as a place to learn. LMAO. The only difference is that those with
stricter parents find more creative ways to bypass the rules while
still at home, which every parent knows happens. lol.

Only a matter of being a freshman? �No. �Freshmen vary like everyone else. �

The feeling I get from you is that curfews are necessary, but wink wink kids
will get around them, and hey, once emancipated, everyone goes hogwild anyway.
I think it's being overly restricted that creates that sort of outlook, frankly.







I was one of those working and supporting myself fresh out of
highschool, so I don't need any lecture there. As a result, I didn't
have the time to stay out all night, as I'm sure 18-year-old parents
didn't either. lol.

That's exactly right, stupid decisions are made all of the time by 18-
year-olds, and as someone else here mentioned, there have been studies
conducted on their perception of/capability of adequately gauging
cause/effect, actions/consequences, reasoning skills, etc. And at 18,
the legal consequences of even stealing a yard ornament are much more
serious than when you were 16 and can result in a rap sheet. lol. The
biological mother of my cousin thought it would be okay to put her in
her bassinet next to the furnace as a newborn so she could go out and
party in the generation past at the age of 18. lol. Heck, she must've
been thinking "No big deal. Baby is going to be sleeping anyway, and
in case she wakes up to sooth herself back to sleep, the furnace noise
or just being in the basement won't give me away." @@ While there are
creepy parents that do this very thing as mature adults, well into
their 20's, can't say for certain this woman would have had she
another few years under her belt. Some college kids go hogwild
overboard only until they see it is affecting their grades or studies,
and others don't give a rip, and neither is based on whether or not
they had a later curfew than another or none at all.

So, your solution is - curfews until they're 35, then watch them go hogwild
because that's what people do??



18 isn't a magic number - some kids may display more readiness for
freedom than others earlier and some just plain later, and it isn't a
light switch that gets flipped on their 18th birthday either. Again,
we disagree. I find it a bit ridiculous that you were able to turn
anyone's response to the initial poster into all of this.

No, it's not a magic number, no more than 36 months is for potty training, or
sex �for being ready to learn to read. �But it's so widely observed in our
cultural history to be a time that pretty much encompasses being ready to be an
adult for a huge enough proportion of the population that, yes, a bright line
has been drawn there. �Leaving those who will never grow up to their follies.

But you point to such follies as a reason to keep a tight rein... until when?

Banty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What on earth are you after here? Have you not been able to glean
anything from any posts? The answers you seek are right there. I don't
feel the need to repeat myself.

On Mar 12, 11:17*am, Banty wrote:
In article ,
Chris says...







Sit in an empty Red Rocks amphitheater with a group of close friends, play=
ing in
flashlights shone onto the rocks, then wait for the sun to come up?

Naw...erase that.

Return two and a half hours' drive from a ski trip, after a late dinner wi=
th a
friend's family. =EF=BF=BDWith the 22 year old big sister of said friend a=
t the wheel?

Naw...erase that.

Guess what Banty - even parents that set curfews would be 99% prone to
extending them here and there and for the type of controlled examples
you cite -- mine did. If I didn't have a planned activity, then curfew
was as it was. *Your last question reveals a lot more about you than
you know. Yes, Beliavsky, you are correct -- it was meant to reveal
that I did still have a curfew despite being what most referred to as
a "model" teenager "good" girl.

The first example was not "controlled". *("Say Dad, can me and Grant and Margot
run around the environs of Denver all night, just seeing what turns up?") *The
second case, perhaps, but what a curfew meant, when it did limit me, was mostly
stuff like - a friend of mine are having a heart to heart, but that didn't
really start until another mutual friend left at 10:15, and it's an 11:00 curfew
for me, and I have to leave at 10:45, so the heart to heart gets cut short..
Stuff along that line. *And, yes, a lot of local concerts and stuff that I
couldn't make it back from in time so I didn't go. *(Multiple continuous
exceptions don't a curfew make, so they weren't made.) *More reasons to mark off
the calendar until I could be gone for good. *Not the best start to a good adult
relationship with my family of origin.

This is why a lot of young adults go hogwild the freshmen year of college.
There's a heck of a lot of deferred exploration and self-discovery. *And just
plain fun.

Those are factors. Another reason is that many students have few
responsibilities, with housing and food being provided, and many
courses of study are not that demanding.

The Department of Labor conducted an American Time Use Survey and got
the following results for college students:
http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/ch6.txt . The college students are
spending about 3 hours a day on "educational activities", and I
believe that includes time spent attending class.


"Time use on an average weekday for full-time university and college
students

Hours
Sleeping 8.4
Leisure and sports 3.9
Working 2.8
Educational activities 3.2
Other 2.3
Traveling 1.6
Eating and drinking 1.0
Grooming 0.8

Total 24.0

NOTE: Data include individuals, ages 15 to 49, who were enrolled full
time at a
university or college. Data include non-holiday weekdays and are an
average for
2003-06."

Chris wrote in

ups.com:

I don't consider a curfew micromanaging. I made better
decisions based on the worries I served up to my parents
every day under their roof. My parents didn't just tell me
"No." We discussed the "why" and their reasoning, and even
if I didn't agree, sometimes their "no" won out.

no, a curfew isn't necessarily micromanaging, but many kids
are scheduled for almost every waking moment, from school to
sports to music to dance to... and *that* is micromanaging.
if a kid gets to teen years being told what to do & when,
when is s/he going to learn to schedule himself?

lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

Beliavsky wrote in

oups.com:

I think Chris's general point, that is almost never a need
to be out and about at 2 AM, and that there are
considerable risks to doing so, is perfectly valid.

almost never... when i was 15/16, i used to sleepwalk. i
quite often woke up 5 miles from home in the cemetary. i think
walking back home was a pretty good reason to be out at 2 or 3
am
besides that though, 2 am is a great time to look at the
stars. many lights are out by then & the view of the sky is
better. it's a good time to track owls. it's nice for
contemplation. i don't sleepwalk anymore, but i am an
insomniac. i get a lot done sewing or knitting or reading in
the wee hours when there's no one else to bother me.

lee some people just don't understand the night
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

enigma wrote:

no, a curfew isn't necessarily micromanaging, but many kids
are scheduled for almost every waking moment, from school to
sports to music to dance to... and *that* is micromanaging.
if a kid gets to teen years being told what to do & when,
when is s/he going to learn to schedule himself?

On the other hand, some of those kids with crazy
schedules *are* scheduling themselves. That may be the
problem! ;-) Some might have thought me an overscheduled
child, but I was having a blast.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"enigma" wrote in message
. ..
"Nikki" wrote in
:

I've been reading this thread with interest. My kids are
little yet so not sure what I'll do. I imagine I'll have
some house rules. Frankly I'm very worried about it
because at least two of my kids will turn 19yo before they
graduate high school. My dh isn't worried at all. I think
he was the type to self regulate. Me - not so much.

don't you already have 'house rules'? as the kids get more
freedom to do things, they also get rules they have to abide
by,

Well sure. That is what I meant. I imagine that even though my senior boys
will be 18yo I'll have a house rule that they be in by some pre-determined
time if other arrangments haven't been made/agreed on. I guess that is
the evil curfew.

it's part of the kids growing up. they get a privelege, but
they almost always come with 'rules' to facilitate
coordination with the rest of the family.

Yes but it seems like some people are saying that at 18yo the are all grown
up so my rules and privelegs are no longer appropriate. I disagree with
that.

out to play (Boo gets 4-6 pages of homework at the beginning
of the week to be turned in Friday. he gets to choose how &
when it gets done. sometimes he does it all the day he gets
it, sometimes he does the math one day & the language the
next, but it's all done well before it's due)

I wish you could bottle that up. I could give a little to Hunter


--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06

"Nikki" wrote in
news:scudnfw8zJo5A0XanZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@prairiewave. com:

"enigma" wrote in message
. ..
out to play (Boo gets 4-6 pages of homework at the
beginning of the week to be turned in Friday. he gets to
choose how & when it gets done. sometimes he does it all
the day he gets it, sometimes he does the math one day &
the language the next, but it's all done well before it's
due)

I wish you could bottle that up. I could give a little to
Hunter

well, the math section takes him virtually no time. his
teacher doesn't require that he show his work, so he doesn't
feel he needs to write anything but the answers. *i* want him
to show his work, because he's getting into more complicated
work (multiplication with carrying, division) and even though
he can do it in his head, he needs to learn to show what he's
doing so that he can find where he goes wrong as it gets more
involved.
he hates *anything* to do with writing. it's difficult for
him. he does type out email, but needs to learn keyboarding
(he just got his own laptop from gramdpa). he is starting to
enjoy drawing, at least to the extent of trying to draw out
plans for his building projects,
i am impressed that he's already grasped the time management
needed to get his homework done before it's due though. i
still think homework for 2nd graders is silly, but at least
his school isn't like the local public school with 8=10 pages
of busywork *every night*, including stuff to do over the
weekend. that's just rediculous.

lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

"enigma" wrote in message
but if you add in micromanaging a child's entire free time up
until he gets set loose at college or off to his own
apartment, *then* you can run into some seriously out-of-
control problems, because the kid has no idea how to act when
not being told what to do.

I definitely agree with that. I admit I had a curfew until I moved out and
that was about at 23 yrs old. I moved out because I accidently fell alseep
at my boyfriends house two nights in a row and didn't come in until 6 am. I
should have called, but my mom would have no part of that. My mom definitely
was a micromanager and she hated the fact that I did what I wanted to do and
not what she thought I should do.

I think I am doing a complete 180 compared to the way I was raised. I have
decided to not have certain things taboo (alcohol, drugs, sex) to even talk
about. I talk about everything with the girls and I hope this serves me good
so things are not a mystery to them.

--
Sue (mom to three girls)

On Mar 11, 1:05*pm, enigma wrote:
Beliavsky wrote
oups.com:

My overall point is that many parents, especially in more
socially conservative countries, try to structure the lives
of their children, even their adult children, to reduce the
chance of bad things happening. American parents tned to
place a higher value on independence at an earlier age and
learning from experience. Both attitudes have some merit,
and the challenge is to find the right mix.

*i think if one is careful to instill their values into their
children from birth onwards to puberty (when parents become
rather stupid all of the sudden g), without being overly
controlling or micromanaging their children's lives, then one
is likely to have teens that are sensible about their own
limits.
*now, my parents didn't like the people i was associating with
as a 15/16 year old (i was doing peercouncellingwith
substance abusers), so they set a 'curfew' that stated i had
to be in the yard by 9pm. since that meant that my friends
were also welcome as long as no excessive noise was happening,
it was not a rule that chafed. it also proved to my parents
that my friends, despite some poor choices, were not bad kids.

You are a bright woman who may not have needed a curfew when growing
up. What about the teen-age substance abusers you tried to help? Where
were their parents?


lee having an FBI tapped phone does nothing for a teen's
social life, BTW